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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The maths wouldn't be relevant.  If she wanted to be a fireman or a foot soldier, then that would be natural and right.  What men and women have traditionally done and been good at isn't relevant, either.  It only ever gets in the way to think in those terms.  You say that men and women are different from one another.  There are differences - I agree.  But I'd say: don't ever try to 'fix' any of them - rationalise them, by saying they're 'natural' - because, one day, a woman will nearly always come along and do what a man usually does - and vice versa.  At that point, you'd be stuck in the self-evidently unsupportable position of saying 'that's unnatural'.[;)]

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ORIGINAL: dbloomer
You seem to identify personally with these views which means you will never admit your viewpoint is or could be wrong because you feel that would indicate a fault in you personally. This will be my last correspondance with you, because you seem to skip past all of the valid points I make and reiterate your world view again and again, which isn't useful or productive to either of us.

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ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

You're brilliant, you're correct, and you're well-spoken, but you're arguing with the deaf. He is never going to see what you're saying

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The problem is that to a man who is sexist, there is nothing scarier than a woman who can do anything he can do, so rather than deal with his insecurities, he has to rationalize the bias by calling it unnatural. I am still completely shocked and amazed (after years and years of dealing with this stuff) that people refuse to accept that other people have different experiences than theirs, and they cannot make generalizations about entire groups of people. All women in the world, for instance. Give me a break.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I just saw that he ogled my profile at some point.....then I realized where he was from. One of my best friends actually lives very near him. Oh how I would dearly LOVE to introduce the two of them. Talk about a gorgeous, hot woman that could educate him. She is a master welder......all woman, and very very beautiful.

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I can not read a thread such as this one and not be reminded of the quote by Robert A. Heinlein regarding women and equality:
"Whenever women have insisted upon absolute equality they have always ended up on the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men and their proper tactic is to demand special priviledges, all the market will bear. For women, "equality" is a disaster."

edit: punctuation

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ORIGINAL: dbloomer

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I can not read a thread such as this one and not be reminded of the quote by Robert A. Heinlein regarding women and equality:
"Whenever women have insisted upon absolute equality they have always ended up on the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men and their proper tactic is to demand special priviledges, all the market will bear. For women, "equality" is a disaster."

edit: punctuation

A witty saying proves nothing.

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Out of curiosity - Which roles are "better suited for men" and which are "better suited for women"?

And when you say "better suited" what do you mean exactly - do you mean, for example, that women shouldn't be allowed to perform those roles that are "better suited for men", or that when recruiting for these roles organisations should simply be allowed to disregard applications from women?

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You are correct; context is everything.
It is a pity that you have evidently never met the kind of women that were modeled after Heinlein's wife, Virgina.
And apparently you have no idea who Robert Heinlein is either, or your argument would have had more substance.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

I'm still waiting to hear about the appropriate roles for the sexes that he's suggested. It is a little comical that some people refuse to accept that they can and will be bested by the opposite sex at some point in their lives. Building your ego upon the premise of that never occurring is the real comedic point. [;)]

~porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: IronBear

The segments of anti feminism has been both enlightening, informative and pleasing to read. Frankly the pissing contest to see who is the better poster and who is right reminds me I can wander dawn to the pub and watch continuous pissing contests from half the male population live and in colour which is more fun than watching it on line.....  In generation s past male pride and a good dose of testosterone were essential for survival but sadly those days are past.. Something which appears to gave not been noticed by the few here.. Must have been a cock-up in the notice delivery system.. 

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ORIGINAL: dbloomer

Yes, we live in a day and age where men's survival value is basically nullified.   Science has shown that our minds and bodies are still wired for a time when our survival value WASN'T nullified, though we can still look at the lifestyle of the avarage man and women and examine our own lives to see that men still fall in to certain jobs and roles more readily than women due to their physique.

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I've lived in my hometown for 15 years and I don't recall ever seeing a female mechanic.  I've worked in a woodmill for a year and the ration of men to women was about 12-1, and the men assumed the most leighborous (and dangerous) tasks.  My uncle works in a plumbing store and the majority of the plumbers he deals with are men.   These are only a FEW convinient examples, though to be frank the need to explain something that is so obviously self-evident is a bit unreasonable.

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ORIGINAL: dbloomer

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ORIGINAL: IronBearIf you're interested in contributing your point of view I'd be glad to hear it, but I don't take kindly to the suggestion that I'm being a "prideful man in a pissing contest", and a smart gentleman like you must have known I wouldn't.

To be fair, I felt that IB was aiming that comment at least partially at me.  I also thought he had a smidgeon of a point in that respect.  

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I don't see many men running off to find labor intensive positions. Most are seeking the alternative and that divide has always existed. Just because a man was physically capable of doing a job doesn't mean he wants to do it. The stigma concerning many blue versus white collar positions have only begun to shift in recent years. Most of that is due to money.

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I live in the third largest city in America and I assure you I've seen them. And for what it's worth asbestos pays well. But I don't see people clamoring for the jobs.

~porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Well LadyHib, I think that it helps us that we realize, quite clearly, the Neanderthal era was just a few years ago.

Of course some men have been fighting tooth and nail to drag us back there ever since................pity on them.

A little ps......there are a few guys that have posted on this thread, and others like it, that are secure in their masculinity, regardless of kink orientation, M/D/s, and have really impressed me with their well thought out posts. Kudos to them!!!