RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs back to the US?

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RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 11:44:12 AM

toxic66

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes.

Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes?

You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you.

(in reply to DCWoody)

Post #: 21

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 11:49:28 AM

Slavehandsome

Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline

How about deploying the military to occupy corporate headquarters until they brought the jobs back?

(in reply to toxic66)

Post #: 22

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 12:27:55 PM

lobodomslavery

Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline

How about bringing in a wealth tax for those who can afford it
A suggestion
$150,000-$300,000- 15% wealth tax
$400,000-$800,000-20% wealth tax
$850,000-$1,000,0000- 30% wealth tax
$1,500,000-$3,000,000- 45% wealth tax
$4,000,000+ - 50% wealth tax
kevin

(in reply to Slavehandsome)

Post #: 23

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 3:24:42 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

Actually, taxing companies that have outsourced jobs sounds pretty good to me, but then I am a liberal democrat who happens to believe in owning firearms

_____________________________

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(in reply to Slavehandsome)

Post #: 24

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 4:22:48 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toxic66

quote:

That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes.

Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes?

You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you.

Toxic, true, a better way would be to exclude all the companies who outsourced from the U.S. from our markets.
If they want to make it in China fine, sell it in China not here in the U.S.
Having access to the U.S. market is not a "right." Fuck those traitors!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to toxic66)

Post #: 25

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 5:11:33 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toxic66

quote:

That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes.

Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes?

You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you.

Not at all. Costs are not fixed, margins are not fixed, none of it is. If taxes are raised then the corporation has to decide to what degree they can recover costs by passing them along. It does change the final pricing but it is NOT a simple add-on equivalent to the entire cost of the additional tax.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to toxic66)

Post #: 26

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 5:55:22 PM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Actually, taxing companies that have outsourced jobs sounds pretty good to me, but then I am a liberal democrat who happens to believe in owning firearms

I feel the concept is flawed. It will fail. Consider when the automobile was invented. Horse drawn carriages were the standard mode of transport. Blacksmiths had a thriving business in horses shoes. When the automobile became ubiquitous all the horses were retired except for a few specialized cases. Do ya think placing a horseshoe tax on the automobile would have kept the smithy in business? Not at all. That business was doomed.

Automobiles killed the blacksmith business and video killed the radio star. Globalization has had a deleterious effect on manufacturing in the US.

What did the blacksmith do to survive and thrive? He learned a new craft. The US is transforming from a mfg-ing economy to a service and technological economy. Young people in their 20s and 30s are going to night school to learn new skills suited for the new economy. There is a push and pull in the jobs market. People will seek out and/or create jobs that have value in our economy and leave the manufacture of cheap goods to outsourcing. Do ya think website designing is an ancient skill?

I would say the same thing for low paying manual work that is "outsourced" within our own borders to illegal immigrants. People who have been displaced from those low wage jobs have gone on to develop new employment skills. Or, they had better. Unfortunately, some are too old or ill or otherwise unable to take the initiative. I don't have much faith in retraining programs but I suppose they are partly a solution. So yeh, many suffer. Sad to say that has always been a force in Capitalism that we have not been too quick to acknowledge. Technology and circumstances change the job market. Labor is no longer secure. Maybe never was. We have to face the fact that some jobs will never come back because they are of a different era.

I doubt either a tax or a tariff on goods will be effective or in the long run will be needed. We need to adopt our education system to the changing times.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/28/2010 6:00:20 PM >

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 27

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 6:01:34 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

FR:

Considering that those evil, greedy corporations are backed by evil, greedy people...

If the cost of doing business increases to the point of financial loss, don't think that all those evil, greedy people won't simply take their balls and go home. No one is holding a gun to the heads to anyone to keep corporations going.

Do you think those evil, greedy corporate people don't already have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives? Of course, they may have to "tighten the belt" some... stopping all philanthropic endeavors would help them make the money last much longer. No need to make big contributions to political campaigns, either, since their corporate interests would be no more. Big tax savings would follow since they wouldn't have to worry about "new" income to be taxed, interest tax can be avoided if they pull their money from interest bearing instruments, and they can always liquidate their investment portfolios... Best not to risk losing any money, anyway.

Of course, everyone employed by those corporations will no longer have anywhere to work. Suppliers will lose their business, too... as well as any other business that relies on providing support to big corporations. That's everything from office supplies to accounting services to shipping companies. But that's no skin off the noses of the evil, greedy corporate people. They're off enjoying life in some country with a cost of living that is a fraction of the US where their money lets them live like kings.

There might be some shortages of manufactured goods available to the "common people", but those shortages can always be made up by imports... provided the mom and pop businesses who'll be trying to meet the needs of everyone have the wherewithall and resources to manage foreign imports. Of course, that's assuming the government will be able to continue to provide unemployment income for all those displaced corporate workers so that they can afford to buy anything at all.

The Government is going to have to tighten its belt a bit, too. There's all that tax revenue they won't be getting now because the evil, greedy corporate people packed up their money and moved to Puerto Rico and Argentina.

I'm sure there'll be small companies who will try to step in to fill the big boys shoes... providing they can find someone to supply the financial investment needed for their growth. With all that money moved from US accounts, the banks might have a hard time, too.

It's not a pretty picture, but don't think it isn't possible. Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 28

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 6:08:01 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina.

That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think.

Only half a mil, wasn't it?

You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops?

It would be a big pay raise for most of em.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 29

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 6:12:18 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina.

That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think.

Only half a mil, wasn't it?

You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops?

It would be a big pay raise for most of em.

Firm

Sounds nice, I don't suppose you'll need a boi down there to help out?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 30

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 6:13:07 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina.

That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think.

Only half a mil, wasn't it?

You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops?

It would be a big pay raise for most of em.

Firm

My favorite part was the private waterfall.

From what I've found out so far, we could easily employ a cadre of workers to tend the house and acreage... and we'd be improving their standard of living tremendously!

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 31

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 6:15:29 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina.

That was a nice mountain-top you showed me. You could see the beach from the front veranda, I think.

Only half a mil, wasn't it?

You suppose we can pay the help a couple of dollars a day to scrub the floors and tend the crops?

It would be a big pay raise for most of em.

Firm

Sounds nice, I don't suppose you'll need a boi down there to help out?

Hmmm... depends. Can you cook?

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 32

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 6:53:13 PM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

FR:

Considering that those evil, greedy corporations are backed by evil, greedy people...

If the cost of doing business increases to the point of financial loss, don't think that all those evil, greedy people won't simply take their balls and go home. No one is holding a gun to the heads to anyone to keep corporations going.

Do you think those evil, greedy corporate people don't already have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives? Of course, they may have to "tighten the belt" some... stopping all philanthropic endeavors would help them make the money last much longer. No need to make big contributions to political campaigns, either, since their corporate interests would be no more. Big tax savings would follow since they wouldn't have to worry about "new" income to be taxed, interest tax can be avoided if they pull their money from interest bearing instruments, and they can always liquidate their investment portfolios... Best not to risk losing any money, anyway.

Of course, everyone employed by those corporations will no longer have anywhere to work. Suppliers will lose their business, too... as well as any other business that relies on providing support to big corporations. That's everything from office supplies to accounting services to shipping companies. But that's no skin off the noses of the evil, greedy corporate people. They're off enjoying life in some country with a cost of living that is a fraction of the US where their money lets them live like kings.

There might be some shortages of manufactured goods available to the "common people", but those shortages can always be made up by imports... provided the mom and pop businesses who'll be trying to meet the needs of everyone have the wherewithall and resources to manage foreign imports. Of course, that's assuming the government will be able to continue to provide unemployment income for all those displaced corporate workers so that they can afford to buy anything at all.

The Government is going to have to tighten its belt a bit, too. There's all that tax revenue they won't be getting now because the evil, greedy corporate people packed up their money and moved to Puerto Rico and Argentina.

I'm sure there'll be small companies who will try to step in to fill the big boys shoes... providing they can find someone to supply the financial investment needed for their growth. With all that money moved from US accounts, the banks might have a hard time, too.

It's not a pretty picture, but don't think it isn't possible. Personally, in mine and Firm's discussions, I'm pushing for Argentina.

Actually that is pretty simply sorted. If Daddywarbucks closes a plant or a whole business then we will slap him with a closure tax whereby the Gov't will be compensated for the amount of money that it will have to pay out in Unemployment claims, retraining, etc.....Next we limit capital flows outside of the US so that big daddy cannot move his money easily out of the US in sort of a Chinese fashion.

We will use this tax money to help one of the Mom and Pops buy begin moving into the plants and re-employing the people. Since it will be a favored industry we will give him favorable import tariffs against competition.

He won't be missed....

That way the former daddy warbucks can cash his chips in and go sip lemonade for the rest of his life and the country that gave him the ability to make such vast amounts of money will keep moving along without him.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 33

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 7:00:15 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

Corporations used to pay the majority of the budget. When their taxes were cut, it got levied on individuals. Now people complain about high taxes, even though the rate for the highest bracket about 2/3 of what it used to be, IIRC.

quote:

ORIGINAL: toxic66

quote:

That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes.

Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes?

You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you.

(in reply to toxic66)

Post #: 34

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 7:12:26 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Actually that is pretty simply sorted. If Daddywarbucks closes a plant or a whole business then we will slap him with a closure tax whereby the Gov't will be compensated for the amount of money that it will have to pay out in Unemployment claims, retraining, etc.....Next we limit capital flows outside of the US so that big daddy cannot move his money easily out of the US in sort of a Chinese fashion.

We will use this tax money to help one of the Mom and Pops buy begin moving into the plants and re-employing the people. Since it will be a favored industry we will give him favorable import tariffs against competition.

He won't be missed....

That way the former daddy warbucks can cash his chips in and go sip lemonade for the rest of his life and the country that gave him the ability to make such vast amounts of money will keep moving along without him.

You mean that the private property of the owners of the means of production will be nationalized, and then redistributed and run according to politically correct purposes?

Been done. Several times. Never works out.

But good luck with that.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 35

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 7:17:11 PM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

Not at all. We will invest with the new owners so that production can move forward. Say Limbaugh decided to cash in his chips. I sure we could a suitable loudmouthed idiot to fill the slots and keep Clear Channel afloat.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 36

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 7:40:09 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You mean the GE that had no US profits?

And why was that possible Willbeur when they had an overall profit of $10.8 billion?

You think it might have had something to do with tax shelters and outsourcing?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 37

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 7:48:04 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toxic66

You should want corporations to pay no taxes. All corporate taxes do is make the corporations the tax collector for the government. Corporations don't pay taxes, consumers do. To a corporation taxes are expenses, expenses are passed on to the consumers in the form of higher prices. So everytime you let a politician use your envy to "get" the corporation, just remember the only one being had is you.

What utter and complete bullshit!!!!!!

Are you really naive enough to believe that if we eliminate corporate taxes the corporations will smile down on us benevolently and prices will drop, wages will increase, and we can walk hand-in-hand down the yellow brick road?

(in reply to toxic66)

Post #: 38

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 8:06:14 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

I feel the concept is flawed. It will fail. Consider when the automobile was invented. Horse drawn carriages were the standard mode of transport. Blacksmiths had a thriving business in horses shoes. When the automobile became ubiquitous all the horses were retired except for a few specialized cases. Do ya think placing a horseshoe tax on the automobile would have kept the smithy in business? Not at all. That business was doomed.

Automobiles killed the blacksmith business and video killed the radio star. Globalization has had a deleterious effect on manufacturing in the US.

What did the blacksmith do to survive and thrive? He learned a new craft. The US is transforming from a mfg-ing economy to a service and technological economy. Young people in their 20s and 30s are going to night school to learn new skills suited for the new economy. There is a push and pull in the jobs market. People will seek out and/or create jobs that have value in our economy and leave the manufacture of cheap goods to outsourcing. Do ya think website designing is an ancient skill?

I would say the same thing for low paying manual work that is "outsourced" within our own borders to illegal immigrants. People who have been displaced from those low wage jobs have gone on to develop new employment skills. Or, they had better. Unfortunately, some are too old or ill or otherwise unable to take the initiative. I don't have much faith in retraining programs but I suppose they are partly a solution. So yeh, many suffer. Sad to say that has always been a force in Capitalism that we have not been too quick to acknowledge. Technology and circumstances change the job market. Labor is no longer secure. Maybe never was. We have to face the fact that some jobs will never come back because they are of a different era.

I doubt either a tax or a tariff on goods will be effective or in the long run will be needed. We need to adopt our education system to the changing times.

Yes this was exactly what was said to promote NAFTA.

We are transforming to a service and technological economy.

The only problem is those service and technology jobs are being outsourced.

When was the last time you called any technical support service for your computer, Ipod, Blackberry, whatever, that you actually talked to a person in this country?

Yes, we are becoming a service economy but the only things we'll be serving are Whoppers and Big Macs.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 39

RE: Would you agree to tax incentives to bring jobs bac... - 7/28/2010 8:21:35 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The corporate tax rate on the Federal level is 15 to 35% dependent on total revenues.

That's the rate based on a literal interpretation of the the tax code, the reality is most corporations pay far less because of numerous loopholes.

Remember the recent story about GE paying absolutely no taxes?

Wanna get that story?

GE, Exxon Paid No U.S. Income Taxes in 2009 - ABC News

The most egregious example is General Electric. Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.

Avoiding taxes is nothing new for General Electric. In 2008 its effective tax rate was 5.3%; in 2007 it was 15%. The marginal U.S. corporate rate is 35%.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Post #: 40

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