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RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 7:47:28 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		All justice systems can be a joke. Because they are dispensed by humans with emotions and thought processes and, yes, in some cases, bank accounts.

Do i think the sentence was wrong? Yes, but im speaking from the standpoint of a mother who could never see myself killing my child. Then again, i didnt live this mother's life, nor she mine.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 8:26:55 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But can't you see where the mention of her religion in this context could very well be tying her religion with killing her daughter... I see it and can see where owner59 could see it.

Damn a lot of seeing here but you get my idea don’t you?

Butch


59 wasn't claiming the article was all about her religion, he was claiming that was the only reason Kirata posted the thread. So he could show us how evil those muslims are. I called him on his bullshit and you jumped into the mix. Now I have read a lot of posts by Kirata over the years and he seems to be very intelligent and has never shown signs of the kind of behavior that 59 is accusing him of. So I am going to ignore the rantings of 59 and give him the benefit of the doubt when he says that was not his intention.



I also respect Kirata and his views...I was just surprised he was so offended by owner59's challenge and wanting to dismiss it as irrelevant. I don't know the past interaction between them perhaps that has more to do with it then the actual posts.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 8:41:33 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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If Kirata had chosen to cut and paste the parts of the story regarding PTSS or the Bosnian war or Canadian justice,I would have commented based on that.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/17/2010 8:51:41 AM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 8:48:16 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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"Not as fucked up as the crime, the sentence, or as the other children are going to be by the whole affair."

Sure,not as fucked up.....


richie`s moral comass is based not on how good or correct he can be,but on whether it`s not as fucked up as homicide.




< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/17/2010 8:57:38 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 9:29:35 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So you think I'm wrong, or is raw reality a bit too much for you?

Or are you just redirecting some frustration over having to clean your screen and keyboard?

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 7/17/2010 9:30:24 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 9:37:22 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBoItR59REQ





Something less boring than rich.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 10:12:41 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So you support letting a woman who murdered her child walk away if it suits your political agenda?

Is that from the talking points emails?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 10:49:26 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Well,that was less boring.

Never said that.

Just minus the Islamophobia and extremism cons like you bring to the discussion.

Thanks for confirming my initial hunch.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/17/2010 10:51:10 AM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 10:50:28 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


Never said that.

Just minus the Islamophobia and extremism cons like you bring to the discussion.

Thanks for confirming my initial hunch.



thanks for confirming that you will read anything you want into what someone doesnt say if it suits your paranoia and agenda.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 10:57:23 AM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You have not told me why her religion was even mentioned in the story. If you can give me one good reason it was important to the story I'll agree religion has nothing to do with it.

I excerpted the part of the story that was relevant to my question, namely, the report of her description of the incident and the contradicting forensic evidence. I did not make any comment connecting her religion to either the event or her sentence, and I fail to see how it could be connected. I asked you how you imagine that someone might do so, since you seem to think there is some nefarious implication in it being mentioned, but you never answered. I'll ask again. If you think there's some connection being implied between her religion and the incident, what could it possibly be? After all, it's your idea not mine. I haven't a clue.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/17/2010 11:01:02 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 11:02:41 AM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		If you check in pretty much when someone is saying 'bored, boring, bored', the emotion connected to it undercurrent is usually rage.

I am not sure why Owner59 keeps bringing 'boring' into this.

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RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 11:29:13 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

The link provided by Lucy explains the basics of the terrible background the family experienced in war-torn Chechnya. This latest tragedy is a continuation of that violence. I would not want to be a juror in this trial. How can someone who has not endured such horrific violence know the mind-set of the survivors?


Her mind-set should not not be a factor in determining sentencing unless she is judged to be mentally incompetent.

The reality is women routinely are judged less harshly than men because society views them as incapable of such horrific acts, and even when it is shown that those acts indisputably occurred there is a rush to blame mitigating circumstances.

So tell me honestly that you would have made this same post if this had been a man who strangled his 14-year old daughter.



We rarely agree,rml. But I echo your sentiments loud and clear.

We see it in the US all the time. I am limited in my knowledge of sentencing of Canadian woman, but I do know that woman: Karla Homolka, only got 12 years and is now walking free after helping her hubby sexually assault and kill her sister and other woman. So I suspect it is similar for the reasons you state.

            mbmbn

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 11:36:38 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		They are just hypersensitive, and itching to throw the race slander at every opportunity, Kirata. It isn't like the nature of the crime, and the lenience of the sentence would be worth a look otherwise...



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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 12:04:18 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You have not told me why her religion was even mentioned in the story. If you can give me one good reason it was important to the story I'll agree religion has nothing to do with it.

I excerpted the part of the story that was relevant to my question, namely, the report of her description of the incident and the contradicting forensic evidence. I did not make any comment connecting her religion to either the event or her sentence, and I fail to see how it could be connected. I asked you how you imagine that someone might do so, since you seem to think there is some nefarious implication in it being mentioned, but you never answered. I'll ask again. If you think there's some connection being implied between her religion and the incident, what could it possibly be? After all, it's your idea not mine. I haven't a clue.

K.


The absence of clear,lift-able prints from a knife handle doesn`t prove she didn`t handle it.

I don`t think planting a weapon is out of the question but you have to go on the evidence one has and must consider every aggravating circumstance and every mitigating circumstance.

Even the politically incorrect ones.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/17/2010 12:05:51 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 12:32:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I excerpted the part of the story that was relevant to my question, namely, the report of her description of the incident and the contradicting forensic evidence. I did not make any comment connecting her religion to either the event or her sentence, and I fail to see how it could be connected. I asked you how you imagine that someone might do so, since you seem to think there is some nefarious implication in it being mentioned, but you never answered. I'll ask again. If you think there's some connection being implied between her religion and the incident, what could it possibly be? After all, it's your idea not mine. I haven't a clue.

K.[/font][/size]



We seem to be talking in circles. The very fact that her religion is even mentioned in the story has a meaning if only to the author of the story. Think about it... You are a reporter writing a story on a mother murdering her daughter. Would their religion be the first thing that popped into your mind and you write it in the first paragraph of your story...unless it had an importance to the story...I think not.

Now I can speculate about what the reporter was thinking...a few examples below;

1.) There has been other instances where Muslim parents murdered their children because of the children’s actions. One very public case here in Missouri where a devout Muslim mother and father stabbed their daughter to death because she was dating a black man. Perhaps he was thinking of that.

2.) Perhaps the reporter was thinking the mother, as a devout religious person, was given a lighter sentence by the judge.

3.) Maybe the reporter mentioned the religion because to him it would be more unusual for a religious person to of committed this crime.

I could go on but I am just giving reasonable ideas as to why the reporter thought religion was important to tie to this tragedy.

I don’t hold to any of the above examples particularly but I can see where there could be some discussion as to the reason for religion being mentioned in the first place without anger at anyone.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/17/2010 12:46:11 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 12:54:54 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

My thoughts?

You or one of your buddys will try to imply her religion had something to do with the homicide or with her sentence.


Well damn, Owner, credit where due, wrong target but a good shot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

1.) There has been other instances where Muslim parents murdered their children because of the children’s actions. One very public case here in Missouri where a devout Muslim mother and father stabbed their daughter to death because she was dating a black man. Perhaps he was thinking of that.

2.) Perhaps the reporter was thinking the mother, as a devout religious person, was given a lighter sentence by the judge.

3.) Maybe the reporter mentioned the religion because to him it would be more unusual for a religious person to of committed this crime.

I could go on but I am just giving reasonable ideas as to why the reporter thought religion was important to tie to this tragedy.


I'll let you two take it from here.

K.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 1:02:58 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No need... story over...your thread...your censure…don’t let me interrupt your party.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 1:35:24 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No need... story over...your thread...your censure…don’t let me interrupt your party.

Not at all, no censure. Now that we're no longer casting aspersions around about what "other folks" think, and you have (finally) presented some concrete ideas relating to why the mother's religion might bear on the situation, I have no problem with it if anyone wants to take the thread in that direction.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/17/2010 1:48:01 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 1:46:18 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

If you check in pretty much when someone is saying 'bored, boring, bored', the emotion connected to it undercurrent is usually rage.

I am not sure why Owner59 keeps bringing 'boring' into this.

Bored with rich,not the subject.It`s a compelling one.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Canada, oh Canada - 7/17/2010 1:46:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		The author mentions that it took place in the room where the "mother" did her praying. It doesn't say if mom was actually praying when the deceased allegedly came in with the alleged knife.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 60
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