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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 3:29:50 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I do appreciate that getting rid of guns in a society that's been so imbued with a gun culture for so long is quite different to preventing the spread of gun-ownership in a society that's used to people not having them.  However, for the record, and as a non-American, I'd like politely to state a feeling that I think might be shared by a lot of non-Americans: that I find the majority of what's been said on this thread disgusting and repulsive.  It gives me the shudders.  I don't think the average American has the slightest idea of how horrifying the US gun culture is to those who don't have such a culture.


What's horrifying about it? They threatened to kill her, she shot them instead, I'm glad it turned out that way instead of the other way because this way the innocent woman is alive and unraped. Had she not shot them, she would have been raped and possibly murdered, and the only reason she is alive and unraped is because she killed one and wounded the other. Exactly what part of that is horrifying, disgusting, or repulsive?


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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 3:37:44 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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Status: offline 		~~just following Panda, haven't read the thread~~

I LOVE THAT WOMAN!! She is my shordurpursav. I don't have a carry permit, but if I did, yeah, I would have done the same damn thing. And after I emptied the magazine into those thugs, I would have pistol whipped them into the next world.

I had a little Republican moment there, sorry. But I mean every word.

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 4:30:39 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
What's horrifying about it? They threatened to kill her, she shot them instead, I'm glad it turned out that way instead of the other way because this way the innocent woman is alive and unraped. Had she not shot them, she would have been raped and possibly murdered, and the only reason she is alive and unraped is because she killed one and wounded the other. Exactly what part of that is horrifying, disgusting, or repulsive?


I'm far too distanced from the situation of this one woman for it to be of any real, visceral concern to me, Panda.  Don't ask me to view the situation of this or that individual in the USA  - that's not the context in which I view any discussion about guns.  Frankly, I don't care about it.  I shall see the context of the argument in the way that suits me.   That is, I see American society, as a whole.  I'm fully aware that the pro-gun lobby would demand that I premise any argument about guns on the individual - but I'm not going to do that.  I'm resolutely going to premise it on what's good for the society as a whole.  And as a whole, I see American society as one which loves its guns, and gets an unhealthy buzz out of killing. 

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 4:34:43 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		I am not sure that I would actually ENJOY killing someone, Peon, even if they were attacking my family or me. Every time I see a car crash, or read of some tragedy, I think of that person's family. But I have to admit that just HOLDING a gun excites me in a way that nothing else does. Over on Fet, that pic on my profile? Real assault rifles, just a FRACTION of a collection.

Happiness is a warm gun?

(ps--the only actual "firearm" I own is a BB handgun, for target practice. makes those boys JUMP let me tell you!)

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 4:41:28 PM   
ShaharThorne


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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 4:53:38 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am not sure that I would actually ENJOY killing someone, Peon, even if they were attacking my family or me. Every time I see a car crash, or read of some tragedy, I think of that person's family. But I have to admit that just HOLDING a gun excites me in a way that nothing else does. Over on Fet, that pic on my profile? Real assault rifles, just a FRACTION of a collection.

Happiness is a warm gun?

(ps--the only actual "firearm" I own is a BB handgun, for target practice. makes those boys JUMP let me tell you!)


Hon, it boils down to this, for me.  The days of the Cold War are gone.  Things have changed massively and we all need to catch up.  The USA is now the hegemon - the only superpower.  The rest of the world needs the USA to be very grown up and very balanced.  The American gun culture is un-grown-up.  It's childish, it's out of date, it's uncivilised and it's shit.  Please get rid of it.  Thank you in advance.

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 4:59:28 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't see it happening for a variety of reasons.

Among the biggest is the 2nd amendment is one of the 10 Bills of Rights.

If you start fucking with one, you can fuck with the rest. It is a slippery slope.





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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 5:07:27 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am not sure that I would actually ENJOY killing someone, Peon, even if they were attacking my family or me. Every time I see a car crash, or read of some tragedy, I think of that person's family. But I have to admit that just HOLDING a gun excites me in a way that nothing else does. Over on Fet, that pic on my profile? Real assault rifles, just a FRACTION of a collection.

Happiness is a warm gun?

(ps--the only actual "firearm" I own is a BB handgun, for target practice. makes those boys JUMP let me tell you!)


Hon, it boils down to this, for me.  The days of the Cold War are gone.  Things have changed massively and we all need to catch up.  The USA is now the hegemon - the only superpower.  The rest of the world needs the USA to be very grown up and very balanced.  The American gun culture is un-grown-up.  It's childish, it's out of date, it's uncivilised and it's shit.  Please get rid of it.  Thank you in advance.


I think the days of American hegemony are dying fast... and our gun culture is a holdover from frontier times, and is tied in to states rights---remember that Civil War we had about 150 yrs ago? Some folks think it was about slavery! hah!

I despise thug life, and how life has cheapened with the blossoming of drug culture. The Cold War has nothing to do with that. No one is packing heat to protect themselves from Communists, if they ever were. Getting rid of legal guns? Not going to happen. There are just too many people out there with illegal guns.

Our rights have been severely undermined since 9/11. There would be an uprising among even those who DON'T own guns if the government tried to interfere with what is really an original constitutional right. True, the reasoning behind that right is long gone, but we are hanging on with tooth and claw to what we have left.

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 5:16:17 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thanks for reading my posts... keep at it and you will see what i was trying to say...
I see what you are trying to say...let me see if I have it right:

you are ALL for gun owners AS LONG AS it is heavily regulated by the government.

What sort of regulations...other than a course in firearm safety, being of a specific age, and a non-felon...would you require?  Or that you think the government should require?


No... I am all for guns as long as the people using them know what they are doing... Zenny does not think it is worth a few hops to jump through to help reduce accidental gun deaths and injuries in children...I do...He thinks those 6 instances were the only ones in my area... they were not I was just tired of posting them... And in my area more kids are maimed then criminals shot by gun owners….a lot more.

Now tell me as a gun owner, which I am sure you are, would it kill you to take a course on gun safety and need to pass a competency test?

Butch

Ps... It would also be nice to take an operation test...after all it would be nice if the little old lady with the 9mm could hit the side of a barn rather than the childrens bedroom next door...

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/30/2010 5:41:39 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 5:39:05 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		I absolutely believe in gun safety courses. I even treat my toy gun as the real thing. I am vehement about keeping them away from children, and the guns and ammo are LOCKED in separate cabinets. (back when we had them). Still, what is the value of an unloaded gun?

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:02:48 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I'm far too distanced from the situation of this one woman for it to be of any real, visceral concern to me, Panda.  Don't ask me to view the situation of this or that individual in the USA  - that's not the context in which I view any discussion about guns.  Frankly, I don't care about it.  I shall see the context of the argument in the way that suits me.   That is, I see American society, as a whole.  I'm fully aware that the pro-gun lobby would demand that I premise any argument about guns on the individual - but I'm not going to do that.  I'm resolutely going to premise it on what's good for the society as a whole.  And as a whole, I see American society as one which loves its guns, and gets an unhealthy buzz out of killing. 


Fair enough. I understand your point somewhat better now; thanks for 'splaining.

I both agree and disagree with your argument. On the one hand, I'm no lover of American culture by any means. I've often said that this country would be an absolutely wonderful place to live if there weren't so goddamned many Americans living here. Somebody ought to send the fuckers back where they belong, so civilized people could feel at home here. Bunch of whiny, ignorant, self-absorbed, unbalanced morons, in my opinion.

As for American society loving its guns... well, I don't really disagree with that, either, but unlike you I don't necessarily see that as a problem. Or more to the point, not the problem.

The vast majority of people who love their guns love them in the same way that a motorhead loves his '68 Furbird, a fisherman loves his boat, and an audiophile loves his stereo. To us, guns are a hobby, and it's a perfectly safe, healthy hobby, because we very seldom use our guns to murder anyone. There's no difference at all between my guns and the audiophile's stereo and the fisherman's boat, except that the boat probably floats better and the stereo probably isn't quite as loud. There's nothing unhealthy at all about my love for my guns, and the same is true of every other gun owner I know.

The problem is not America's love affair with guns - it's America's love affair with violent, unstable behavior and completely irrational thinking. That's the problem. Now you could argue that as long as all these crazy, unbalanced fuckers have access to all those guns, it amounts to the same thing, and that's a discussion we could certainly have. You may see that as a distinction without a difference, but if we're going to have an effective discussion about America's gun problem, I think it's important to be accurate when we're defining the true nature of the problem.

It goes much deeper than the love of the guns, and if you point to the guns as an example of what's wrong with America, you're missing your target by a mile. And if you try to make your point in a thread about a woman who legitimately - and very bravely - saved her own life by exercising her right to defend herself with a legally-owned firearm, then I think your whole argument loses its relevance.




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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:07:49 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		Excellent post!

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:08:37 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I love Panda. I love Peon too. This is why Poly Is Good.

(yes, I still get wet around guns.)

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:19:29 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
I despise thug life, and how life has cheapened with the blossoming of drug culture. The Cold War has nothing to do with that. No one is packing heat to protect themselves from Communists, if they ever were. Getting rid of legal guns? Not going to happen. There are just too many people out there with illegal guns.

Our rights have been severely undermined since 9/11. There would be an uprising among even those who DON'T own guns if the government tried to interfere with what is really an original constitutional right. True, the reasoning behind that right is long gone, but we are hanging on with tooth and claw to what we have left.
 

The only thing I would disagree with is that the reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment is obsolete. I happen to believe that the Founders' original philosophy - that the best government is a government that's at least a little bit afraid of the people it governs - is as relevant today as it ever was. I don't think it was an accident that the right to own guns was the second thing they listed when they drew up the Bill of Rights. I think there's a great deal of significance to that - they knew exactly what they were doing.

But aside from that, I completely agree with you. As usual. The 2nd Amendment is never going anywhere, at least not in my lifetime. Poll after poll makes it clear that a huge majority of American citizens support the right to private ownership of firearms. For better or worse, we're stuck with them, and I'm perfectly content with that. On balance, I think we're much better off with them than we would be without them. If I recall correctly, we have about 30,000 firearms-related deaths a year in America, and while that's a lot, I still say it's a price I find acceptable. A horrible, mind-numbing, heartbreaking price for the families of innocent people who are killed by firearms, yes. But the cold reality is, I'm OK with it. I think it's a fair bargain.


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What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:21:51 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

And as a whole, I see American society as one which loves its guns, and gets an unhealthy buzz out of killing.

I think that says more about you than it does American society.

~stef


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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:23:30 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I'm okay with it, too. When I hear about folks living near the Mexican border having drug traffickers running through their yards, I am even more okay with it.

In these times, when most of us are at best deeply suspicious of our government, when shoddily-trained people with guns are paid to limit our rights to free and unobstructed travel, when I need a passport to enter our friendliest neighbor country, yes, I am very glad that we have the right to legal firearms.

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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:25:08 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Excellent post!


Thank you, sir. It's appreciated, as always!



quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I love Panda. I love Peon too. This is why Poly Is Good.

(yes, I still get wet around guns.)


I know! I'll post some pictures of my tricked-out 7.62 DPMS AR-15, with the scope sight, tripod mount, and 20-round magazines, and my Dan Wesson .357 with the thick, ribbed, shiny-black 6" barrel, on my Fetlife profile. Then I'll have you perving me every day! Woo-hoo!



< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 7/30/2010 7:29:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:26:27 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:28:15 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I absolutely believe in gun safety courses. I even treat my toy gun as the real thing. I am vehement about keeping them away from children, and the guns and ammo are LOCKED in separate cabinets. (back when we had them). Still, what is the value of an unloaded gun?


Hmm. Well, it depends. My AR-15, with all the add-ons.... probably around $1400. The Colt .45, with the black parkerized finish, I wouldn't part with for less than $750. My grandfather's Belgian double-barreled shotgun, made in 1880 and that he brought over when he emigrated from Germany... well, it just really varies from gun to gun, you see. There's no universal answer.


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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: My kind of gun control - 7/30/2010 7:30:11 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I absolutely believe in gun safety courses. I even treat my toy gun as the real thing. I am vehement about keeping them away from children, and the guns and ammo are LOCKED in separate cabinets. (back when we had them). Still, what is the value of an unloaded gun?


Hmm. Well, it depends. My AR-15, with all the add-ons.... probably around $1400. The Colt .45, with the black parkerized finish, I wouldn't part with for less than $750. My grandfather's Belgian double-barreled shotgun, made in 1880 and that he brought over when he emigrated from Germany... well, it just really varies from gun to gun, you see. There's no universal answer.




We have so hijacked this thread. Which I have only read the first post of anyway.



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