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BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 1:52:37 AM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
This is NOT about people who are so addicted to porn that their marriage falls apart...some of you already know my feelings on that.

 
These are the issues I would like to hear opinions on, mostly from male subs and male slaves, but any responses on topic will be welcomed.
 
1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an influence on leading you into the lifestyle?
 
2)  Has reading BDSM porn help you to understand yourself better, your needs and dreams...in such a way that it helped you when you started scening r/t?
 
3)  Did reading BDSM porn stories cause any difficulties, by programming you into thinking Dommes behaved in certain ways, that subs/slaves had to behave in certain ways...anything that clashed with your r/t and made it more difficult than it had to be?
 
4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what Dommes said because you tried too hard to be the perfect sub...just like in all those stories?  Think of it as a problem with language processing; when she said one thing, did you use your past knowledge of BDSM porn to interpret what she was "really" saying?
 
I will never have dangly parts.  I am not used to looking at porn and have not read BDSM porn stories...until now, because I want to understand more about what shaped a male submissive's thoughts.  Educate me.
 
Thanks in advance to anyone who will try to help me with this.

< Message edited by CynthiaWVirginia -- 7/27/2010 1:57:36 AM >
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RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 2:20:17 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
CynthiaWVirginia,

--- 1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an
--- influence on leading you into the lifestyle?

Yes.  Absolutely.  In fact, were it not for reading The Story of O at an extremely young age (granted, this work isn't a realistic template for BDSM relationships), I may not have started exploring.  Mind you, I do tend to think kinky people are wired as such so perhaps, though O was the catalyst, something else might have equally appealed to me.

--- 2)  Has reading BDSM porn helped you to
--- understand yourself better, your needs and
--- dreams... in such a way that it helped you
--- when you started scening r/t?

Short answer:  no.

More detailed answer:  reading (and looking) at this kind of material is sometimes a turn-on and it can introduce ideas I've not thought of before.  Much of what is shown in BDSM porn isn't realistic and is accomplished with props.  Also, of course, the stuff is riddled with stereotypes and imagery that has little to do with consensual play and/or consensual BDSM relationships.  There is a category of BDSM porn that is not so much pornographic as simply an engineering challenge or something for intense, shock value.  Much of what Kink.com does and the (now defunct) InSex.com featured material like this.  When using porn of any kind for ideas and to engage the fantasy mind, I think it's important to approach this recognizing much of it is far removed from reality, just as Hollywood movies are far removed from reality.  One can glean high-level, conceptual ideas, but to literally translate a lot of what is in BDSM porn into real life is infeasible and undesirable.

I'd say the biggest thing that helped me understand my needs is getting out in my local, BDSM community, attending events, talking with others, and actually having BDSM relationships.  The most important realization I've come to is meeting people in BDSM isn't different from vanilla relationships.  The courtesies, kindnesses, communication skills, and a whole bunch of other things are exactly the same because, whether kinksters want to admit this or not, we're a subset of the vanilla world and there's a whole lotta' vanilla in all of us.  A kiss is still a kiss, regardless of whether you wrap it in D/s or girl-next-door goodness.  (Of course, kinksters might perv out on the girl-next-door, putting her in bondage, tormenting her, and whipping her until she begged to be kissed... provided she consented to all of this.  None-the-less, I think my point is clear. :-)

--- 3)  Did reading BDSM porn stories cause
--- any difficulties, by programming you into
--- thinking Dommes behaved in certain ways,
--- that subs/slaves had to behave in certain
--- ways... anything that clashed with your r/t
--- and made it more difficult than it had to be?

Ironically, it wasn't BDSM porn that clashed with my real time/real life experiences.  Even at young age, I always had a good handle on the fact porn is porn and is not desirable/realistic for real life.  I've never expected people to behave as depicted in this material.  What did clash (and hence the irony) is the early encounters I had with dominant women.  Many of these women did things in non-consensual ways and/or used their position and my newness to manipulate me in unhealthy ways.  Also, unfortunately, I ran into a number of pseudo pro dommes - those of the unethical variety who don't disclose up front that they're looking for fees and professional encounters.  During my initial forays into BDSM, the dominant women I met spoke very badly for dominant women as a whole.  Consequently, I made the mistake of thinking all dommes were just calculated, coldhearted usurers.  Fortunately, as time went on, I did meet dominant women who impressed me with their integrity, kindness, humanity, balance, and leadership skills.  That changed the world for me because up to that point I thought the dominant woman I wanted to meet didn't exist.

--- 4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what
--- Dommes said because you tried too hard
--- to be the perfect sub... just like in all those
--- stories?  Think of it as a problem with
--- language processing; when she said one
--- thing, did you use your past knowledge of
--- BDSM porn to interpret what she was
--- "really" saying?

No to all the above.  However, I did have some unrealistic expectations that were developed between my partners and myself.  We "kinked out" on the notion of absolute 24/7 BDSM.  In reality, this is very hard to achieve for both the dominant and the s-type, and not that desirable either.  There's a big difference between respectful, positive BDSM dynamics that are always there yet not necessarily always at the forefront and 24/7 micromanagement.  I don't know too many dommes (if any) who want to be in constant management mode.  And, indeed, it's nice when your partner can take initiative and manage themselves while still respecting agreed upon dynamics and responsibilities.

--- I will never have dangly parts.  I am not used
--- to looking at porn and have not read BDSM
--- porn stories... until now, because I want to
--- understand more about what shaped a male
--- submissive's thoughts.  Educate me.

Respectfully, I'd say it's a mistake to think BDSM porn is what shapes male submissives' minds.  Also, I think it's important to distinguish between Internet oriented, drive-by submissives (commonly called wankers and "do-me boys" here on CM) and submissives who have spent a great deal of time in self reflection and learning about BDSM and submission in real life.

While The Story of O did get me thinking about BDSM, in general, BDSM porn has very little to do with what shapes me as a submissive.  Outwardly, I don't dress in fetish attire and I could care less whether my partner does either.  I prefer my partner to wear whatever she is comfortable in and whatever makes her feel good.  Inwardly, while kinky, sexy stories can be a turn-on, they have very little bearing on what connects with me emotionally and on how I communicate with my partner.  Indeed, the high-heel wearing, "it's all about me", uber bitch domme" often shown in porn is of no interest to me whatsoever.

Using the Hollywood movie metaphor once again, BDSM porn is salacious entrainment in the same way, to a lesser degree, Hollywood action movies are.  A domme wanting to know how my mind works and what inspires my submission would be well served reading about MBTI (Meyers Briggs Type Analysis) and the skills and desires of those who choose to follow instead of lead.  There are quite a few books on leadership, but I can't think of one that reflects the executive assistant.  Still, that's how I generally identify in my BDSM relationships - as a well balanced, extremely capable, loving, executive assistant.

About dangly parts and reading porn, and dangly parts and submission... I don't believe there are any correlations.  Not that this is a statistically valid sampling, but of the kinky men and women I know (dominants, switches, and submissives), some enjoy porn and some don't.  It's just as likely one of my female friends enjoys porn as does one of my male friends.  All my kinky friends enjoy pervy, BDSM-oriented images and images that are just plain sexy.  Sometimes these images can be quite edgy.  I won't define "edgy" (because this isn't instrumental to the conversation) other than to clarify I'm not talking about just nudity.  Nudity may be involved, but often it's a look or a particular activity that captures interest.

--- Thanks in advance to anyone who
--- will try to help me with this.

You're welcome. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
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RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 3:55:57 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline
I do not have dangling parts, but I do enjoy porn.

Porn has affected me like anything else I choose to put in front of my eyes affects me.  It stimulates me.  Thus far it hasn't shaped my reality or how I relate to a dominant.  Honestly, I doubt that it affects the majority of male submissives as much as you are implying in your last paragraph.

If you take time to *think* about what is passing before your eyes, you can put it where it belongs --- 'fantasy' 'reality' 'i'd like to try that' 'hell no.'  etc

I'll be interested in hearing the submissive male perspective more.


_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
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RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 4:01:14 PM   
KyttynTheMynx


Posts: 4880
Joined: 5/10/2006
From: Moosecrotch, Va
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia

This is NOT about people who are so addicted to porn that their marriage falls apart...some of you already know my feelings on that.

 
These are the issues I would like to hear opinions on, mostly from male subs and male slaves, but any responses on topic will be welcomed.
 
1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an influence on leading you into the lifestyle? Nope.
 
2)  Has reading BDSM porn help you to understand yourself better, your needs and dreams...in such a way that it helped you when you started scening r/t? No, not really. Its too..."fantastical" sometimes, so I tried to not associate the two.
 
3)  Did reading BDSM porn stories cause any difficulties, by programming you into thinking Dommes behaved in certain ways, that subs/slaves had to behave in certain ways...anything that clashed with your r/t and made it more difficult than it had to be? Nope. I have always been in close touch with reality, in that people act however they are gonna act.
 
4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what Dommes said because you tried too hard to be the perfect sub...just like in all those stories?  Think of it as a problem with language processing; when she said one thing, did you use your past knowledge of BDSM porn to interpret what she was "really" saying? When someone says something to me, I listen and use the listening skills that I was given, and not try to think like someone from a story.
 
I will never have dangly parts.  I am not used to looking at porn and have not read BDSM porn stories...until now, because I want to understand more about what shaped a male submissive's thoughts.  Educate me.
 
Thanks in advance to anyone who will try to help me with this.


_____________________________

Hibbie's Hottie

The next time you think I give a fuck, remember the 3 F's... Unless you are Feeding me, Financing me, or Fucking me, I don't give a fuck!!

"Kyttyn: The Other White Meat!" - DRH

10 Miles of Hot Chocolate Lovin'.

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
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RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 4:14:20 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
Interesting series of questions. Female sub here, but a lot of male submissives read this section, so I'm sure you'll get lots of the responses you want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia

This is NOT about people who are so addicted to porn that their marriage falls apart...some of you already know my feelings on that.

 
These are the issues I would like to hear opinions on, mostly from male subs and male slaves, but any responses on topic will be welcomed.
 
1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an influence on leading you into the lifestyle?
 

Yes, a seminal influence. Without that reading I may not have become conscious of myself as a submissive. This was in the pre-internet days. Books and magazines, whether pornography or not, whre the primary media. This stuff wasn't in the movies, except in ways so subtle they escaped most. I think things are different now. Anyone who goes online bumps into bdsm. It's everywhere. After the internet became popular, I had been enslaved about six years. I greatly enjoyed looking at porn imagery through that medium, but I greatly prefer still pictures that capture an instant in time over videos. I am very imaginative and the stories I make up in my head when viewing a photograph are orders of magnitude hotter than any story I've seen told in a bdsm video. Also, in many bdsm videos the acting is so fake and there's so much boring vanilla sex, that the films are actually a direct turn-off.


2)  Has reading BDSM porn help you to understand yourself better, your needs and dreams...in such a way that it helped you when you started scening r/t?
 

I never scened. But it helped me before I found a master and helped me realize I needed a master. The most reassuring thing about the pornographic novels for me was the realization that I wasn't the only person in the world who had these extreme fantasies.


3)  Did reading BDSM porn stories cause any difficulties, by programming you into thinking Dommes behaved in certain ways, that subs/slaves had to behave in certain ways...anything that clashed with your r/t and made it more difficult than it had to be?

A little bit of that, yes, about dominants in general. For instance, the compassion and understanding my master expressed toward me was an unexpected but certainly not unwanted surprise. For porn to be hot, the dominant characters are often made quite cold, as that provides an extreme contrast (suffering) that, when read, is quite exciting. In real life, if one actually experienced a contrast that extreme (thinking of deSade's writings), it might kill erotic feelings because the trauma would be so intense it would drown them out. Not that that isn't nice once in a while, but in most porn novels, it's neverending.


4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what Dommes said because you tried too hard to be the perfect sub...just like in all those stories?  Think of it as a problem with language processing; when she said one thing, did you use your past knowledge of BDSM porn to interpret what she was "really" saying?

No. I thought the subs in the stories I read were kind of stupid and in some instances, very selfish and self-centered. I didn't want to be like them. Hearing what was actually ordered, understanding what was actually wanted (as opposed to what I wnated to hear or understand) was a high priority for me, something I worked hard on. I had become familiar before I became a slave. jpwever. with some techniques that help with that, so I had a bit of an edge. I hear from other Dommes that what you are describing happens a lot with new prospects, and is a big reason why these prospects don't become their actual submissives.


 
I will never have dangly parts.  I am not used to looking at porn and have not read BDSM porn stories...until now, because I want to understand more about what shaped a male submissive's thoughts.  Educate me.

Obviously, I can't educate your about porn from a male perspective, just from a female enthusiast's perspective. But it might be useful to contrast my responses with what the males say. I and them both enjoy bdsm porn. Perhaps the differences in the ways we enjoy it are gender-based.



_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
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RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 4:26:15 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
Junecleaver and Everyone,

quote:

junecleaver:
I'll be interested in hearing the submissive male perspective more.


In case it's not clear from my post at the beginning of the thread (and for those that don't know me), I'm a male submissive. :-)

Elan.

< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 7/27/2010 4:32:19 PM >

(in reply to junecleaver)
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RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 6:45:23 PM   
GambitLeBeau


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Lancashire, UK
Status: offline
1) I'd say so, yes. I'm young enough to have been brought up with the internet, and it certainly helped me develop and understand what it was I enjoyed.
2) Again, yes- it was the main way I developed my ideas, fantasies and what my likes and dislikes were. I'm nowhere near fully developed as a submissive, but I had an idea of what I wanted to try when it became active in the reality of BDSM.
3) I think maybe a little. I worked out very recently that certain desires were more fantasy than reality, and that despite my enjoyment of them, it wouldn't be plausible within a real, loving BDSM relationship. Things like my desire for force, or true degradation- they're roleplay fantasies, not something that can work too well in a healthy BDSM relationship.
4) No, I don't believe so- When it came down to it, I was more interested in learning from and enjoying the experiences I've had than trying to replace them with the fantasy in my head.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
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RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 9:55:11 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Thank you for your feedback, ElanSubdued.
 
I am beginning to feel like I am the only person here who didn't "discover" BDSM through BDSM porn pix, BDSM movies, or BDSM stories.  Friends dragged me here, after I was embarrassed to death and confused over being aroused from being threatened with a birthday spank.   Wow, what an enlightening day that was.
 
I am reading from the BDSM Library site a story called The Reluctant Pony, and am starting Chapter 9.  I am delightfully surprised so far, as it seems to be a sort of predicament bondage situation.  Nobody is evil or unkind, there have been no penetrative sexual acts.  I am so SURPRISED because I assumed it would be fully loaded with all the cliches I heard of and expected to find.  I thought I would be leaping up off of my chair every few minutes to scream or retch.
 
A few times I have rolled my eyes because of one sentence here or there that a woman would either have to be demented (or a male) to say...or else playing up to a male crowd and ensuring misconceptions stay firmly embedded in our culture.  Not once did I jump from my chair with an, "Ewwwwh!" or "No fricking way!" or just "SQUICK!"  So now I know that not all "porn" is the lowest filth of the earth that encourages vile acts...sometimes BDSM porn is a seduction.
 
quote:

Much of what is shown in BDSM porn isn't realistic and is accomplished with props.  Also, of course, the stuff is riddled with stereotypes and imagery that has little to do with consensual play and/or consensual BDSM relationships.

Then I am very glad not to be getting the visuals.  Vanilla porn was bad enough. 
 
quote:

When using porn of any kind for ideas and to engage the fantasy mind, I think it's important to approach this recognizing much of it is far removed from reality, just as Hollywood movies are far removed from reality.  One can glean high-level, conceptual ideas, but to literally translate a lot of what is in BDSM porn into real life is infeasible and undesirable.

This is a good thing for people to keep in mind, that porn is fantasy and to slow down, talk things over a lot, and to take things in baby steps. 
 
quote:

I'd say the biggest thing that helped me understand my needs is getting out in my local, BDSM community, attending events, talking with others, and actually having BDSM relationships.

The dozens of men I've met from CollarMe over the past almost 6 years now have been...newbies, mostly.  Munches are usually 2-3 hours away and they refuse to go alone, if at all.  Most have been afraid of being recognised.  I'm in a tiny town, and dotted all through the mountains are other tiny towns, so I can understand their feelings.  A lot of us have no events to go to, so we talk with others and...meet up and have BDSM relationships without ever having gone to a munch.  I am so envious of online friends who live in Atlanta, or New York, or NOLA. 
 
quote:

Ironically, it wasn't BDSM porn that clashed with my real time/real life experiences.  Even at young age, I always had a good handle on the fact porn is porn and is not desirable/realistic for real life.  I've never expected people to behave as depicted in this material.  What did clash (and hence the irony) is the early encounters I had with dominant women.  Many of these women did things in non-consensual ways and/or used their position and my newness to manipulate me in unhealthy ways.  Also, unfortunately, I ran into a number of pseudo pro dommes - those of the unethical variety who don't disclose up front that they're looking for fees and professional encounters.  During my initial forays into BDSM, the dominant women I met spoke very badly for dominant women as a whole.  Consequently, I made the mistake of thinking all dommes were just calculated, coldhearted usurers.

Okay, so this is also something that I have had to deal with but didn't quite recognise the source of the damage.  Somehow, I only thought of these women as being online and easily blocked, not considering the damage done in my community and with the submissives I have been interested in.  Now I can understand why I can almost feel self loathing with some of the resentment I see with new submissive males here at CollarMe.  How would a man feel about himself if driven to want something dangerous, unhealthy, to used in a bad way without any caring safety net, guidance, or decent aftercare.
 
quote:

Fortunately, as time went on, I did meet dominant women who impressed me with their integrity, kindness, humanity, balance, and leadership skills.  That changed the world for me because up to that point I thought the dominant woman I wanted to meet didn't exist.

This made me smile because of an epiphany I just had.
 
quote:

There's a big difference between respectful, positive BDSM dynamics that are always there yet not necessarily always at the forefront and 24/7 micromanagement.  I don't know too many dommes (if any) who want to be in constant management mode.

So some people see BDSM porn and mistakenly believe that to be a sub or slave 24/7, one has to be micromanaged.  Hm.  That would be a hurdle to have to get over, unlearning one's expectations and seeing what is liveable.  I have known people who are 24/7 and do not micromanage, each couple seems to define their own unique relationship.
 
quote:

Respectfully, I'd say it's a mistake to think BDSM porn is what shapes male submissives' minds.  Also, I think it's important to distinguish between Internet oriented, drive-by submissives (commonly called wankers and "do-me boys" here on CM) and submissives who have spent a great deal of time in self reflection and learning about BDSM and submission in real life.

I believe it has some influence though, especially if he uses it frequently for fantasy while masturbating, and isn't really aware that his sexuality is getting even more...unvanilla.  Someone in the message boards once told me that most men come here in the beginning as horney net geeks but in the end turn out to be sincere real timers.  It's a matter of how far along in their walk they are.  It's hard to separate the true trolls and hard core "do-me boys" from the newbie who hasn't learned the ropes nor any manners yet.
 
quote:

A domme wanting to know how my mind works and what inspires my submission would be well served reading about MBTI (Meyers Briggs Type Analysis) and the skills and desires of those who choose to follow instead of lead.  There are quite a few books on leadership, but I can't think of one that reflects the executive assistant.

I've had work experience with management and behavior mod, as well as a keen interest in reading.  I agree that someone must be worthy of leading and have skills...but sometimes a manager needs to know what motivates and inspires the employees.  If my potential sub needed a Domme who had read MBTI or something similar, then it would be wise to do so.  Some of us learn skills through other routes...jobs, or by raising disabled children.
 
quote:

About dangly parts and reading porn, and dangly parts and submission... I don't believe there are any correlations.

This was not a blanket assumption on my part, but a targeted question directed at people who felt that reading BDSM porn might have affected them in some way, whether for better or worse.  I asked because in my area, submissive men and BDSM porn seem to go hand in hand...and being the nice, casually dressed with no kink wardrobe, sane, consensual Domme that has taught and topped these newbies, and been their bridge from online into r/t...this subject has concerned me and I wanted to get a better understanding of what I am dealing with.

Thank you again, Elan, for answering and bringing up other issues for me to ponder.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 10:25:11 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Hello, junecleaver, and thank you for your input.
quote:

I do not have dangling parts, but I do enjoy porn.
  Good.  I miss my old friends who dragged me here that used to make CGI porn <grins>.     I miss those pervs.

quote:

Porn has affected me like anything else I choose to put in front of my eyes affects me.  It stimulates me.  Thus far it hasn't shaped my reality or how I relate to a dominant.
 
Then it is fantasy enjoyment for you and nothing else.  

quote:

Honestly, I doubt that it affects the majority of male submissives as much as you are implying in your last paragraph.

I wouldn't have thought so either, but there you go.  Every blessed man I've been in r/t contact with from CollarMe these past years have all been wallowing around in BDSM porn and have their head full of dreams and expectations.  Laptops are dragged out, sites logged into...and I am shown what they would love to try out when they bottom for me or possibly become my sub.  I have never slapped someone down for showing me his dreams.  I am also firm about using the word NO, as well as being a teacher of sorts. 
 
I enjoyed many bottoms and have had several subs.  I am not implying, I am making a statement that in my area, this has been my experience. 
 
I haven't polled the guys at CollarMe yet...oh wait!  Yessss!  I just now have.

quote:

If you take time to *think* about what is passing before your eyes, you can put it where it belongs --- 'fantasy' 'reality' 'i'd like to try that' 'hell no.'  etc

I will assume you were not referring to me when you said "you", as your statement would be a good read for newbies who have been wanking off or had their head in the clouds over BDSM porn stories. 

quote:

I'll be interested in hearing the submissive male perspective more.

So am I.  Two shy guys I contacted promised to post here, but I think they would rather send their answers into my mailbox.

< Message edited by CynthiaWVirginia -- 7/27/2010 10:26:43 PM >

(in reply to junecleaver)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 10:36:29 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Hello KyttynTheMynx.
 
I appreciate hearing your opinion, I guess that BDSM (written) porn stories didn't affect you.
 
All this also makes me wonder what all the heck people are watching when they refer to this bizarre, totally unreal porn.  I really don't want to find out (shudders).  The small amount I have seen or read about was do-able and mild.
 
Some of the BDSM stories remind me of many Harlequin Presents I used to read as a little girl.  No kissing until the last page...no tongue, no sex either, lol, but lots of D/s and (mental/emotional) predicament tortures.

(in reply to KyttynTheMynx)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 11:16:00 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Hello CaringandReal, I love that little bonsai pic you have for your profile and avatar.  I covet one, but my cats would find some way to pee on it.
 
quote:

The most reassuring thing about the pornographic novels for me was the realization that I wasn't the only person in the world who had these extreme fantasies.

Thank you for this.
 
quote:

A little bit of that, yes, about dominants in general. For instance, the compassion and understanding my master expressed toward me was an unexpected but certainly not unwanted surprise.

(Big smile.)  Very good point.  I hope some of the new sub males come in and read your post.  Anything I would try to add to that would only diminish it.
 
quote:

For porn to be hot, the dominant characters are often made quite cold, as that provides an extreme contrast (suffering) that, when read, is quite exciting. In real life, if one actually experienced a contrast that extreme (thinking of deSade's writings), it might kill erotic feelings because the trauma would be so intense it would drown them out. Not that that isn't nice once in a while, but in most porn novels, it's neverending.

What would get to me is having the dominant's caretaking be so addictive that the submissive can't help but suffer all the more because of the depth of feelings involved.  I couldn't get into deSade, and that book on the prince in the Sleeping Beauty trilogy made me stop reading soon cuz I was laughing so hard and saying balderdash!  If that's what they serve up in porn novels then I am so glad someone steered me to this one I am enjoying very much...so far.  I hope it doesn't devolve into something tedious.
 
Some of the best "BDSM porn" books I read were from long ago paperbacks without sex or lifestyle stuff.  Heavy on D/s and sometimes some spanks, whippings, bondage, and delicious predicaments.
 
quote:

From CynthiaWVirginia:   4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what Dommes said because you tried too hard to be the perfect sub...just like in all those stories?  Think of it as a problem with language processing; when she said one thing, did you use your past knowledge of BDSM porn to interpret what she was "really" saying?
 
From CaringandReal:  I hear from other Dommes that what you are describing happens a lot with new prospects, and is a big reason why these prospects don't become their actual submissives.

Just hearing you say that is a big help...this has been my experience too.  Btw, I have been very lucky and have never had a single person stand me up and be a no show.  Maybe the guys around here have more manners or a keener curiosity
 
I hope that someday there will be enough of us in my area to have a large munch group...not one that has so few members that people rarely show up and so it shuts down.  Slamming newbies will not help me with this goal.  I need to keep working with them but on the other hand, my focus is on one subbie right now and when I have a sub, I stop topping others and only focus on him.  With friendly bottoms, I am cool with having arrangements with several.  I still feel like I live in the butt end of the universe.
 
quote:

Obviously, I can't educate your about porn from a male perspective, just from a female enthusiast's perspective. But it might be useful to contrast my responses with what the males say. I and them both enjoy bdsm porn. Perhaps the differences in the ways we enjoy it are gender-based. 

You have been a wonderful help and I am thankful that you decided to give your opinion. 


(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 11:34:09 PM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
The original post seems to aimed at those seeking female dominants, but I'll answer anyhow.

1. Yes, very much so. Not the details so much as the realization that other people had these thoughts, so much so they wrote them down.

2. Yes and no. The earlier stories were more action than interaction, and were essentially unrepentant wank-fodder. They introduced me to new ideas and activities I hadn't thought about before, but not much more.

Later on, I began reading stories that introduced more personal involvement and explored love in a D/s context. These had a much deeper influence on me, and were more "D/s romance" than "porn", really, often going many chapters before any real sex was involved.

I've never been a consumer of "visual" porn, and in that way I'm very atypical for a guy. Written stuff all the way from puberty till now, though with the advent of real-life interaction my consumption has dropped to nil; it just isn't the same as it was before I knew how much more intense reality was.

3. Oh yes. If I was submissive to a guy he had a "right" to ask me anything and order to anything even if following those orders and his actions made me hate myself and plunged me into depression and self-loathing.

I've since learned I can serve a guy without breaking my fundamental core principals and needs in a relationship, and that "contented relationship" and "D/s" relationship don't have to be opposites.

Also, that I don't owe anyone anything just because they choose to identify as "dom" of some variety. ( A lesson the Collarme forums told me, really - thanks folks! )

4. Hearing? No. If I was ordered to do something I did it; if I was unsure of what was wanted I asked for clarification. I've always gravitated towards guys who know what they want and feel free and unhampered in doing so.

In some ways me and subtle people of any sort are a poor match. You can hint a million ways but unless you tell me ( or better yet, order me ) you'll never get what you're wanting.

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/27/2010 11:41:32 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Hello, GambitLeBeau, thank you for coming here and helping me out with your opinion.
 
quote:

2) Again, yes- it was the main way I developed my ideas, fantasies and what my likes and dislikes were. I'm nowhere near fully developed as a submissive, but I had an idea of what I wanted to try when it became active in the reality of BDSM.

Very good.  I have started studying some of the milder porn stories (written) to see what men have been downloading and thinking about.  Some perspectives are so...male...that I do a double take.  Not saying I have been squicked, or that it has been too deep into fantasy to ever be safely recreated...just...alien.

quote:

3) I think maybe a little. I worked out very recently that certain desires were more fantasy than reality, and that despite my enjoyment of them, it wouldn't be plausible within a real, loving BDSM relationship. Things like my desire for force, or true degradation- they're roleplay fantasies, not something that can work too well in a healthy BDSM relationship.

You brought up something very important that I have been trying to understand.  Degradation.  This has been on my hard limits list, but now...I'm wondering.  If a relationship has a very strong foundation, could this occasionally come into play without causing harm?  There is sometimes a world of difference between what a man thinks he will need and what may actually harm him emotionally.  
 
Would putting something within a clearly defined, well prepared for roleplay make any of this safer, easier, and less likely to be a destructive influence?  I am also aware that some things can trigger unexpected emotions, and that more aftercare and careful watching for days afterward would be needed. 

Or do you think that some of the things you mentioned should never be done in healthy, loving relationships?  You could be right about some things being too risky emotionally. 
 
quote:

4) No, I don't believe so- When it came down to it, I was more interested in learning from and enjoying the experiences I've had than trying to replace them with the fantasy in my head.

Aw, sounds like you had a good time.  Glad to hear that. 



< Message edited by CynthiaWVirginia -- 7/27/2010 11:50:51 PM >

(in reply to GambitLeBeau)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/28/2010 12:35:14 AM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
Thank you, WestBaySlave, for giving your opinion.  I targeted the types I am usually dealing with but anyone was invited to jump right in...also, you are a male sub who has read BDSM porn so that is an added bonus. 
 
I will respond within your quote box with this color.
quote:

ORIGINAL: WestBaySlave

The original post seems to aimed at those seeking female dominants, but I'll answer anyhow.

1. Yes, very much so. Not the details so much as the realization that other people had these thoughts, so much so they wrote them down.  So these do serve a good purpose, other than the obvious.

2. Yes and no. The earlier stories were more action than interaction, and were essentially unrepentant wank-fodder. They introduced me to new ideas and activities I hadn't thought about before, but not much more.  So, what you first waded into was "new ideas and activities" that helped you discover what appealed to you and what blatantly did not. 

Later on, I began reading stories that introduced more personal involvement and explored love in a D/s context. These had a much deeper influence on me, and were more "D/s romance" than "porn", really, often going many chapters before any real sex was involved.
Your distinction between what both of them taught you is giving me another epiphany, and it is making me want to do a Snoopy dance.  These stories, that were more "D/s romance" than "porn" had a much deeper influence on you and helped you grow emotionally...and did not hinder your growth or make things more difficult? 

I've never been a consumer of "visual" porn, and in that way I'm very atypical for a guy. Written stuff all the way from puberty till now, though with the advent of real-life interaction my consumption has dropped to nil; it just isn't the same as it was before I knew how much more intense reality was.  I might also know someone who is atypical for a guy.  So basically, a man's taste in BDSM porn/literature can give me a reading on what level he has reached...if he is into bedroom kink or really needs the emotional aspects of D/s?  I'll assume yes unless you say no, and I know this would just be in general and not be true of every blessed male submissive.

3. Oh yes. If I was submissive to a guy he had a "right" to ask me anything and order to anything even if following those orders and his actions made me hate myself and plunged me into depression and self-loathing(Watches the Red Sea part and almost feels dizzy.)  Yesssss, this is what I needed to know.  I believe I have also been running into #4 mixed with this.  An assumption triggering what you just said, from an order or expectation that I didn't give and wasn't aware of.  It's also hard to intervene when someone is selfpunishing when I am not made aware that this is happening for a while. 

I've since learned I can serve a guy without breaking my fundamental core principals and needs in a relationship, and that "contented relationship" and "D/s" relationship don't have to be opposites.

Also, that I don't owe anyone anything just because they choose to identify as "dom" of some variety. ( A lesson the Collarme forums told me, really - thanks folks! )  Glad to hear this.

4. Hearing? No. If I was ordered to do something I did it; if I was unsure of what was wanted I asked for clarification. I've always gravitated towards guys who know what they want and feel free and unhampered in doing so.  Good, but I wonder if you will still be that straight forward when you are older and stubborn and set in your ways I am clear and specific to the Nth degree, but sometimes...my lips are moving but the guys are hearing someone else's more familiar words, and then I have to go all mamma bear on them and growl quietly.

In some ways me and subtle people of any sort are a poor match. You can hint a million ways but unless you tell me ( or better yet, order me ) you'll never get what you're wanting. 
I think I am as subtle as a ton of bricks.



Thank you.  You made a point in there that differentiated between BDSM porn stories that jumped straight into sex and weirdness, and ones that were mostly about D/s with the rest brought into the story in appropriate and nicely done ways.

(in reply to WestBaySlave)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 7/28/2010 11:14:06 PM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
Thanks for the reply!

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
So, what you first waded into was "new ideas and activities" that helped you discover what appealed to you and what blatantly did not. 


Yes - it fleshed out my sexual imaginings, so to speak.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Your distinction between what both of them taught you is giving me another epiphany, and it is making me want to do a Snoopy dance.  These stories, that were more "D/s romance" than "porn" had a much deeper influence on you and helped you grow emotionally...and did not hinder your growth or make things more difficult? 


They weren't tantamount to real-time experience, but they gave me a template where I could link "love" with "dominance" in a way that didn't contradict each other, in fact, reinforced each other. Some of them were still very unrealistic ( porn, well - it drifts towards extremes at times ), and many weren't even trying to be ( "magic" and unrealistic biology can explain a lot away in fantasy land ), but it was a big step forward from the stuff I'd read before that was "use and abuse" and not much more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
So basically, a man's taste in BDSM porn/literature can give me a reading on what level he has reached...if he is into bedroom kink or really needs the emotional aspects of D/s?  I'll assume yes unless you say no, and I know this would just be in general and not be true of every blessed male submissive.


I have less experience with submissives' fantasies than dominant's, but when I think of everyone I've met, exploring someone's fantasy life ( whether in terms of what they consume or what's going on in their head ) can tell you so very much about what someone wants in real life and how they "think" about a D/s situation.

Conversely, maybe a guy gets turned on by the idea of getting beaten by a woman, and it never does go further than that and that's all he's seeking. I guess that's the only risk of seeing things in stages - one person's stage just might be another person's end point!

For me, my first sub thoughts and my first sub actions were separated by about nine years where a lot of learning and internal development occurred. I went from a few very kinky thoughts about certain acts to wanting a complex D/s relationship, and I feel that growth has continued as I've gained real-time experience in the past few years. Pornographic material helped me in some ways, mislead me in others, but all in all was a part of that process.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
(Watches the Red Sea part and almost feels dizzy.)  Yesssss, this is what I needed to know.  I believe I have also been running into #4 mixed with this.  An assumption triggering what you just said, from an order or expectation that I didn't give and wasn't aware of.  It's also hard to intervene when someone is selfpunishing when I am not made aware that this is happening for a while. 


Communication and honesty is so very important. If a sub is new and insecure they may be afraid of turning off the dominant, as I know I certainly was, and bringing up what troubles them may be the last thing they feel like doing. A simple yes to an order can mean so many things - everything from "yes, and I love doing this for you", to "yes, doesn't matter to me either, so why not", all the way to "yes, but it's ripping me apart inside to do this".

People can be harmed unintentionally by doms who do care don't know. Alternately, harmed by doms who do know and don't care, and these are people I avoid ( and I mean harm in the sense of a negative influence, rather than S/M ). Until you really know someone I find it's just not safe to make assumptions on either side of the coin, I've found - communication means so much! :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Good, but I wonder if you will still be that straight forward when you are older and stubborn and set in your ways I am clear and specific to the Nth degree, but sometimes...my lips are moving but the guys are hearing someone else's more familiar words, and then I have to go all mamma bear on them and growl quietly.


I imagine if someone has served one person for a considerable period there are things that just become "automatic" when getting into a s-headspace that might not actually be what's wanted. Even though I'm quite young and "new" in some ways, each past dom has effected how I sub for the next in subtle ways.



(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 8/14/2010 2:07:13 PM   
kinkyhill


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline
1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an influence on leading you into the lifestyle?

Yes MsCynthia BDSM porn stories help you to understand your likes and dislikes in the lifestyle, it identifies your kink and narrows your search. BDSM is like a sea, you need to know which fish you need to catch and where you can catch them.  

2)  Has reading BDSM porn help you to understand yourself better, your needs and dreams...in such a way that it helped you when you started scening r/t?
It helps to understand what turns you on and sometimes it can get extreme kinks of your dreams come true virtually which would make you feel good. I believe BDSM is more of the mind, stories help to give you ideas which you can try in real time and others which can't be tried in real time can be envisaged to happen just by reading them.

 
3)  Did reading BDSM porn stories cause any difficulties, by programming you into thinking Dommes behaved in certain ways, that subs/slaves had to behave in certain ways...anything that clashed with your r/t and made it more difficult than it had to be?

Yes MsCynthia, BDSM stories usually have Dommes use sub/slaves with complete domination and control because their role has been created like that but in real, the Domme would know that your a human being and will not do extreme things which would endanger both her and the sub, unless she is a extreme sadist who could be more extreme than the porn story Domme.  Like the saying a perfect couple can be seen only in movies, the perfect Domme on the sub/slaves mind which he envisaged reading the porn stories is never an easy possibility. Like in vanilla something you like to be done in a particular way, wouldn't be done the same way by the domme, this can be disappointing but at the same time there can be sweet surprises from actions which would be her forte which the sub may like her doing on him. In my experience verbal humiliation and voice modulations which a sub sees in a porn story wouldn't happen in a session with a Domme because voice and words in a BDSM play is a real kink which many Dommes don't learn or try to learn. Most dommes think pain and control is real domination, but if they can learn voice modulations with choice of words during the play, would make them sound like the porn story Mistress  the sub dreamt of. 
 
4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what Dommes said because you tried too hard to be the perfect sub...just like in all those stories?  Think of it as a problem with language processing; when she said one thing, did you use your past knowledge of BDSM porn to interpret what she was "really" saying?

If I had trouble hearing what the Domme said, I will beg for pardon for her to repeat what she said before, some subs do like that if the domme would punish the sub or humiliate him for not being alert while she was saying something, in BDSM it can also be termed as "Disobedience" or "Lack of manners" for being inattentive while the domme said something.  If the Domme disdains the sub for the rest of the session that will be the best punishment for making the sub
concentrate when the domme gives instructions. I wouldn't interpret and do something since if i did something incorrect from what she asked that would become a big issue and would be sure lack of manners, which many dommes wouldn't like because mostly dommes consider their time precious and valuable, they would have no time for patience or forgiveness for subs who didn't listen and who act smart by doing something incorrect, she would totally disdain the sub.

 
 
kinkyhill

< Message edited by kinkyhill -- 8/14/2010 2:12:46 PM >

(in reply to WestBaySlave)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 8/14/2010 2:11:50 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline
Forgive me for diagreeing, but I don't think porn can help you know what you like or don't because until you try it in person, you'll never know for a fact weather you'll enjoy something that appeals to you.

For Example,, wax play was really interesting to me, I'd seen it done a bunch of times, it looked neat , and it seemed pretty simple, you use candles that are safe to use, and you light candle up and drop wax on her, making sure to do so from a safe enough distance. The first time I had wax dripped on me, it burnt more than I ever found enjoyable, an yes, it was done from a safe distance away. So we know wax play from a candle is out.  Porn would of never shown me just how much a drop of wax fucking hurt to me.

Unless you meant it could inspire you to try something an learn about it, and then I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkyhill

1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an influence on leading you into the lifestyle?

Yes MsCynthia BDSM porn stories help you to understand your likes and dislikes in the lifestyle, it identifies your kink and narrows your search. BDSM is like a sea, you need to know which fish you need to catch and where you can catch them.  


kinkyhill


_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to kinkyhill)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 8/15/2010 8:21:59 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline
Greetings

quote:

1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an influence on leading you into the lifestyle?


I was born submissive and I would have found BDSM anyway, but yes, porn was influential in my first contacts with BDSM.

quote:

2)  Has reading BDSM porn help you to understand yourself better, your needs and dreams...in such a way that it helped you when you started scening r/t?


Not really no.

quote:

3)  Did reading BDSM porn stories cause any difficulties, by programming you into thinking Dommes behaved in certain ways, that subs/slaves had to behave in certain ways...anything that clashed with your r/t and made it more difficult than it had to be?


No.

quote:

4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what Dommes said because you tried too hard to be the perfect sub...just like in all those stories?  Think of it as a problem with language processing; when she said one thing, did you use your past knowledge of BDSM porn to interpret what she was "really" saying?


Yes but not because of porn. I have Asperger syndrome so my Dom have to often help me and take care of me, and I often feel that do not fit with me being submissive, no matter how many times he tells me otherwise.

quote:

I will never have dangly parts.  I am not used to looking at porn and have not read BDSM porn stories...until now, because I want to understand more about what shaped a male submissive's thoughts.  Educate me.


I am a girl I hope it is ok that I answered. I read porn, watch porn, write porn and sometimes me and Aswad make our own homemade porn. I play porn RPG and computer games. I love porn. It is not just men that enjoy porn.

I wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 8/15/2010 12:55:13 PM   
Wheldrake


Posts: 477
Status: offline
These are the issues I would like to hear opinions on, mostly from male subs and male slaves, but any responses on topic will be welcomed.

Thought I'd give you another male submissive perspective. I enjoy both reading and writing BDSM (and especially femdom) erotica, so I feel reasonably well qualified to comment.
 
1)  Did reading BDSM porn stories have an influence on leading you into the lifestyle?

Only a secondary influence, I think. I had intense submissive and masochistic desires long before I started reading BDSM porn. My early interest was fueled by my own imagination, and by scenes of captivity, torment and domination in non-pornographic books (and movies, for that matter). When I discovered BDSM porn, I suppose it did help me get an idea of what other kinky people liked to fantasise about, and to some extent an idea of what they liked to do. It encouraged some lines of thought, inevitably at the expense of others, and also reassured me that I wasn't alone in my desires.
 
2)  Has reading BDSM porn help you to understand yourself better, your needs and dreams...in such a way that it helped you when you started scening r/t?

Not really, but then, I rarely feel too uncertain about my own "needs and dreams" in the first place. If uncertainty does creep in, I can always go for a long walk and puzzle things out in my own mind. I've never looked at books of any kind as a guide to my own psyche.

3)  Did reading BDSM porn stories cause any difficulties, by programming you into thinking Dommes behaved in certain ways, that subs/slaves had to behave in certain ways...anything that clashed with your r/t and made it more difficult than it had to be?

No, I don't think so. Perhaps it helped that I made the transition from fantasy to reality fairly slowly - as well as reading (and looking at) BDSM porn, I got online and looked at writings by dominant women and other kinksters, some of which conveyed a more realistic picture of the lifestyle than I'd been picking up from fiction. But honestly, I think the main thing was just reading carefully and being able to distinguish between wildly fantastic BDSM stories and ones that seemed more plausible in terms of the actions and motivations of the characters. From some of your comments on this thread I get the idea (and please forgive me if I'm wrong) that you perceive most pornographic writing as relatively extreme and unrealistic. Some BDSM porn is certainly like that, and I can personally enjoy work at that end of the spectrum as long as it's interesting, well-written and logical on its own terms, but other pornographic stories are more grounded in reality. I don't think it's generally too difficult for even inexperienced people to tell the difference as long as they're prepared to put a bit of thought into working out what rings true and what doesn't.

4)  Did you have trouble "hearing" what Dommes said because you tried too hard to be the perfect sub...just like in all those stories?  Think of it as a problem with language processing; when she said one thing, did you use your past knowledge of BDSM porn to interpret what she was "really" saying?

Not really. As I recall, I was able to more or less set aside my preconceptions and approach submission with a fairly open mind. The formula seemed reasonably simple - find out what the dominant's expectations were, and try to fulfill them. I was fortunate in that the first dominant I had a serious relationship with was generally a very clear communicator, so she didn't leave a lot of room for misinterpretation in any case.
 
I will never have dangly parts.  I am not used to looking at porn and have not read BDSM porn stories...until now, because I want to understand more about what shaped a male submissive's thoughts.  Educate me.

Hmm... as I think a couple of others have already pointed out, enjoyment of BDSM porn is hardly restricted to those of us that have dangly parts. There really is a vast range out there - good, bad and ugly - and you'll probably find something that appeals to you if you go looking for it.
 
Thanks in advance to anyone who will try to help me with this.

Not sure how much I helped, but it's been my pleasure!

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: BDSM porn stories...I have some questions - 8/15/2010 1:46:46 PM   
kinkyhill


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline
I would agree with you Toppingfrmbottom, the wax is a fitting example, the first time I used wax on me I burned my thighs. There is a different aspect in here, if you are not in a BDSM environment how would you know there is something like a wax play or any other play, porn is one way you can learn different things in BDSM. You can't talk about BDSM to your family or friends so you need to get inspiration from somewhere to light your dark dreams and porn is one way.
The first thing one  needs to do before trying anything seen on BDSM porns is to make sure he/she does refer BDSM safety websites before trying them in real, especially don'ts mentioned with an action. Mostly it will give an idea of what you may expect and what first aid or action you need to do in case if something goes wrong.
The second thing one needs to know is how expereinced is the Dom/Domme who would be performing the action on the sub. If the Domme is experienced then its fine, if not the Dom/Domme should also be made aware of the safety precautions that needs to be taken care before performing the action, after this one could start trying the action in the slightest and slowest form for a safe and sensual play.
 
kinkyhill

< Message edited by kinkyhill -- 8/15/2010 1:47:50 PM >

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)
Profile   Post #: 20
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