Definition (Full Version)

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RiotGirl -> Definition (4/16/2006 6:59:38 PM)

Oh of the many things that has bothered me on this board is everyones right to define things how they choose to define them.  What suits them.  What they feel it means.  Generally my response to "it means what ever you wish it to mean" just has me shake my head and say "i'm a purple elephant" or some such.  Personally, i think its retarded.  Facts are facts, no two which ways there is about.  Define fact?  GO look it up in the dictionary.  There will be the accepted term of fact.  Facts are facts.  Words have definitions.  Generally, common definitions.  Even, ohmygosh, that can travel across languages (granted the word is different.. but hi is hi is hi, no matter how you say it)  So no matter how you say hi, the definition of Hi is still the same.  Get my point? 

Arg, and i suppose its abit of a rant, which isnt ment to be!  But i just find it absolutely stupid for me to be able to say "i'm a purple elephant" for it to mean that i am a submissive into puppy play with a brown nose and 3 legs

i think we do it to try and steer clear of the all dreaded labels.. oooh labels.  i'm a purple elephant.   Honestly folks, thats excatly what we do.  When we decide its okay to go and define anything any which way we want to.  For example the key words Master, Dom, Domme, slave, Mistress, sub, Top, bottom.  Purple elephant!!

i had a conversation with my father in law, or fiance in law, or as i asked him later (would that be Master in law?)  Rather it was a debate.  On the word Sorry.  He hurt himself and i said "i'm sorry" so of course it got to "you didnt do it" and i'm like i know.  lolz  his defintion didnt match mine.  Hence the confusion.  So after debating awhile and him telling me the defintion of sorry was "to take responsiblity, to have done something.. ect" and mine being "to show sympathy ect", no matter which way i put it, he wouldnt relent.  So what'd we do.

Look in the dictionary. 

One of the most interesting things he said during the conversation in a round about way was "if you take words and define them how you choose to define them, you might as well be saying Ug."  Which i suppose is why the whole define it your way thing makes me shake my head.  But until he said it, i wasnt able to stick a finger on it.  i just thought it stupid.  (no offense)  Okay not stupid, illogical.  And frankly, it is illogical.  Highly.  Thats like saying i can post a message saying this:

"The dog ate the cat and then the mouse licked the cat, to a purple frog and my goodness my toe ached, so i kicked the heater.."

Meaning: i need to scratch my back but i havent anything to scratch it on 

mmmmmm ug anyone? 

Guess what folks.  Master, Mistress, slave, submissive all of those and almost any other word in the english language has an agreed upon defintion.  Go look it up!  www.dictionary.com

i mean really, this practice that is so excepted on these boards is illogical, highly.  Maybe its just the online world - i dunno but try walking out into broad daylight and saying "i'm a purple cow" (or insert your choosen word) with your own defintion and just umm.. watch the expressions on others faces. 

No, i am not getting into a debate about the defintions of the specific words Master, sub, slave, Mistress, Dom, because i dont have too.  i can go look it up = )

i'll leave with you one word to ponder

Ug





CrappyDom -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:18:56 PM)

Try finding an unabridged Oxford English Dictionary and look up definitions of your favorite words, I think you will be surprised.

In the communities that deal with writing dictionaries there are HUGE arguments over what gets added, what gets deleted, and of course what changes.  The English language especially is quite dynamic and changes with great regularity.

That said, as one who tends to mock labels, let me step up and play both sides as only an arrogant ass like myself can do.

I object to those who use labels and pick out whatever one they feel is the shiniest and who then make a flow chart with their's way at the top, somehow they never seem to pick the one at the bottom.  They come up with a host of BS and slap their bright shiny new label on it.  All labels other than their own have some sort of denigrating language.  I swear to god I saw a thread here where someone had invented on of those shiney new labels and it was "high end submissive"! 

However, as a lover of words and the sound of my own voice, meaning and clarity are important to me.  Without widely accepted definitions we are just saying "UG".  Unfortunately, do to the dynamics of the scene, two huge groups of people don't want definitions.  Some who have been around a while and love to mix things up, push boundaries etc. don't like restrictive labels.  The others are those who prey on the edges or online and like to play games with meanings. 

Anyway, just a few rambling thoughts from a very very purple oliphant and my ogoeos says ooahpreow to you!




LaMalinche -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:23:23 PM)

I am not so sure if it is the definitions that are not agreed upon, or the way we choose to live out those definitions that is the issue.

Just my two cents.

Best,

LaMalinche





MyCaptainsPet -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:35:08 PM)

You fail to forget that every part of a definition may NOT apply in every instance.

For example someone has the stomach flu.  Chills, fever, nausea, is all they have for symptoms but no vomiting.  Does that mean they DON'T have the stomach flu simply because one symptom is vomiting but they aren't?






Whiterabbit0117 -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:42:01 PM)

It is also commonly accepted that definitions of common words differ greatly among subcultures and even professions.  We commonly use words in ways that the vanilla world does not.  There are even differences in meaning between the het and leather community.   Even within the het BDSM community words can have dramatically different connotations depending on where you are located.

As someone else noted, even established words change. In the teenage world the half life of the hip vocabulary is apparently about every 15 days.  We won't even discuss how many generations ago hip became no longer hip.




MyCaptainsPet -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:42:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl


i had a conversation with my father in law, or fiance in law, or as i asked him later (would that be Master in law?)



IF you want to get technical, this man would not be an IN-LAW because, the defintion of in-law is a relative by marriage.  You are NOT married yet, so he's NOT an in-law. He is only your fiance's father.  There is NO gray area in the definition.


Is that what you mean?





Invictus754 -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:46:39 PM)

Oh, Gosh RiotGirl - if it were only that easy.
 
I figured I would take your advice, and I went to dictionary.com.  I decided I would look up the easiest word I know: go.  Two letters.  Kinda like Ug.  You would think that in some large stone, deeply chiseled forever, would have the simple definition of go.
 
However, there were over 25 different definitions for the word.  25!  It meant a sale (go to the highest bidder); it meant to function properly (the car won't go); it meant to pass from one person to another (wild rumors are going around the office); it meant to be called (William likes to go by Billy); it meant time elapsed (the day goes well); it meant to die (Grandma will go to heaven); it means to excrete waste (I go to the bathroom); it means to participate (I'll go half on a pizza); it means a sexual activity (I'm gonna go down on her); it means to explode (the dynamite will go off if you light it); it means to examine (to go over with a fine tooth comb); it even means fast food (he took the sandwich to go)...
 
Now, how can using the dictionary be the ultimate solution, when many times the context of the sentence makes a difference to what the word means?  How about lead and lead?  One is a verb (I will lead the horse to water) but the other is a noun (lead is a heavy metal).
 
People are not always definining things as they choose, sometimes they are taking things out of context and that takes away the actual meaning of what one person was trying to say and makes it totally something else.  Or, because one word does have multiple meaning, each uses the definition he is most familiar with to actually argue his point.   I like to use the test: when I say the word "DOG" you think of a picture of a dog.  Look at the detail, the size, the coloring...imagine him at the top of a hill with a blue sky.  Now, what BREED was the dog you thought of?  If you ask ten different people, you will get answers as varied as Boxer, Malamute, Cocker Spaniel, Terrier or Maltese.  The word is simple, however what each person personally sees behind the word is not always the same thing.  That is why when any argument heats up, one needs to step back and ensure that the same idea with all the little details being argued are the same on both sides.  Negotiations at a national level are a real bitch because of this. :)
 
Using dictionary.com, one could argue that "I'm going to have a go at your wife" could mean you are going to try to use her sexually, or you are going to try to pee on her.  Two totally different things.
 
Ug.
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Definition for Go:
  1. To move or travel; proceed: We will go by bus. Solicitors went from door to door seeking donations. How fast can the boat go?
  2. To move away from a place; depart: Go before I cry.


  3. To pursue a certain course: messages that go through diplomatic channels to the ambassador.
    To resort to another, as for aid: went directly to the voters of her district. See Synonyms at resort.



  • To extend between two points or in a certain direction; run: curtains that go from the ceiling to the floor.
    To give entry; lead: a stairway that goes to the basement.
  • To function properly: The car won't go.


  • To have currency.
    To pass from one person to another; circulate: Wild rumors were going around the office.
  • To pass as the result of a sale: The gold watch went to the highest bidder.
  • Informal. Used as an intensifier when joined by and to a coordinate verb: She went and complained to Personnel.
  • Used in the progressive tense with an infinitive to indicate future intent or expectation: I am going to learn how to dance.


  • To continue to be in a certain condition or continue an activity: go barefoot.
    To come to be in a certain condition: go mad; hair that had gone gray.
    To continue to be in effect or operation: a lease with one year to go.
    To carry out an action to a certain point or extent: Your parents went to great expense to put you through college.
  • To be called; be known: Our friend William often goes by Billy.


  • To be customarily located; belong: The fork goes to the left of the plate. Where do the plates go?
    To be capable of entering or fitting: Will the suitcase go into the trunk of your car?


  • To pass into someone's possession: All the jewelry went to her heirs.
    To be allotted: How much of your salary goes for rent?
  • To be a contributing factor: It all goes to show us that the project can be completed on time.


  • To have a particular form: as the saying goes.
    To be such, by and large: well behaved, as big dogs go.


  • To extend in time: The story goes back to the Middle Ages.
    To pass by; elapse: The day went pleasantly enough until I received your call.


  • To be used up or finished: My interest in such things has gone.
    To be discarded or abolished: All luxuries will have to go.


  • To become weak; fail: His hearing has started to go.
    To give way; break up: The dam is about to go.
  • To cease living; die.


  • To happen or develop; fare: How are things going?
    To have a successful outcome: creativity that made the advertising campaign really go.
  • To be suitable or appropriate as an accessory or accompaniment: a color that goes beautifully with your complexion.


  • To have authority: Whatever I say goes.
    To be valid, acceptable, or adequate.
  • Informal. To excrete waste from the bladder or bowels.
  • Informal. To begin an act: Here goes!
  • Obsolete. To walk.

    v. tr.
    1. To proceed or move according to: I was free to go my own way.
    2. To traverse: Only two of the runners went the entire distance.
    3. To engage in: went skiing.
    4. Informal.

      To bet: go $20 on the black horse.
      To bid: I'll go $500 on the vase.

  • Informal.

    To take on the responsibility or obligation for: go bail for a client.
    To participate to (a given extent): Will you go halves with me if we win the lottery?
  • To amount to; weigh: a shark that went 400 pounds.
  • Sports. To have as a record: went 3 for 4 against their best pitcher.
  • Informal. To enjoy: I could go a cold beer right now.
  • To say or utter. Used chiefly in verbal narration: First I go, “Thank you,” then he goes, “What for?”

    n. pl. goes
    1. The act or an instance of going.
    2. An attempt; an effort: had a go at acting.
    3. The time or period of an activity.
    4. Informal. Energy; vitality: had lots of go.
    5. Informal.

      The go-ahead.
      often Go The starting point: “And from Go there was something deliciously illicit about the whole affair” (Erica Abeel).
      Informal. A situation in which planned operations can be effectuated: The space mission is a go.


    adj.

    Informal. Functioning correctly and ready for action: All systems are go.

    Phrasal Verbs:
    go about


    To set about to do; undertake: Go about your chores in a responsible way.
    go along
    To cooperate: They get along by going along.
    go around
    1. To satisfy a demand or requirement: just enough food to go around.
    2. To go here and there; move from place to place.
    3. To have currency: rumors going around.

    go at
    1. To attack, especially with energy.
    2. To approach; undertake: He went at the job with a lot of energy.

    go by
    1. To elapse; pass: as time goes by.
    2. To pay a short visit: My parents were away when we went by last week.

    go down


    1. To drop below the horizon; set: The sun went down.
      To fall to the ground: The helicopter went down in a ball of fire.
      To sink: The torpedoed battleship went down.
      To experience defeat or ruin.

  • To admit of easy swallowing: a cough syrup that goes down readily.
  • To decrease in cost or value.
  • Chiefly British To leave a university.
  • Slang To occur; happen: “a collection of memorable pieces about the general craziness that was going down in those days” (James Atlas).


  • To be accepted or tolerated: How will your ideas go down as far as corporate marketing is concerned?
    To come to be remembered in posterity: a debate that will go down as a turning point in the campaign.
  • Vulgar Slang To perform fellatio or cunnilingus.
    go for
    1. Informal To have a special liking for: I really go for progressive jazz.
    2. To attack: an opponent who is known to go for the jugular in arguments.
    3. To pass for or serve as: a couch that also goes for a bed.

    go in
    1. To take part in a cooperative venture: went in with the others to buy a present.
    2. To make an approach, as before an attack: Troops went in at dawn.

    go into
    1. To discuss or investigate: The book goes into classical mythology.
    2. To undertake as a profession or course of study: She's going into medicine.

    go off
    1. To undergo detonation; explode.
    2. To make a noise; sound: The siren went off at noon.
    3. To leave: Don't go off mad.
    4. Informal To adhere to the expected course of events or the expected plan: The project went off smoothly.

    go on
    1. To take place; happen: didn't know what was going on.


    2. To continue: Life must go on.
      To keep on doing (something): Don't go on talking.
      To proceed: She went on to become a senator.

  • Informal To talk volubly: My, you do go on.
    go out
    1. To become extinguished.


    2. To go outdoors; leave one's residence: He went out at seven.
      To take part in social life outside the home: goes out a lot.

  • To become unfashionable: High boots went out last year.
  • To undergo structural collapse: The bridge went out.
    go over
    1. To gain acceptance or approval: a new style that didn't go over.
    2. To examine or review: go over the test scores.

    go through
    1. To examine carefully: went through the students' papers.
    2. To experience: We went through hell while working on this project.
    3. To perform: I went through the sonata in 30 minutes.

    go under
    1. To suffer defeat or destruction; fail.
    2. To lose consciousness.

    go up
    1. To increase in price or value.
    2. To be in the process of construction: Office buildings went up all over town.
    3. Chiefly British To go to a university.

    go with
    1. To date (someone) regularly.
    2. To select or choose: decided to go with the pink wallpaper.


    Idioms:
    from the word go

    From the very beginning.
    go all the way
    Slang To have sexual intercourse.
    go back on
    To fail to honor or keep: go back on a promise.
    go begging
    To be in little or no demand: “Prestige or no prestige, directors' jobs at some companies have actually gone begging” (Bill Powell).
    go belly up Informal
    To undergo total financial failure: “A record number of... banks went belly up” (New Republic).
    go bust Informal
    To undergo financial collapse: “Railroads were in the news mainly when they were going bust” (Christian Science Monitor).
    go by the board
    To be discarded or ignored: old dress codes that have now gone by the board.
    go down the line
    To provide strong support.
    go fly a kite Informal
    To cease being an annoyance. Often used in the imperative.
    go for broke Informal
    To commit or expend all of one's available resources toward achievement of a goal: “Why not go for broke and take on somebody who is quite young and see what he does?” (Roger L. Stevens).
    go for it Informal
    To expend all one's strength and resources toward achievement of an end or purpose.
    go in for
    1. To have interest in: goes in for classical music.
    2. To take part in: goes in for water skiing.

    go in with
    To join in or combine with: He'll go in with them on the plan.
    go it alone
    To undertake a project, trip, or responsibility without the presence or help of others.
    go off the deep end
    To behave hysterically or very recklessly.
    go one better
    To surpass or outdo by one degree: He's gone me one better.
    go out for
    To seek to become a participant in: go out for varsity soccer.
    go out of (one's) way
    To inconvenience oneself in doing something beyond what is required.
    go out the window Informal
    To become insignificant or inoperative: “As soon as a third body is introduced to the Newtonian system, all lawful ordering of processes goes out the window” (Fusion).
    go places Informal
    To be on the way to success: a young executive who is clearly going places.
    go steady
    To date someone exclusively.
    go the distance
    To carry a course of action through to completion.
    go the vole
    To risk all of one's resources in the prospect of achieving great gains.
    go to it
    To begin something right away.
    go to (one's) head
    1. To make one dizzy or inebriated.
    2. To make one proud or conceited.

    go to pieces
    1. To lose one's self-control.
    2. To suffer the loss of one's health.

    go to the mat Informal
    To fight or dispute until one side or another is victorious: The governor will go to the mat with the legislature over the controversial spending bill.
    go to the wall Informal
    1. To lose a conflict or be defeated; yield: Despite their efforts, the team went to the wall.
    2. To be forced into bankruptcy; fail.
    3. To make an all-out effort, especially in defending another.

    go to town Informal
    1. To work or perform efficiently and rapidly.
    2. To be highly successful.

    go up in flames/smoke
    To be utterly destroyed.
    go without saying
    To be self-evident: It goes without saying that success is the product of hard work.
    on the go
    Constantly busy or active.
    to go
    To be taken out, as restaurant food or drink: coffee and doughnuts to go.




  • Arpig -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:50:44 PM)

    Not an in-law.....that would make him an out-law?




    LaMalinche -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 7:52:29 PM)

    Thank you for the education. . . at least I can say I learned something today.  LOL

    Best,

    LaMalinche





    Tikkiee -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 8:08:39 PM)

    I am sorry, but words themselves are subjective. No single word will always mean the same thing to each and every individual. To say that any single word has an agreed upon definition is extremely narrow-minded.
    If you gather every dictionary and look up the word Master; you will find almost 250 DIFFERENT definitions for this single word. And these do not include synonyms.
    Trying to say that a single definition is universal, is like trying to say that everyone is the same. When you do that, you remove the uniqueness that makes up each individual.




    bignipples2share -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 8:11:27 PM)

    that had to be one of the most versital words in the universe..I think the only other two would be fuck an shit..IMHO




    bignipples2share -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 8:12:50 PM)

    edited because I was bad




    sweetbbwsub31 -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 8:31:23 PM)

    It's not that cut and dry in my opinion RiotGirl. We all have very different personalities and kink levels that don't always fit into a precise definiton. Isn't the whole goal of message boards to learn from others and about others that may or may not be like you? Aren't we all here because we share a lifestyle interest or at least a curiosity. i don't think we all fit into the Websters. There are so many different variations of Master, Dom, sub , slave and switch. Just my thoughts.




    RiotGirl -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 9:44:30 PM)

    quote:

    However, there were over 25 different definitions for the word. 25! It meant a sale (go to the highest bidder); it meant to function properly (the car won't go); it meant to pass from one person to another (wild rumors are going around the office); it meant to be called (William likes to go by Billy); it meant time elapsed (the day goes well); it meant to die (Grandma will go to heaven); it means to excrete waste (I go to the bathroom); it means to participate (I'll go half on a pizza); it means a sexual activity (I'm gonna go down on her); it means to explode (the dynamite will go off if you light it); it means to examine (to go over with a fine tooth comb); it even means fast food (he took the sandwich to go)...


    those are actually contexts of the word.  Not really the definition of the word <wicked grin>




    RiotGirl -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 10:06:11 PM)

    Okay - well i havent specifically learned anything yet.  As i'm not argueing context nor people - but definition.  Sure if were to agree that words do have a definition, or a meaning.. then we'd also have to agree on a dictionary.  At the moment, it probably wouldnt be www.dictionary.com <g>  Maybe and Oxford or something.  Webster's is pretty good.

    Granted, i never said that words do not have different context's that they could be used in.  i said they're meaning is different.  You can use submissive differently to mean different things, but the definition is about the same.  "i am submissive to my boss" is not the same as "i am submissive to my Master" yet, they both broadly mean, i am subserviant.

    You can not say i am submissive to my boss.  Defining submissive as giving orders to your boss.  i never said anything about context.  i said definition. 

    When you say the word dog.  Do you think of a cat? (Granted dogs generally have 4 legs, yet some have 3 or even two.) a hamster?   Whats the "generally" defined word of dog? Whats the definition of a human?  Christ lets break out latin (tho i know pretty much zip in it)  Human's are homosapians.  Medical terms have defintions.  Would you want doctors to treat its patients the way we treat words?  Doc tells the nurse (thats caring for you) that you have x and then his shift is over.  Something goes wrong and the you get treated for x. 

    Yes there are variations of dogs.  Variatiions of people, variations of a medical illness.  But if i say AIDS and you think Lupus you've opened yourself up to some possible serious complications.  As after living all 26 years of my life with a mother with moderate lupus i have yet had to worry about being in contact with her blood.  Granted there are variations.. but if you're going to think lupus when i said AIDS.

    i dunno.  i could just not be seeing it




    MyCaptainsPet -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 10:16:34 PM)

    If you say chair, my first thoughts are going to be what kind? Arm chair? Recliner? folding? Rocking?  All are chairs, just different types.

    Cat........ long hair, short hair, no hair, fur, tom, stray, out door

    Dog............. pit bull, stray, wild, pug.

    We're all human and we will think, when we hear a word we will all think of something different.. When i think of the word submissive i picture my sitting at his feet... Someone else may think of being tied up and whipped.... someone else serving him supper first... it's what makes us all unique.

    We may not be placing labels on ourselves, but in fact trying to find a catagory to fit in. Somewhere to identify who we are.






    CERCKL -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 10:56:12 PM)

    quote:

    You fail to forget that every part of a definition may NOT apply in every instance.

    For example someone has the stomach flu.


    Or as My ex, an RN would point out...there is no such thing as a stomach 'flu'...as for definitions, agreed, most dictionaries will have multiple definitions for a word and many will not even be related...IE Dominant...not just context as riot stated later in this thread.
    Words are used, the linguistic history of their meanings change...taken in by different groups, given differing meanings etc...as well as what little I remember of cognitive psych back in the late eighties our realities are defined by our operceptions and how we define it...another example is it hurts 'bad'; in alot of hospitals attempting to deal with pain management issues, bad doesn't mean shit to them, so they are utilizing a scale of 1-10 with 1 being little pain and 10 being unbearable...the idea is everyone has different pain thresholds and can tolerate different amounts of pain before it's uncomfortable and so it's difficult to administer pain medication...the numbers give an idea where that patient is based on the patient's perception...
    So it ain't black-and-white but all gray; subjective and as pointed out one argument based on differing definitions...
    C





    twicehappy -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 11:06:56 PM)

    All i can say is "Here we go again". Hope you are prepared for a long seige. In the past month alone (you will have to simply go read them all) there have been more threads on this topic than grains of sand on the beach. I do agre with you though, good luck!




    ScooterTrash -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 11:29:59 PM)

    RiotGirl I do so understand what you are saying, as it's no secret that my opinion is that I wish we as a BDSM community (or whatever you want to call it..lol) would at least agree on basic definitions. It would simply make discussions easier if nothing else. I don't see it happening anytime soon, but it's a nice thought. As for using a dictionary, I might take exception to this as the "nilla" meaning and what W/we actually use it for may be somewhat different, but some sort of standard would be nice, of course then we would have to agree on that...I fear it's an uphill climb either way. 




    RiotGirl -> RE: Definition (4/16/2006 11:49:58 PM)

    quote:

    RiotGirl I do so understand what you are saying, as it's no secret that my opinion is that I wish we as a BDSM community (or whatever you want to call it..lol) would at least agree on basic definitions. It would simply make discussions easier if nothing else. I don't see it happening anytime soon, but it's a nice thought. As for using a dictionary, I might take exception to this as the "nilla" meaning and what W/we actually use it for may be somewhat different, but some sort of standard would be nice, of course then we would have to agree on that...I fear it's an uphill climb either way.


    You are probably right.  But i thought i had a sure fire arguement this time = )  i've stood back from these arguements as you're right we would all have to agree, and large masses of people being able to agree on something is slim to none.  i feel the same too.  i think its awful that something as simple as that we cant agree on.  Submissive which if i were to define it would mean subservient.  Why must this community struggle with the basics of human speech so much?  i see it everywhere.  All those dang disclaimers!  More likely then not its because its a "forum"  So i should take that into effect. 

    But as for "learning" anything, i have unfortunetly sincerly not.  See what i dont see, or dont think you all see is this.

    Define Submissive - subservient 

    not dog!!!!

    Okay and the whole dog thing as well as the other things. 

    No one ever asked what kind of Dog.  Or what Kind of submissive.  They're are Kinds!! 

    Let me ask you.  Picture a grey hound dog.  Fundmentally you are going to picture a grey hound dog.  One that is a GREY HOUNG.  They have distinct features actually and a whole history about them.  You will of course go on to clarify what sort of greyhound, will you not? 

    So if you tell some one you are a Master at bullwhips...  (well not you personally Scooter)  Whatcha gonna think?  Yes you need clarity, and you need to find out what kind.. but still submissive is submissive, dog is dog, go is go, ice cream is even ice cream. 

    Different types.  But darn it!  Ice cream is ice cream.  Unless of course you think i'm talking about cheese cake and i really am. 

    Okay if some one came up and said, "i like ice cream" you are going to assume.. they like ice cream.. agreed?  It is a blanket statement and leaves the field wide open.  But not as wide as you all want to leave it open.   So if you actually cared about the fact that they like ice cream, you'd go on to ask what kind.  From what shop even?  Get the point?

    Same thing with submissive and arg even slave.  Sub mis sive.  Sub servient

    Slave

    1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
    2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: “I was still the slave of education and prejudice” (Edward Gibbon).
    3. One who works extremely hard.
    4. A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.

    intr.v. slaved, slav·ing, slaves
    1. To work very hard or doggedly; toil.
    2. To trade in or transport slaves.


    i am deathly sure we can pick One out of that group to agree on?  Yet, of course, its still a blanket statement.  Next you would go on to ask what kind of slave.  There are service only slaves, puppy slaves, pony play slaves, male slave.. ect. 

    Yet even though you clarify - i dont see it as all that hard to agree upon number 1 as the defintion of slave.  Sure go on and say you've a slave heart. 

    Scooter, you are probably right.  This isnt something that will be worked out.  Though i will figure it out some day = )

    So for now

    ug





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