RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias

RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (Full Version)

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smartsub10 -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/25/2010 5:53:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 quote: ORIGINAL: smartsub10 quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial aI'm not going to read the postings on this topic, just take note: feminism is the hatred of women. The long drawn out effect of feminism, and it's direct corollary, the sexual revolution, is to trash women's lives and their happiness, and thus to trash men's lives and their happiness, and most importantly! to trash children's lives, period. If I had a better keyboard, I'd elaborate. Gloria Steinem would be the first to tell you, she had a dysfunctional childhood, she basically took care of her mentally ill mother by herself, in a rat-infested home, for YEARS. She didn't even attend elementary and high school on a regular basis. Her family more or less abandoned her and her mother. Then, when a man wanted to marry her, and she was pregnant, the thought of any responsibility for someone else was too much for her. She wanted her freedom. Given her past, I don't blame her. She had an abortion. She foisted her sickness on the culture at large. A person with such a grossly dysfunctional childhood should have no influence on our culture, only our compassion and mercy. You can't possibly be serious in this belief. Where do you believe happiness lies for all women? He doesn't care apparently. Ick. Yep. He doesn't have a profile so he's afraid of exposing who he is. Pathetic.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/25/2010 6:01:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer porcelaine, A good, working definition of feminism is 'the furtherance of the tenets of freedom and equality, applied to a special case - that of women'. You may well like to use the terms philanthropy, or even noblesse oblige - they'll do, for a certain 'take' on what feminism may be for many. So it can't be philanthropy because who says? And you're able to substantiate that ideology how? Perhaps I should have phrased that differently because we seem to be at cross purposes. Feminism can be driven by philanthropy. It'd be nonsense to say otherwise. quote: And everyone that lives according to these principles that provides assistance to causes that benefit women and families are feminists? I think you're drawing a pretty wide margin on that one. My sense of duty has nothing to do with feminism and is directly related to what my parents instilled and my desire to see others have the same benefits I did. I was particularly referring to your earlier comment, quote: I have always been an advocate for the furtherance of women in society. - That would make you a feminist. Many on this thread have pointed out that feminism is now a very broad church. They're right - it is. It's often compared to socialism. But mud has been slung hard at both words, now, for a very long time. For many, if you're a socialist, you're a Marxist - and that's that. For perhaps just as many, if you're a feminist, you're a bra-burning, man-hating, emasculating harpie who's forgotten her femininity (howsoever you define that) - and that's also that. Both ideas are garbage.

Elisabella -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/25/2010 6:01:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 lol...remember when we used to fight! You are too cute![;)]. Hehe I was pretty snotty to you, and I feel bad about that because you're actually really awesome <3

Aynne88 -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/25/2010 6:38:50 PM)
I love this Elisabella [;)]. You are more awesome, and I love making up on the CM forums[:D]. Oh and edited to add, I was snottier, I am sowwy!

MMercurial -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/25/2010 6:58:25 PM)
Yes, my profile is usually hidden. My boys know who I am; they write and call me directly. And as one sage wrote, winning an argument on the internet, is like winning the special olympics. I decline the honor, though the group itself is an honorable and precious group. And of course, my boys come from a precious group. I feel so much compassion and love for them....

porcelaine -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/25/2010 7:18:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Perhaps I should have phrased that differently because we seem to be at cross purposes. Feminism can be driven by philanthropy. It'd be nonsense to say otherwise. But you appear to have difficulty understanding that it isn't the motivation behind my philanthropic pursuits. quote: - That would make you a feminist. What I find baffling is why you appear determined to label me. It's peculiar in all truth. I could be a girl with extra change that enjoys spreading that around. There are a lot of possibilities. How strange you limit yourself to this one. ~porcelaine

PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/25/2010 8:28:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Perhaps I should have phrased that differently because we seem to be at cross purposes. Feminism can be driven by philanthropy. It'd be nonsense to say otherwise. But you appear to have difficulty understanding that it isn't the motivation behind my philanthropic pursuits. quote: - That would make you a feminist. What I find baffling is why you appear determined to label me. It's peculiar in all truth. I could be a girl with extra change that enjoys spreading that around. There are a lot of possibilities. How strange you limit yourself to this one. ~porcelaine porcelaine, When you say 'I have always been an advocate for the furtherance of women in society' that, to me, just does make you a feminist. You're not the sort of feminist that you hate or fear, you're a different kind of feminist. When you say that you want to help women and children, that makes you a feminist, plus something else (someting creditable, in my book). A person who wants to help all of humanity is someone I'd call a philanthropist. None of those labels is anything to be scared of. I'm happy to call myself a feminist. I'd feel as though I were boasting to call myself a philanthropist - that's probably a grander label than I'll ever deserve. You brought up the subject of why there's an anti-feminist bias in your OP. This, to me, is the fundamental reason why: the term has become so firmly glued to a narrow, disrespectable definition of it that most people, now, want to dissociate themselves from it. The first and best way to beat your enemy is to get its various members to fight each other, instead of you. This is the good old 'divide and conquer' policy, used to great effect by thousands of governments since Roman times. But - OK. We'll have to agree to differ. It's my privilege to continue to think of you as a feminist (something I can't avoid doing anyway, I have to say); it's yours not to accept that label.

crazyml -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 12:08:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial aI'm not going to read the postings on this topic, just take note: feminism is the hatred of women. You're joking, surely? That's a pretty silly thing to say. quote: The long drawn out effect of feminism, and it's direct corollary, the sexual revolution, is to trash women's lives and their happiness, and thus to trash men's lives and their happiness, and most importantly! to trash children's lives, period. If I had a better keyboard, I'd elaborate. Do you have access to a better keyboard, an elaboration of this thinking would surely be a fascinating read! How do you feel about the female vote, property rights, equal standing in the law? Are these all acts of hatred? quote: Gloria Steinem would be the first to tell you, she had a dysfunctional childhood, she basically took care of her mentally ill mother by herself, in a rat-infested home, for YEARS. She didn't even attend elementary and high school on a regular basis. Her family more or less abandoned her and her mother. Then, when a man wanted to marry her, and she was pregnant, the thought of any responsibility for someone else was too much for her. She wanted her freedom. Given her past, I don't blame her. She had an abortion. She foisted her sickness on the culture at large. A person with such a grossly dysfunctional childhood should have no influence on our culture, only our compassion and mercy. I'm sure you're aware that Stieinem isn't the only feminist? Good luck to you, it seems to me that you're in need of our compassion and mercy, and that this thread (to paraphrase Steinem) needs your contribution like a fish needs a bicycle.

crazyml -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 12:11:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Hey porcelaine, Ya know, I think you may be subconsciously a feminist ;-) The analogy you used doesn't quite work.. Or maybe it's easier for you to think of me as such. Is the other idea too difficult to swallow? I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why the difference must be scrutinized. ~porcelaine Well - I did say it tongue in cheek - but since you mention it - Yes, I think that you probably are a feminist by many people's definition. I'm guess I'm having a hard time understanding why you're so opposed to the label?

Elisabella -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 2:56:35 AM)
quote: When you say 'I have always been an advocate for the furtherance of women in society' that, to me, just does make you a feminist. You're not the sort of feminist that you hate or fear, you're a different kind of feminist. When you say that you want to help women and children, that makes you a feminist, plus something else (someting creditable, in my book). A person who wants to help all of humanity is someone I'd call a philanthropist. None of those labels is anything to be scared of. I'm happy to call myself a feminist. I'd feel as though I were boasting to call myself a philanthropist - that's probably a grander label than I'll ever deserve. Feminism is a historical movement as well as a self identity. If you really believe women should have the choice to define themselves and their lives you should not try to redefine their self identity to further your -ism. Just sayin.

splorff -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 3:30:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear I find that when you use courtesies and show some modicum of respect, it eventually comes back and even can and indeed oft does encourages others to follow suite. Times have changed so much in my own lifetime. As a boy on a bus, I didn't need to be told to give my seat up for a lady. She didn't need to old,infirm or have heavy bags. It was the done thing then. The behaviour seemed to end somewhere in the seventies with ideas of equality. I still do it. Recently I gave my seat to a lady in a public place, and the whole room seemed to notice. Shame there was no young men within. I agree, we can change the behaviour of others by example.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 3:48:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Feminism is a historical movement as well as a self identity. Yes . . . true. I've not argued against that. It's the movement of those who have been, or are, 'advocates for the furtherance of women in society'. quote: If you really believe women should have the choice to define themselves and their lives you should not try to redefine their self identity to further your -ism. I'm sorry to keep repeating the line, but porcelaine said "I have always been an advocate for the furtherance of women in society." People who have that aim are called 'feminists'. Feminism is her 'ism' as well as mine, as far as I can see. It would stop being her 'ism' if she announced that she didn't want to further the cause of women. I think maybe you're confusing two different senses of the word 'identity'. One sense is about becoming the sort of person you want to be and being free from people forcing you to be less than that. The other is simply about attaching a word to a thing. We do this as soon as we start using language and we need to do it if we're going to use reason. If I see a man with a beard, I'll refer to him as 'bearded'. He may not like that term, preferring instead to refer to his beard as a 'tail' but it's not his privilege to tell me which labels to use. Then again he shouldn't - and probably wouldn't - care.

LaTigresse -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 6:56:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Wow...you are kind of fucked up about women right? Hmm... Let's see.... "fucked up".... such lady-like language -- when talking about women..... If the feminists' goal was to improve women, they either failed, or they succeeded. They think this kind of language by a female is an improvement. I disagree. So little class, so little time..... If being a 'lady' means submitting to some fucked up snotty twats' idea of what a woman should be, including the words I use to express myself......... I will more than happily disassociate myself from any goal of being ladylike. I'd rather be a colourful Broad![:D] I will be in MUCH better company.

Aynne88 -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 7:38:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Wow...you are kind of fucked up about women right? Hmm... Let's see.... "fucked up".... such lady-like language -- when talking about women..... If the feminists' goal was to improve women, they either failed, or they succeeded. They think this kind of language by a female is an improvement. I disagree. So little class, so little time..... If being a 'lady' means submitting to some fucked up snotty twats' idea of what a woman should be, including the words I use to express myself......... I will more than happily disassociate myself from any goal of being ladylike. I'd rather be a colourful Broad![:D] I will be in MUCH better company. [;)]. I love LaT. We are a bunch of cussing colorful broads on LaT's poly ranch. Oh and sassy anteater's too. Oh fuck LaT, I thought the poster insulting me was male, but "snotty twat" makes me rethink that. A woman, even better. Classic.[8\|].

sexyred1 -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 7:42:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: MMercurial quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Wow...you are kind of fucked up about women right? Hmm... Let's see.... "fucked up".... such lady-like language -- when talking about women..... If the feminists' goal was to improve women, they either failed, or they succeeded. They think this kind of language by a female is an improvement. I disagree. So little class, so little time..... If being a 'lady' means submitting to some fucked up snotty twats' idea of what a woman should be, including the words I use to express myself......... I will more than happily disassociate myself from any goal of being ladylike. I'd rather be a colourful Broad![:D] I will be in MUCH better company. LOL. Rock on with your bad self LaT, I totally agree with you. Ladylike is surely in the eye of the beholder. [;)]

Madame4a -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 7:46:17 AM)
I don't see it... and I'd say perhaps your original statement should include.. "in the heterosexual community... " as its hardly an issue in the dyke community..

LaTigresse -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 7:48:21 AM)
I must be honest.......I wasn't directing the 'snotty twats' at that poster. I was directing it about/to ALL people that seem to think women must behave a specific way to be considered a 'lady' and that, that antiquated word/mindset (ladylike), was something to strive for. Fuck that.

mnottertail -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 7:49:25 AM)
women are to be seen and not heard, you twat. XO, Ron

domiguy -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 7:59:47 AM)
women are to be felt, it would be nice if some how they didn't have to be seen or heard from.

xBullx -> RE: The Anti-Feminism Bias (7/26/2010 8:23:56 AM)
"You should beat your woman everyday... Even should you forget why it is that you are doing so, she will not..." I paraphrase this of course, but I think that's how it translates...[:)]

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