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Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/27/2010 9:46:23 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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If you have been to LA and went to a Kinky Club chances are Passive Arts is one of them

The Owner and Dog Found Dead in structure fire.

Link to Most Recent Article I could find.

Pay your Respects if you knew or knew of the man.

QSM

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/27/2010 9:49:33 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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If you wanna be pissed at some asshole read this link.

CLICK HERE

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/28/2010 6:57:28 AM   
sub4hire


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It wasn't the owner it was a recently fired employee

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/28/2010 6:59:14 AM   
sub4hire


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Hmm, your websites claim it was.  KTLA.com says it wasn't the owner

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/28/2010 8:12:50 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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The Owner is who is Dead.

David Albert is the one who was Arrested in connection with the Death.

The Death and Fire are being considered Questionable and right now former employee David Albert has been arrested in connection with Arson and Murder.

Posted to help anyone else who had any trouble reading the Articles.

If you have been to Passive Arts John was the one who Owned the Wolf that was there a lot.

This is a SAD and Serious Loss. I am surprised there has not been more comments on this thread.

QSM

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/28/2010 8:25:57 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Hmm, your websites claim it was.  KTLA.com says it wasn't the owner


From the KTLA story: " The victim's name is being withheld until his family is notified but it's believed he was the owner of the club. "

LA Times

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/28/2010 1:33:28 PM   
YesMistressIrish


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Shocking and terrible!

Wondering why David was fired and what his job was at the club. If he did start the fire and cause the murder...Grrr.......

I knew John and he was always very kind to me. His dog was gorgeous and always nearby.

I'd be amazed if this wasn't John that was dead.

Thanks for posting quietman. I heard this news yesterday afternoon from a friend and went into shock.

ok-- I am calling a moratorium on bad crap happening to people--just for 1 week~~nothing bad can happen.

(wish this were possible)

Irish

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/28/2010 2:07:42 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YesMistressIrish

Shocking and terrible!

Wondering why David was fired and what his job was at the club. If he did start the fire and cause the murder...Grrr.......

I knew John and he was always very kind to me. His dog was gorgeous and always nearby.

I'd be amazed if this wasn't John that was dead.

Thanks for posting quietman. I heard this news yesterday afternoon from a friend and went into shock.

ok-- I am calling a moratorium on bad crap happening to people--just for 1 week~~nothing bad can happen.

(wish this were possible)

Irish



Irish I share your sorrow.

There are so many questions. This is what I know. It most likely is John. They confirmed, then retracted that the Body was that of the Owner (John) the Coroner has yet to identify the body and I am assuming not making any statement until the family has been consulted with.

The Dog could only be one dog in that establishment and that would be Johns. If the Dog and the Body were found it is only one possible answer. John cannot be reached and from what I understand he was supposed to be in the building.

What we don't know is if the fire killed him or if he was killed and set on fire. Again that will not be known until the Coroner's findings are released. One Guresome report stated that the body was so badly burned it was not known if the gender was male or female.

I must admit that I am not closely involved with John, his Family, or those who knew him best, I think I met him once, but by those who speak highly of him I know he was a good man who loved life and enjoyed giving those of us who need a place to do what it is that we do a place to do it, and do it safely.

He was a Good man, that is for sure.

What I find sad is the little interest it has garnered here. I would think this thread would be flooded with concern. He was one of our own....

A Lifestyle and Bondage Friendly Establishment has been destroyed.
The Owner Possibly Murdered
His Animal Companion an additional Casuality
Friends mourn the loss of a respected man in the community.

And yet it seems to have passed unnoticed here among these threads.

It is Sad.

QSM

_____________________________

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/28/2010 10:12:06 PM   
TheHeretic


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It's an awful thing, QSM. Perhaps it is still too fresh, and too close to home for some? Or maybe they prefer to stay quiet around an ongoing murder investigation that could blow up for the community as a sensationalist circus?

A friend always said good things about the place, and kept trying to get us to visit the club, but it never happened.



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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 7:37:28 AM   
LadyPact


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AQSM, it didn't pass unnoticed.  As Rich said, it's something of a shock when something so tragic happens.  There probably would have been more comments on it if the forum readership was still what it once was.  Especially from those who are in that very area.

I didn't get to meet John.  I'm very sorry that I missed the opportunity.


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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 8:29:46 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

AQSM, it didn't pass unnoticed.  As Rich said, it's something of a shock when something so tragic happens.  There probably would have been more comments on it if the forum readership was still what it once was.  Especially from those who are in that very area.

I didn't get to meet John.  I'm very sorry that I missed the opportunity.



Well forgive me I just saw an Overwhelming difference between this and other forums on comments and connections regarding this tragedy.

Perhaps I am slightly too emotional on this subject. It just upset me that we lose one of our own in such a Violent way and only 6 people of the Thousands on this site felt the need to comment.

Perhaps I am desiring too much.

QSM

_____________________________

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"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 8:32:00 AM   
GreedyTop


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It is sad to lose a venue and an obviously dedicated personage in such an awful way. 



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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 9:13:54 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan
Well forgive me I just saw an Overwhelming difference between this and other forums on comments and connections regarding this tragedy.

Perhaps I am slightly too emotional on this subject. It just upset me that we lose one of our own in such a Violent way and only 6 people of the Thousands on this site felt the need to comment.

Perhaps I am desiring too much.

QSM

Well of course you're emotional, Hon!  Stuff like this is always hard, especially when it's somewhere that you've been or someone that you've met.  Unless I'm mistaken, this man and his establishment were some of the comments made the last time I was sitting around the pool (where you were sorely missed) about a month ago.

It is hard when we lose one of our own.  Especially someone who is connected to the community in such a way that they are opening doors to play spaces or the person making our toys.  The people who put on the demos or promote the events.  This is even harder because this is no natural cause.  It might very well be that 'one of our own' is the reason that we have this tragedy.  That's pretty hard to swallow.  It makes it hurt just a little bit more.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 9:39:47 AM   
oSweetness


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This is sad, and my thoughts and prayers go out to his family and loved ones...



I understand where you are coming from QSM.
There are many factors at work here.. as to why there are not many posts.
Lots of people come here to escape real life.
Lots of people don't aknoweledge this lifestyle when away from the computer..

Sometimes it is easier not to aknowledege difficult, painfull things.





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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 12:24:14 PM   
BeachMystress


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AQSM, I'd be surprised if you went to Passive Arts. M&b gave up on the venue quite some time ago.

Other websites, where the So Cal community gathers to share, have commented up a storm and our local dungeons are doing remembrances for both John and others we have tragically lost recently.

It is a very odd feeling to know someone who has been brutally murdered. The last time I saw John, I expressed my displeasure over his at-then-new policy of no full nudity (nipples and all lower holes covered) so he could sell alcohol. Not only is CBT harder to do through underwear, the drunken vanilla spectators stumbled into the middle of scenes, were disrespectful and rude. They touched people and toys without asking, playing with and even going so far as pocketing them!
A woman I caught trying to steal one of my zippers said she just wanted a souvenir; something to show her friends. She was miffed when I didn't understand and insisted upon the return.

One of our last evenings there a group of 12 intoxicated semi-nilla settled directly beside our station and proceeded to shriek, laugh the loud braying laughter of the drunk and talk in loud voices. The first time I politely explained the problem to them, asked them to respect the customs of most dungeons and answered their questions on several of the things I was doing to my husband. The second time I had to speak to them (less than ten mins later) it was more of a "come on folks, there is a socializing space down the hall. If you have to be loud, please go there."  The third time, which occurred immediately before a harsh strike of my four foot metal core bamboo cane, jerked my husband out of his subspace and he took the full pain of the blow without the headspace-cushion. I could tell from the way he stiffened and started shuddering that it had been very bad for him. That did it. I blew up at them and chased them out physically. We then packed up and left, my subhubby traumatized and in shock and me so angry it was hard to keep my hands from shaking. (We were 15 mins from home and I felt aftercare would be more nurturing in our own bed.) We told John about the situation early on as it was developing and asked for help. I asked that he have someone official tell them to be quiet or go to the social area/dance floor. He said no. John wasn't interested in making any of the semi-nilla's or lookie loos unhappy since they, not the people actually playing, were the ones buying the drinks. And the alcohol consumption was the main source of weekend income.

We went to Passive Arts once after that. It was also an unpleasant experience and before leaving I expressed my displeasure to John, letting him know we'd no longer be patronizing his establishment. That while I understood he needed to make money I felt the practice of mixing inexperienced people, BDSM and alcohol was a creating an environment non-conducive to play.

Please keep in mind that Passive Arts is.. or was :-( .. a Pro Dungeon which hosted open-to-all parties with a full bar on weekend nights. John was not doing them as a community service, but for the profit. And unlike the other local dungeon owners he was not an overly active part of the community. The other Dungeons host fund raisers, charity events, munches and educational classes. They promote community unity and safety. When one local munch group approached John about having an hour long rope munch once a month at Passive Arts, he told them they could rent the space at full dungeon price. I -and many others- felt BDSM was just about money to John.

He was a businessman. Yes his death is awful. It makes me sick to my stomach that someone I know.. knew.. was murdered. I've never heard anything about John that would make him deserve such a brutal and evil end. I am saddened and sickened. But it does not strike me to the core BDSM-wise as it would if something happened to Kane at the Lair, Lady Badger, Caryl, Cyan or other of our social activists.


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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 1:06:18 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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Beach,

I don't want to argue the responsibilities of a Kink CLub Owner, and ettiquite in a public club.

I will say this. You do not maintain a 7000sqft club and keep it running by giving it away.

Also people start businesses to make money, I would not get mad with someone charging me to use their facility, I would also expect to pay what anyone else would I do not think that I am special.

That being said I admit I did not know the club or the man as well as many others did, what I do know is that like you I never once met a person who spoke so poorly of him that he deserved what was done to him.

Here is the Latest Article by the way

I can say no bruised butt, no loss of subspace, no lest focus is worth being shot in the head several times, and then having your lifeless body set on fire.

This community has lost many people, this is a gruesom as any other, it bothers me heavily that you would take his death and a thread about his death to complain about what rules he chose to maintain in his club.

I have always believed that if you wanna do whatever you wanna do.... do it in your own bedroom, otherwise you do what the person with the authority to tell you what is allowed tells you is okay to do.

Business is Business, this thread is about the murder and loss of someone who meant something to some of the people who live this lifestyle. I am sorry that you felt poorly of him, I have met you more times than I ever met him. He was a good enough man that he deserves to be remembered if as nothing more, than as a man who accected our lifestyle and gave us a place to do what it is that we do.

QSM

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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 1:35:24 PM   
Lockit


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I only knew John through CM and am very saddened by what has happened. We got pretty close and I liked him very much. I knew the man, not the business part.

Damn... okay, more like FUCK! I can't even look at his pictures right now and doubt I can read much more than I have.

Just, sad, sad, sad and mad!


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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 2:35:20 PM   
BeachMystress


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Michael, perhaps you ought to read my post more thoroughly. Exactly where did I say John deserved to be murdered? Gee, I do believe I said specifically that I'd never heard anything about him bad enough to justify what was done. Reading comprehension is a beautiful thing... And no, you didn't know John. You aren't part of the So Cal scene. You visit it at times. Perhaps you don't know as much about what you're saying as you think you do. You couldn't even remember if you'd BEEN to Passive Arts. You just want to be outraged. A theme with you..

And the thread is about whatever people post on it. You do not own it. Too bad you didn't like what I had to say but I had the right to say it. Freedom of speech is such a wonderful thing.



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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 3:00:58 PM   
Lockit


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QSM,

So why sully his thread with disappointment that not so many would be responding? I knew before today... I just couldn't look or read. I didn't want to believe it. People deal with things differently. We say we aren't a community and then we call someone 'our own' as if that has some special meaning. I don't get it.

The John I knew had a very private side to him, was lonely and sought deeper relationships. He was a man... not a cause.


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RE: Passive Arts Fire.... Owner Killed. - 7/29/2010 3:25:53 PM   
thornhappy


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Some live 2500 miles or more away, and don't know the LA scene or the owner's place in it...
quote:

ORIGINAL: oSweetness

This is sad, and my thoughts and prayers go out to his family and loved ones...



I understand where you are coming from QSM.
There are many factors at work here.. as to why there are not many posts.
Lots of people come here to escape real life.
Lots of people don't aknoweledge this lifestyle when away from the computer..

Sometimes it is easier not to aknowledege difficult, painfull things.






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Profile   Post #: 20
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