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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 5:22:42 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
What a waste it was dropping firefly, fox could have had a real hit.

Let's not go there...

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 6:50:59 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		i really don't know, but from what i have seen on here i would agree, however Bitatruble has a point, we see those who like to write and express themselves in a written medium on here, so we are probably getting a skewed view of the general BDSM populace...walks off knuckles dragging....

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 7:19:18 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		I once noticed a study that showed that the vast majority of those in the lifestyle have at least a 4 year collage education, and that it is even more skewed at the masters and doctorate level. The conclusion was that the higher ones level of education the more people are naturally drawn to the lifestyle. This much is factual.

Why is this true though? Some people have tried to figure this out but I have not come across any explanations that are convincing. My sense is that those who have the ability to work with high order concepts mentally are more able to take meaning from BDSM. These people are also more able to redirect  sexual drive outside of the channels where it flows by instinct. Also, more highly educated people are more willing to question societal teachings and more willing to ditch them when they prove to be false.

The overriding mystery for me at the moment is why when the community is very  weighted on the highly educated side are so many determined to keep the language of the community impoverished? One of the surest signs of high education and ability to mentally work complext concepts is having a large vocabulary and knowing how to use it. If highly educated people have a vast linguistic ability and have found it useful to make sense of BDSM why would they argue for a debased communal language? Why is it that every society and group has its own agreed language but only BDSM does not. What makes BDSM so special? There may be a reasonable explanation, but then again it may be that  those who know wish to keep outsiders out, it is a secret society.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 4/17/2006 7:21:51 PM >

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 7:20:49 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		It would be nice to think that there is a correlation..And yes I have to admit that I have seen a great deal of intelligience displayed here on CM.. With that being said..Being open minded, and the drive to learn all there is in an alternative lifestyle leaves you more open to many ideas, opinions and viewpoints, which in turn make you more introspective, more analytical if you will ,of yourself and others..Think about what it is we do..we delve deeply into the human psyche,to understand the whys of responses, to gain through thought and manipulation desired responses, to change through observation and conditioning undesired responses...So I say yes generally speaking lifestylers tend to be on the average very intelligient...be well..Tempting

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 7:44:32 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
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From: Washington
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quote:

I once noticed a study that showed that the vast majority of those in the lifestyle have at least a 4 year collage education, and that it is even more skewed at the masters and doctorate level. The conclusion was that the higher ones level of education the more people are naturally drawn to the lifestyle. This much is factual.


Last year we had a thread on the education of the posters here and i think it agrees with what you said:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_73553/mpage_1/key_education/tm.htm#73553

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 8:30:21 PM   
RiotGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash


It's interesting to me to read the posts on the forum boards and just marvel at the amount of folks we have with obviously high IQs and amazing amounts of knowledge. Sure, we disagree often, probably due to it (nature of the beast), but I am just wondering if anyone else is seeing a correlation between being intelligent and being in the lifestyle? I'm almost thinking that we, as a group, may have inadvertently got bored with the "nilla" world not only because of particular kinks and such, but perhaps also because on an intellectual level we didn't fit in. Yes, I know there are some flyers, but the vast majority seems to fit this classification.


i've often wondered that myself actually.  Was never quite sure.  Be interesting to read the thread to see if there is one.

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 9:06:03 PM   
CERCKL


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quote:

I once noticed a study that showed that the vast majority of those in the lifestyle have at least a 4 year collage education, and that it is even more skewed at the masters and doctorate level. The conclusion was that the higher ones level of education the more people are naturally drawn to the lifestyle. This much is factual.



I did make collages in a design class years ago but I never got a degree in it...
Sorry, couldn't help myself :-)

I have been accused of being sorta smart for years now and I am not certain I agree with that; looking at the documentation, I have dropped out of a private art school, honors college at university level, and community college...I have worked shit jobs for over 15 years now, currently make less than 1/2 what I did six months ago, I currently drive delivery and after all is said and done, will be collecting child support from my ex who makes considerably more than I do...so I am doing all I can to drag the curve down...

C


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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 10:15:57 PM   
PenelopePitstop


Posts: 254
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash


It's interesting to me to read the posts on the forum boards and just marvel at the amount of folks we have with obviously high IQs and amazing amounts of knowledge. Sure, we disagree often, probably due to it (nature of the beast), but I am just wondering if anyone else is seeing a correlation between being intelligent and being in the lifestyle? I'm almost thinking that we, as a group, may have inadvertently got bored with the "nilla" world not only because of particular kinks and such, but perhaps also because on an intellectual level we didn't fit in. Yes, I know there are some flyers, but the vast majority seems to fit this classification.

I've thought about this a lot, but at my munch there was an incident which made me change my mind.

I used to think BDSM was the domain of intelligent people only. Then one day a Domme lady came to our munch with no idea of the munch rules, no regard for the company she was in and began scening with a slave.

Cue lots of glaring and whispering, myself included.The woman became an instant outcast.

Later I visited her webpage and spoke to a friend of mine who knows her. Frankly, she IS 100% domme by my standards, she has made a lot of people very happy. But she is not on the same level as the munchgoers, at least in terms of communication. But she is living the life, and having a great time. We are all entitled to that.

The conclusion I arrived at that is we all tend to stick with people of our own intelligence level (and what the hell is intelligence - I don't bloody know) so we may assume that these are the only kinds of people around. It's not true. When it comes to sexual identity and what makes us tick there are always different levels.

The lady I'm talking about struck me as a kind of cavewoman when I saw her, and revealed my own prejudice there. I mean  serial killers Fred and Rose West apparently did a great line in BDSM and there is no way on this earth you would call them intelligent: stealthy and clever perhaps, but not intelligent.They were like ape -people.

I think one tends to encounter more highly intelligent individuals in this lifestyle, but it might just be that we know what to 'do' with the urge.








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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/17/2006 11:32:06 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash


It's interesting to me to read the posts on the forum boards and just marvel at the amount of folks we have with obviously high IQs and amazing amounts of knowledge. Sure, we disagree often, probably due to it (nature of the beast), but I am just wondering if anyone else is seeing a correlation between being intelligent and being in the lifestyle? I'm almost thinking that we, as a group, may have inadvertently got bored with the "nilla" world not only because of particular kinks and such, but perhaps also because on an intellectual level we didn't fit in. Yes, I know there are some flyers, but the vast majority seems to fit this classification.


I wouldn't use this forum as a gauge. The majority of regular posters probably like to write and people who like to do something, practice at it often enough, tend to do it well or at least better than the average Joe Schmoe who doesn't have the opportunity to hone their writing skill. Then there are those (like me) who are opinionated and like to write ::grins:: and that's what I glean from the posters on collarme. In the offline world though, it's the same as anything else with diverse groups of people. You get both rotten and golden eggs ending up in the same basket. The bell curve for forums is skewed so while it may appear one way, it's probably not.

Celeste


Extremely well stated. I mentioned something very similar in a post about six months ago. And I think this goes without saying regards any BBS.



 - R


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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 2:39:18 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji
To me, these message boards have a LOT of very experienced, intelligent people, but that is not necessarily reflective of the lifestyle population on the whole.


That is it said succinctly.

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 4:00:31 AM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		I agree that on a site like this you tend to find those who are generally brighter and communicate well in writing.

With the munch groups you get more of a cross section of people who are interested in the lifestyle.

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 4:05:53 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The life style is so broad and incorporates so many different people who define the life style differently, I think the whole idea that average intelligence in the lifestyle is more than those people outside the life style is nonsence. First you would have to get an agreed definition of the life style.

I don't think a degree or Masters or whatever makes someone more intelligent than anyone else or more able social operators. That is my experience. Most college degrees could be earned by monkeys. (I have three degrees so I'm including myself here.)

I heard on a current affairs programme only the other year (how true it is I don't know I haven't checked) that while 80% of deputy CEOs in the top 100 companies have degrees, none of the top 100 CEOs have. Hmm sounds a little ridiculous now I've said it but I'm sure that is what was said. Certainly as I travel around, I know most of the CEOs of the companies I deal with aren't college educated because they spent that time building their companies.

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 6:21:08 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Sounds like the general consensus is that it’s perhaps that “we” as a group are simply more open about discussing topics than the vanilla world. I think someone mentioned and I do agree there is a difference between many individuals you may run into on the other side of CM and the participants on the forum boards. As for the munch observations, I hadn’t thought about that and am not sure I would have included that sampling, as I as well have noticed perhaps the opposite extreme, often, in those encounters. Maybe it’s just the forum boards that bring it out...lol.

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 7:46:41 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Okay, general question to throw out here, just because i can no longer help myself....

If any of us says our D/s relationship is more powerful and intense than any past relationships, we're accused of having an elitist attitude.

Yet.....we can have a thread which suggests we are more intelligent than vanilla's???

(Where's that complaint thread....lol)

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 4/18/2006 7:47:07 AM >

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 1:58:21 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		Actually what was said is that those who claim to be in the lifestyle are more highly educated than is the general population. This much is scientifically verified fact. I said that I noticed a scientific study that came to the conclusion that the more highly educated a person is the more likely they are to be drawn to BDSM. It is a big jump to get to those in BDSM are more intelligent than the general population on average. Then you need to start talking about different kinds of intelligence. You know, books smarts, verse people smarts etc.

Ya, people throw the elitist charge around plenty these days, but the fact that BDSM people are are average more highly educated than the rest of the population is not open to the charge. It is a numerical fact, number of years in school. Sure, some will be offended by this fact a try to explain it away in a way that has BDSM people be no better than everyone else, but only fools listen.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 4/18/2006 2:02:18 PM >

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 2:20:25 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Please forgive my misunderstanding.  The name of the thread had to do with intelligence levels, and the OP asked about the correlation between being intelligent and the BDSM lifestyle, so i went from there.

A scientific study? Your earlier post said a study, which anyone could do. Your original post also spoke only of the education of  those in this lifestyle.  This most recent post of yours makes the comparision of "lifestylers" to "vanillas" so i'm wondering which it is?  i'd actually love to see the study - could you post it?  Was it a per capita breakdown?  i wonder how many people they polled, and what the questions were.  i wonder what organization embarked in its creation, and who funded it.  It would indeed be an interesting read.  As all of us educated folks know, studies can be created to reflect whatever the surveyor wishes to see.  i do not doubt such a study exists, or even its validity.  i would simply be interested in seeing it.

Regardless, my earlier post was really a tongue in cheek thing, as i got a chuckle out of the idea of a bunch of people talking about how smart they are.  i see this a lot at work, and i think it is funny here, as well.  Ironically enough, when i worked in an environment surrounded by those of a Ph.D level, such a topic never came up. 

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 4/18/2006 2:23:02 PM >

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 2:34:32 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		In the interest of clarity and consideration for others time please consider marking posts that are not intended for serious consideration. Humor has a general format, please use it. If you dont know how, put a warning tag on it.  

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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 2:46:49 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ICGsteve

Actually what was said is that those who claim to be in the lifestyle are more highly educated than is the general population. This much is scientifically verified fact. I said that I noticed a scientific study that came to the conclusion that the more highly educated a person is the more likely they are to be drawn to BDSM.


Citation please.  I have a strong professional interest in how the universe "BDSM person" was defined to distinguish it from the general universe.



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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 4:05:16 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I think the standards of what define "high intelligence" in an online forum are relative to each individual's own perception of his/her own intelligence level. 

It's kind of like George Carlin's ".....everyone driving faster than you is a maniac, and everyone driving slower than you is a moron"  or something like that.

If we're posting in a forum where everyone seems to be in relative sync with their thoughts and opinions, it's easy to judge them as "intelligent" simply because they agree with our own.  Because how many really think of themselves as "stupid" or even "below average intelligence"?  But, if someone enters the boards with a point of view not understood or accepted by the masses, they may very well be dismissed as "morons", when they might actually have an IQ score off the charts.

Which brings up another subject of judging "intelligence" by IQ scores.  Some take tests well and score high, but have no common sense or "street smarts" whatsoever.  Others may have a mediocre IQ score, but actually are very quick and bright thinkers and doers.  What makes one "intelligent"?  A test score, or how they function in mainstream society?


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RE: Intelligence levels in S/M & BDSM - 4/18/2006 4:21:46 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'd say neither.  Intelligence is the ability to understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

What makes one "intelligent"?  A test score, or how they function in mainstream society?


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 4/18/2006 4:22:51 PM >

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