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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 2:31:39 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

[hijack]

Julia,

The consensus over yonder is that your avatar is hot. It would be a perfect tool for the hypnosis. thread.

[/as you were]

~porcelaine



Thanks, that was why I took it down over here....lol (blushes)

_____________________________

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 3:28:26 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

You are a strong woman who knows what you want in another yet at one time you considered yourself submissive.


The genesis of this thread.... I met someone recently that is strong, successful, ambitious, extremely educated... etc etc etc... and I felt submissive to him...

I suppose I am wondering why I feel so unsubmissive to almost everyone, but once in a while someone I perceive as "more than" me gets to me... if that makes sense...
I can understand this...I know that for me, my dominance is often perked by someone I perceive as "less than" me. Someone weaker, less successful, not much drive, little education beyond high school...that type.

~tongue firmly in cheek~ 

How does that sound coming from the dominant side?  Probably not all that nice and yet, it is the same thing as what has been said, only in reverse.

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 4:09:11 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

How does that sound coming from the dominant side?  Probably not all that nice and yet, it is the same thing as what has been said, only in reverse.


I never said less than...

And if I said exactly what I was talking about I would sound a bit full of myself, so I won't...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 4:17:15 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

As a fun thought experiment - why don't we try to look at these forums as a whole as a 'pack', with its own 'alphas' and 'betas'? 

Looked at this way, I see some clear followers and clear leaders.  Are the former subs and the latter Dom/mes?

Nope.  Barely any correlation whatsoever, I'd say. 

But, then, I'm just a mild-mannered malesub, with no real opinion of my own, and waiting to defer to someone else's leadership - so what would I know?


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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 4:29:50 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

As a fun thought experiment - why don't we try to look at these forums as a whole as a 'pack', with its own 'alphas' and 'betas'? 

Looked at this way, I see some clear followers and clear leaders.  Are the former subs and the latter Dom/mes?

Nope.  Barely any correlation whatsoever, I'd say. 

But, then, I'm just a mild-mannered malesub, with no real opinion of my own, and waiting to defer to someone else's leadership - so what would I know?


I'll have to tell you a funny story about the portion in bold sometime. Rest assured, I'll protect you!

~super porcelaine


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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 6:39:41 PM   
Andalusite


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Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		CD, I agree that it comes across as "you have to earn my submission," sometimes in ways that would come across quite poorly if expressed from the other side.  That's part of why I dislike the Female Superiority and some Gorean Natural Order philosophies (specifically, the ones that express that women are innately inferior to men).  I don't submit to someone because he is better or more intelligent or physically stronger than I am, but because something in his personality compels me to.  I wouldn't get involved with anyone who was stupid, or who I felt made poor decisions and lacked common sense, whether or not there was a power dynamic.  

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 6:40:03 PM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline 		THANK YOU for this post. Perfect. I studied anthropology too a bit, and I get intolerably frustrated at the exaggerated, misinformed EvoPsych hype as well as general primate behavior analogies.... it's like this liberal hippie trend to minimize the differences between our closest primate relations and us (oh wait, now they're discovering we may be more related to the peaceful, horny bonobos anyway) ..Strangely, more conservative-minded people (I loathe to say 'thinkers') tend to also use EvoPsych ideas to back their misanthropic, misogynist ideas.

You make a good point about our society changing so drastically in a short time as comparison with chimps. I always say, I'll vote for giving animals the same rights as we inalienably have once any of them have built a pyramid, skyscraper, or written a novel.


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 7:11:34 PM   
realwhiteknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Some anthropologists study primates and human evolution.


Yup, they're called "biological anthropologists" (as opposed to cultural anthropologists, who typically focus on human culture)... and some folks who get their degrees in anthropology (either biological or cultural) continue their studies and become primatologists, focusing on the anthropological and social development of primate species.

Zoologists, in general, focus their studies on non-primate life -- primates seem to be in a separate, distinct class from a research perspective, with many social traits that indicate cultural development, but without a lasting culture.

Calla



Don't forget linguistics and archaeology!


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 7:20:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Don't forget linguistics and archaeology!


I love linguistic anthropology,but the archaeology? I am way too much of a girl and I do not much care for digging in the dirt.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/23/2010 7:21:08 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 7:29:10 PM   
realwhiteknight


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Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Don't forget linguistics and archaeology!


I love linguistic anthropology,but the archaeology? I am way too much of a girl and I do not much care for digging in the dirt.


Haha, I wanted to be an archaeologist since I was about 13 (I gave up that dream in college for writing).. A new thing I've been studying is mycology (fungi), I found some lichens in my backyard a few weeks ago ...so I guess I like digging in the dirt. But I was always such a tomboy. Hell I'm 33 and I started skateboarding again last summer!

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 7:36:36 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Haha, I wanted to be an archaeologist since I was about 13 (I gave up that dream in college for writing).. A new thing I've been studying is mycology (fungi), I found some lichens in my backyard a few weeks ago ...so I guess I like digging in the dirt. But I was always such a tomboy. Hell I'm 33 and I started skateboarding again last summer!


I loved playing in the dirt too, until I was on a dig. Doing that in over 95 degree heat, with no running water in the camp, having my waist length hair covered in dirt, my pours filled with dirt, and no way to get clean for 3 weeks felt more like being on a chain gang than being a student of archaeology.... I never got over it

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 7:44:46 PM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

playing
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Haha, I wanted to be an archaeologist since I was about 13 (I gave up that dream in college for writing).. A new thing I've been studying is mycology (fungi), I found some lichens in my backyard a few weeks ago ...so I guess I like digging in the dirt. But I was always such a tomboy. Hell I'm 33 and I started skateboarding again last summer!


I loved playing in the dirt too, until I was on a dig. Doing that in over 95 degree heat, with no running water in the camp, having my waist length hair covered in dirt, my pours filled with dirt, and no way to get clean for 3 weeks felt more like being on a chain gang than being a student of archaeology.... I never got over it


Yeah, that's what I've heard about archaeology over and over again- especially if you're deep in a pit, you're bending and uncomfortable in a tight space, it gets you sore and everything too..Where was this btw?

Edited to sound less dirty...no pun unintended heh

< Message edited by realwhiteknight -- 7/23/2010 7:46:36 PM >

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 8:22:15 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Where was this btw?


I was up in the foothills of California studying California Paleo-Indian sites

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to realwhiteknight)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 9:03:21 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		When I was little one my father and I would often head out to the back pasture and look for arrowheads. I am by no means belittling your profession but wondering if you have the same joy of discovery I had when I would find an arrowhead. I imagined the Indian that shot the arrow and wondered if he was hunting deer or buffalo and what his life was like so long ago.

Otherwise I envy you and think it would be a great way to make a living and could be a job to love.

Butch

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 9:35:28 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

When I was little one my father and I would often head out to the back pasture and look for arrowheads. I am by no means belittling your profession but wondering if you have the same joy of discovery I had when I would find an arrowhead. I imagined the Indian that shot the arrow and wondered if he was hunting deer or buffalo and what his life was like so long ago.

Otherwise I envy you and think it would be a great way to make a living and could be a job to love.

Butch


I love my job, but then again I don't do the digging in the dirt stuff....

I love antiques though,because I imagine the history of old things, and the stories behind them

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 10:42:16 PM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Where was this btw?


I was up in the foothills of California studying California Paleo-Indian sites


Awesome, what part of California and what were the names of the tribes in the area if you don't mind me asking? I know nothing about west coast Indians, all I can remember is stuff about the pacific northwest ones..


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/23/2010 10:48:47 PM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

When I was little one my father and I would often head out to the back pasture and look for arrowheads. I am by no means belittling your profession but wondering if you have the same joy of discovery I had when I would find an arrowhead. I imagined the Indian that shot the arrow and wondered if he was hunting deer or buffalo and what his life was like so long ago.

Otherwise I envy you and think it would be a great way to make a living and could be a job to love.

Butch


Oh we went to this dig site for a field trip once when I was real young and we could buy authentic (I think) arrowheads there. It was awesome. Also, when I was about 12 my dad and I found this perfectly diamond-shaped piece of quartz near the edge of a lake on Long Island.. he said it was a tomahawk, but I'm not sure..to this day I don't know what it was! Because tomahawks are usually double-edged right? like an axe? I looked online and could never find anything *sigh* Anyway, when I was 12, I got hooked. Anthropology is awesome, not to sound like a teenage nerd!


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/24/2010 4:21:46 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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quote:

ORIGINAL: realwhiteknight

You make a good point about our society changing so drastically in a short time as comparison with chimps. I always say, I'll vote for giving animals the same rights as we inalienably have once any of them have built a pyramid, skyscraper, or written a novel.



Heh.  Ironically enough, the differences between humans and non-humans came up in a big way when I was studying political ecology and later teaching a university course on the moral philosophy of animal rights and welfare.  The gist of the argument was that it was, tactically, a very bad move to overdo the comparisons between humans and non-humans, the better to advance the 'animal rights' case.  I very much was, and am, in favour of greater rights and better welfare for non-human species. 

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/24/2010 4:52:05 AM   
realwhiteknight


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Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: realwhiteknight

You make a good point about our society changing so drastically in a short time as comparison with chimps. I always say, I'll vote for giving animals the same rights as we inalienably have once any of them have built a pyramid, skyscraper, or written a novel.



Heh.  Ironically enough, the differences between humans and non-humans came up in a big way when I was studying political ecology and later teaching a university course on the moral philosophy of animal rights and welfare.  The gist of the argument was that it was, tactically, a very bad move to overdo the comparisons between humans and non-humans, the better to advance the 'animal rights' case.  I very much was, and am, in favour of greater rights and better welfare for non-human species. 


Aha! lol I get what you're saying and it's an interesting reaction from people. Well, don't think that I'm some cold amoral animal-hater just because I don't think they 'have equal rights' like I said earlier, since I meant this sort of tongue in cheek and conceptually. I don't believe animals shouldn't be treated as well as possible, or that they don't deserve more rights than they do have now. It's just that I think it's silly when people say things like 'animals are really just like us' or 'animals are more loyal than people' or 'we're really just animals ourselves' yada yada yada. Conceptually, they are not as complex or 'able' as us, so I personally feel they aren't essentially, individually as 'important' as us humans, that's all.


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/24/2010 5:03:39 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

You are a strong woman who knows what you want in another yet at one time you considered yourself submissive.


The genesis of this thread.... I met someone recently that is strong, successful, ambitious, extremely educated... etc etc etc... and I felt submissive to him...

I suppose I am wondering why I feel so unsubmissive to almost everyone, but once in a while someone I perceive as "more than" me gets to me... if that makes sense...
I can understand this...I know that for me, my dominance is often perked by someone I perceive as "less than" me. Someone weaker, less successful, not much drive, little education beyond high school...that type.

~tongue firmly in cheek~ 

How does that sound coming from the dominant side?  Probably not all that nice and yet, it is the same thing as what has been said, only in reverse.
CD...have I told you lately that I adore you???

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Profile   Post #: 120
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