RE: My kind of gun control

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splorff -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/29/2010 12:30:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: splorff This just underlines the point being made. Had the victims been armed, they would have had a chance to remain alive. Their wives may not have become widows, and their children may have had happy childhoods. And mine that if he were properly screened and gun controls were much tighter they may ALL still be alive. Two sides to everything. Butch I'd like to know if he had any previous. If he has a conviction for unprovoked violence of any sort I agree with you Butch. He should have had his licence revoked.

zenny -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/29/2010 4:59:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: splorff There is something I would like to know. I dont think its possible for Americans to buy assault rifles. Why is this ? I am guessing that they are potent weapons, but why so especially ? First, there is no such thing as an assault rifle. It is a term and classification made up to sensationalize. Since Clinton's 'Assault Weapon Ban' (AWB) expired then American's can buy weapons that meet the criteria. To illistrate how idiotic is was I point out that many features that would classify a weapon as an 'assault weapon' were safety features. Also, hunting rifles are more powerful and less finicky than most 'assault weapons'. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: interlocutor quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub HERE is the story... Butch I guess you could say she was "shot" but she was taken to the hospital with "minor injuries" The .22 cal bullet bounced off her leg. You make it sound as if this was an accidental death. But I wonder if you realize that you are arguing that is is better to have CRIME than ACCIDENTS; that is it better to let people intentionally prey on the weak than take a risk that some one might accidently get hurt. Nope I want someone like me with training in firearms, with a deadly weapon, then someone that is more likely to kill themselves and others than the criminal...Is that too much to ask? Butch Unfortunately you don't realize you ARE arguing it's better to have crime than accidents. How about this. Look into police records (because you won't find this in the news) about instances where a gun was used in self defense. Tally that for your area and then compare it to those 6 accidents. Guess which one will be higher. Also, you can't predict the future, you can only guard against it. That person you may think is a dumb ass in general and wouldn't trust with a popgun is probably more responsible than you with a firearm. Judge a book... etc. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub How about THIS...or THIS...or THIS... or THIS...or THIS...or THIS...or THIS...I could go on and on...how are these for isolated incidents to make a point. Butch There is an instance sexual assault in the US about every 2 minutes, iirc. While tragic I'm more concerned about minimizing bad things from happening. I'm not for legislature that will make people have to jump through more hoops, demonize guns more, and leave even those your claim are 'idiots' and 'undeserving' without protection. I'm not typically about 'the greater good' but were your view to happen more people would die and more lives be destroyed. Also, I am reading your posts closely. They are vague at best and don't properly describe the situations you attempt to illustrate. You are apparently reading my posts but not listening to what I'm saying.

zenny -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/29/2010 5:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: splorff quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: splorff This just underlines the point being made. Had the victims been armed, they would have had a chance to remain alive. Their wives may not have become widows, and their children may have had happy childhoods. And mine that if he were properly screened and gun controls were much tighter they may ALL still be alive. Two sides to everything. Butch I'd like to know if he had any previous. If he has a conviction for unprovoked violence of any sort I agree with you Butch. He should have had his licence revoked. There isn't a license needed for owning a gun in most states although many require a permit for concealed carry. If he had a felony he would not have been able to purchase a weapon via legitimate means. He still would have been able to get a weapon though. When you outlaw weapons you only make it harder to law abiding citizens to obtain them; whether for sport, hunting, defense, whatever. Guess what kdsub, there is no magical way to just 'screen' people. So you either restrict it which would demonize guns further, make it easier for future restrictions because of bad PR and further misguiding opinion, and allow criminals easier targets (which they will thank you for), or you arm more people and they protect themselves. Crime goes down substantially across the board and accidents go from 6 to 9. Guess which I would prefer. Guess which those countless saved wives and husbands - brothers and sister - aunts, uncles, and cousins prefer? Your idea to save people from 'accidents' would kill way more than it saves. How can you tout such hypocrisy?

Aynne88 -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/29/2010 5:36:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lisub4one Aynne, you definitely sound like my kind of firearms owner, and my apologies if my words carried any insult. I've been shooting competitively and hunting for over 35 years, and do appreciate the ongoing desire to make additions to the gun safe, even if they may be a bit superfluous given what is already in there. No room in the freezer at the moment for more venison. The T/C and I had a very good season last fall keeping the tradition of one shot one kill going. No insult at all lisub, thanks though. :) Love that the freezer is full and that you, like me, are a proponent of safety and of responsible gun ownership and safety and ethical hunting practices, that rocks. It also helps to hopefully get the idea across that guns do indeed serve several purposes, and people like us actually exist. I will never understand why people are so intolerant of responsible gun ownership and honestly I don't really care at this point.

splorff -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 10:27:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zenny There isn't a license needed for owning a gun in most states although many require a permit for concealed carry. So I could just go into a gun shop and but one simply because I am an adult ? quote: ORIGINAL: zenny When you outlaw weapons you only make it harder to law abiding citizens to obtain them; whether for sport, hunting, defense, whatever. I agree. When did criminals ever obey the law ? They will just get them illegally.

PeonForHer -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 1:38:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: splorff quote: ORIGINAL: zenny There isn't a license needed for owning a gun in most states although many require a permit for concealed carry. So I could just go into a gun shop and but one simply because I am an adult ? I thought your opinion on gun control was basically total freedom and 'fuck the state', Splorff. Has that changed as this thread has progressed? Or did I get the wrong impression when you said, earlier, quote: ORIGINAL: splorff It is shameful of politicians to attempt to proscribe gun ownership, for in doing so, they deny people their human right to defend themselves, and their families. Fuck the state.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:10:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: splorff quote: ORIGINAL: zenny There isn't a license needed for owning a gun in most states although many require a permit for concealed carry. So I could just go into a gun shop and but one simply because I am an adult ? Yes. Although depending on what state or city you live in, there will be various types of background checks and possibly waiting periods depending on the type of firearm you buy. For example, in my city, when i buy a pistol or an AR-15 from a dealer I need a permit from the local police department to purchase the gun - not to own, but simply to demonstrate that I'm legally allowed to purchase the gun. And, there's a waiting period of I believe 3 days. When i buy a rifle or a shotgun, all I need to do is stand around bullshitting with the clerks and playing with the used handguns for 10 minutes while they run a background check over the phone; then I walk out the door with my new gun. Different states and cities will have somewhat different laws.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:13:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus She reached inside, and the first shot was clear of the muzzle and into the torso of one of the attackers before she even pulled the weapon clear of the purse. Four more shots followed shortly and, in the end, one of the attackers was dead and the second was hospitalized facing a murder rap for having participated in a felony in which someone died." Outstanding. It was either them or her, and she made sure it was them. Good for her!

PeonForHer -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:16:13 PM)
FR, One day I'd like to visit the USA. However, I have no official proof that I've ever wanted to kill anyone. Will that count against me when I apply for my visa?

CreativeDominant -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:18:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt quote: You know that when these stories pop up on this kind of web site they are generally fabricated? Not always: http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=12810676 ~grins~...way to go, lovely...leave it to you to find it.

RedStapler -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:21:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: splorff KD I am in a forum where an American guy posted about a town in his state. The mayor ruled that every home owner had to own a gun. Those with criminal records or mental health issues were excluded. The results do not support your views. Burglaries went down significantly, if I recall correctly it was a decrease of perhaps 40% Other decreases followed, for as you know burglary is sometimes accompanied by rape, beating, torture and homicide. Kennesaw Georgia, by chance? Crime Plunges in Pro-gun Town Kennesaw, Ga., a northern suburb of Atlanta, passed an ordinance requiring heads of households "to maintain a firearm" and ammunition "to provide for the civil defense" and "protect the general welfare of the City and its inhabitants." ... Kennesaw's crime rate plummeted. In fact, the number of some crimes declined amid soaring population growth. For example, in figures the city provided to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, Kennesaw had 54 burglaries in 1981 – the year before the gun ordinance – with a population of 5,242. In 1999, with a population of 19,000, only 36 burglaries were reported. The rate of violent crime is approximately four times lower than the state and national rates, Kennesaw's Crime Statistics Report said. "Violent crime is almost nonexistent in residential neighborhoods," Graydon told UPI. The detective, who has been with the police department since 1986, said the isolated exceptions take place in motels or in commercial areas. Firm Sounds like my kind of place. Unfortunately, I live in the most PUSSIFIED NANNY STATE in the country (where citizens are presumed to be too dumb to pump our own gas, and the sheeple LIKE IT THAT WAY).

RedStapler -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:23:04 PM)
quote: FR, One day I'd like to visit the USA. However, I have no official proof that I've ever wanted to kill anyone. Will that count against me when I apply for my visa? There is a big difference between wanting to kill someone, and being willing to do it if it means protecting yourself or your family.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:28:52 PM)
They were threatening her life and getting ready to rape her. Why would anyone be the least bit disappointed that she killed one and wounded the other?

CreativeDominant -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:31:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: splorff KD I am in a forum where an American guy posted about a town in his state. The mayor ruled that every home owner had to own a gun. Those with criminal records or mental health issues were excluded. The results do not support your views. Burglaries went down significantly, if I recall correctly it was a decrease of perhaps 40% Other decreases followed, for as you know burglary is sometimes accompanied by rape, beating, torture and homicide. You miss my point...it is not that crime will not go down...but it is that accidental gun deaths and injuries go up when there are more guns available to people that are not experienced with them and their dangers. The problem is that many states don't require comprehensive gun safety courses when issuing permits...They let any dumb ass have one and the kids often get hurt...more often than they save someone from a crime. Butch Actually Butch...that is what the freedom to keep and bear arms is all about. While I agree that there needs to be a legal age to have one, until the day I see the government insisting on people being "screened" or "tested" or what-have-you to prove their viability as a "parent", then I think there is plenty of regulation around obtaining guns for law-abiding people. But the governement won't regulate and screen prospective parents...hell, if you've got viable sperm and can find a woman with viable eggs, then you too can have a child, never mind your ability or willingness to raise it without abusing it, killing it, warping it or using it.

Jeffff -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:32:21 PM)
In Illinois you need a Firearms Owner Identification card to buy a gun. The state runs your info and if you aren't nuts or a criminal they send you the card. There is then a three day "cooling off" period from the time you purchase it until you take delivery. There is no concealed carry allowed in IL

CreativeDominant -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:37:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Is THIS the same place? Wonderful job of reducing crime Butch Come on butch...you are really going to trot out one mentally off-balance individual...off-balance due to being fired from the place he shot up...as your evidence of how being allowed to have handguns INCREASES the crime rate??? you are right in ONE thing only...on that day, in that specific instance, at that specific place, the crime rate did indeed go up. Odd though, you can't accurately or reasonably counter FirmHand's argument of the OVERALL decrease, can you?

Jeffff -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:42:43 PM)
Gary Kleck from Florida State University has proved conclusively that private ownership of firearms and concealed carry decrease the occurrence of violent crime. When he started the study he was sure the reverse would be true. Instead of letting his preconceptions guide the study, he let the data speak. Of course many people don't want to believe it, so they won't

kdsub -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 2:48:39 PM)
Thanks for reading my posts... keep at it and you will see what i was trying to say...

CreativeDominant -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 3:09:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Thanks for reading my posts... keep at it and you will see what i was trying to say... I see what you are trying to say...let me see if I have it right: you are ALL for gun owners AS LONG AS it is heavily regulated by the government. What sort of regulations...other than a course in firearm safety, being of a specific age, and a non-felon...would you require? Or that you think the government should require?

PeonForHer -> RE: My kind of gun control (7/30/2010 3:14:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedStapler quote: FR, One day I'd like to visit the USA. However, I have no official proof that I've ever wanted to kill anyone. Will that count against me when I apply for my visa? There is a big difference between wanting to kill someone, and being willing to do it if it means protecting yourself or your family. Yes, I know. My father is a retired Metropolitan Police Chief Inspector. He was a qualified marksman when he was in the police service. He'd come up against armed gangland thugs as well as IRA terrorists, in his career. He's killed people and a few of his best friends have been killed, too. Generally, he's so right wing he'd make Hitler look like a limp-wristed liberal. Me, I'm a lot further left. However, one of the few things he and I agree on is that no-one in the UK, including the police, should be armed. I do appreciate that getting rid of guns in a society that's been so imbued with a gun culture for so long is quite different to preventing the spread of gun-ownership in a society that's used to people not having them. However, for the record, and as a non-American, I'd like politely to state a feeling that I think might be shared by a lot of non-Americans: that I find the majority of what's been said on this thread disgusting and repulsive. It gives me the shudders. I don't think the average American has the slightest idea of how horrifying the US gun culture is to those who don't have such a culture.

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