RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable...

RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (Full Version)

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hlen5 -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 11:51:47 AM)
Regarding entitlements, I doubt they will be provided.

xBullx -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:03:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You missed my point, healthcare is bankrupting our people No Julie, I didn't.... In fact you're missing the point. What's the difference if you go broke personally or we go broke as a collective. Obamacare did not fix what was ailing our country's health care problems, in fact it seems to be adding to the problem. quote: More do-able then what we are currently doing, which is spending more than anyone and getting less than most... talk about an idiotic system No its not do-able, our health care woes extend beyond the damn payer system. Real health reform will hurt all the big monies involved not just the ones that donate most to the ruling parties opposition. quote: Yes, it does, but that does not mitigate that our people already have the lowest life expectancy of any Western nation, the problem promises to get worse as people do not have affordable care for the problems that being inactive and overweight are sure to cause. I am talking solutions here, not the cause of problems which are well known. These obese young people are going to need medical care to help them lose all this weight. They will need preventative care... our medical system isn't equipped to deal with it. If you think your future isn't tied to to theirs, you are sorely mistaken So my paying for you and your kids health care will get their butts off the couch? And you have said anything about solutions, all you've addressed is who should be paying. How much preventive care will it take to get young kids off the couch and away from the feed bunk? It appears the more I let you have a say in the process the more tied I become to all these unhealthy children, I got to pay for all their health care. Heck I thought I already was with the title 19 program and all. ................... Wait, you knew that.... You want me to pay for you too, don't you? I get it now... Ok I'll bite........Since I and other working men like me, that pay for our own care, will be supporting you all, do you have to now call me "Daddy", cause if you do I prefer Master, Daddy seems so..........pedophlipant(new word, Bull cioned a word [:D]) Now I'm teasin' some here with ya Julie, but really cost and how to pay it and from where it's payed aren't even the first problems to deal with the way I see it.

hlen5 -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:12:29 PM)
Bull, Do you usually read the CBO newsletter? How depressing and nearly overwhelming!!

juliaoceania -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:17:54 PM)
You have been completely insulting and nasty in this reply. I won't respond to it because in your world, which if I am to understand you live on "gor", you don't deal with government policy anyways... You also do not have to treat other people with respect, and dignity, and it is okay to lessen people and refer to them by shortening their nics in an obvious gambit to dominate them inappropriately. It is also okay to engage in personal attacks on gor, because you do not have anything of import to contribute to a civil discussion.. You have completely denigrated yourself in the above reply, congrats!

hsimlexx -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:25:37 PM)
Bull, your knowledge of the economics of healthcare are a little off. Private Insurers eat up more than 20% of premium dollars in admin costs, analysts who do denial of payment costs, advertising costs, and profits. Medicare uses around 3% of the "premium" dollar. Total dollars spent in this country would drop dramatically and still cover all if we had 100% coverage utilizing the same model as Medicare. Is it perfect, hardly. But don't claim that single payer wouldn't change anything. That is total nonsense.

thishereboi -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:26:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I am going to be completely insulting and nasty in this reply. I won't respond to it because in your world, which if I am to understand you live on "gor", you don't deal with government policy anyways... You also do not have to treat other people with respect, and dignity, and it is okay to lessen people and refer to them by shortening their nics in an obvious gambit to dominate them inappropriately. It is also okay to engage in personal attacks on gor, because you do not have anything of import to contribute to a civil discussion.. You have completely denigrated yourself in the above reply, congrats! There, that's better.

juliaoceania -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:30:11 PM)
So you think pointing out the type of dominant I like it an appropriate debating tactic? shrugs we all have opinions.... Edited to add, calling them pedophiles... Hmmmm, last I looked I am a 42 year old curvy and completely adult submissive female... There is nothing prepubescent about me

ElizabethAnne -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:41:06 PM)
What's Gor got to do with health care? I get amused when a person who follows Gorean ethos can't be shot down any other way, someone invariably tosses out...oh well you live on Gor. I happen to know Bull does NOT live on Gor, but right here in the US. Really, try to be more creative, and keep to the subject matter, and not the proverbial Gorean red herring, besides I don't think they are in season. :)

xBullx -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:49:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk What would actually happen if we defaulted as a country? I suspect the last shread of credibility we have as a nation would be gone. My integrity to stand at my word, live up to my obligations and accept responsibility for my actions has me viewed with high regard. I and I would expect most people here and around the world expect the same from the US Government. quote: Who would stand to lose the most? Those that haven't prepared for social chaos and those that don't have the ability to survive in the aftermath of said chaos. quote: I am not arguing against responsibility. And we both know the revenue curve can be changed with tax policy. Or are you one of those who think we should kneel down for the rich so we can get the scraps? I don't kneel to anyone, I work to solve my own issues, it's why I argue for a free society. We all have a skill set that we can use to provide for ourselves. There will always be the haves and the have nots, touting it isn't fair or that you desreve more than you have is no longer a cry that get's my attention. My father grew up poor. He worked hard, earned respect, was filled with pride and self worth at the sweat of his brow, he taught me the same, I'm not "rich", but I can buy the things I want. Many black men today have great power and wealth by the cultivation of their own skills. So if this country goes down the tubes I suspect freedom and personal sovereignty will soon follow. quote: Capital doesn't grow on trees and it isn't the sole respite of the banking system either. Do you suppose the banks are unhappy with the current state of play? Or are they quite content with the status quo? And if they are so happy, why? Again, the CBO has commented on this mess. quote: I just believe that there are more options than simply telling the whole country that we've got to massively readjust ourselves so that "debt" needs to be lower. We need to spend like adults and not spoiled children without a shred of sense. Now we don't have to leave people starving in the streets to get our house in order, but to simply turn our backs on our personal or collective debt and responsibilities is unsatisfactory. At least to me. Now I've been answering your questions. Why do you think Obama's trying to break our nation?

juliaoceania -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:52:58 PM)
quote: What's Gor got to do with health care? I What does my calling a man "daddy" have to do with it? quote: xbullx Ok I'll bite........Since I and other working men like me, that pay for our own care, will be supporting you all, do you have to now call me "Daddy", cause if you do I prefer Master, Daddy seems so..........pedophlipant(new word, Bull cioned a word ) [/ quote]

thishereboi -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:57:37 PM)
quote: So you think pointing out the type of dominant I like it an appropriate debating tactic? Is that why he mentioned the "daddy" thing. I honestly had no clue. That said, I don't agree that turning around and taking a swipe at goreans makes you look any better. But at least now I know where the anger is coming from.

juliaoceania -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 12:59:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: So you think pointing out the type of dominant I like it an appropriate debating tactic? Is that why he mentioned the "daddy" thing. I honestly had no clue. That said, I don't agree that turning around and taking a swipe at goreans makes you look any better. But at least now I know where the anger is coming from. I do not think I asked your opinion on my posting style

xBullx -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 1:02:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 By the way XBullx, do you own any firearms? Why yes, yes I do.... And you aren't required to use the x's when addressing me, I'll answer to Bull...........[;)]

thishereboi -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 1:02:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: So you think pointing out the type of dominant I like it an appropriate debating tactic? Is that why he mentioned the "daddy" thing. I honestly had no clue. That said, I don't agree that turning around and taking a swipe at goreans makes you look any better. But at least now I know where the anger is coming from. I do not think I asked your opinion on my posting style Well you got it anyway, so deal.

ElizabethAnne -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 1:15:31 PM)
Read what he said, IF he has to take care of you, might as well call him "Daddy", referring to how a father takes care of HIS children. I believe he also added, he was teasing you. Hello....geeesh.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 1:23:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk What would actually happen if we defaulted as a country? I suspect the last shread of credibility we have as a nation would be gone. My integrity to stand at my word, live up to my obligations and accept responsibility for my actions has me viewed with high regard. I and I would expect most people here and around the world expect the same from the US Government. quote: Who would stand to lose the most? Those that haven't prepared for social chaos and those that don't have the ability to survive in the aftermath of said chaos. quote: I am not arguing against responsibility. And we both know the revenue curve can be changed with tax policy. Or are you one of those who think we should kneel down for the rich so we can get the scraps? I don't kneel to anyone, I work to solve my own issues, it's why I argue for a free society. We all have a skill set that we can use to provide for ourselves. There will always be the haves and the have nots, touting it isn't fair or that you desreve more than you have is no longer a cry that get's my attention. My father grew up poor. He worked hard, earned respect, was filled with pride and self worth at the sweat of his brow, he taught me the same, I'm not "rich", but I can buy the things I want. Many black men today have great power and wealth by the cultivation of their own skills. So if this country goes down the tubes I suspect freedom and personal sovereignty will soon follow. quote: Capital doesn't grow on trees and it isn't the sole respite of the banking system either. Do you suppose the banks are unhappy with the current state of play? Or are they quite content with the status quo? And if they are so happy, why? Again, the CBO has commented on this mess. quote: I just believe that there are more options than simply telling the whole country that we've got to massively readjust ourselves so that "debt" needs to be lower. We need to spend like adults and not spoiled children without a shred of sense. Now we don't have to leave people starving in the streets to get our house in order, but to simply turn our backs on our personal or collective debt and responsibilities is unsatisfactory. At least to me. Now I've been answering your questions. Why do you think Obama's trying to break our nation? He's not trying to break the nation. He's trying to heal the wounds inflicted on us by Conservatives and Republicans that have taken the stand that they want to wring as much capital out of the US as they can, deposit it offshore, and wait till they are ready to bail. Leaving us holding the bag. They run their Corporations for the betterment of themselves and their "stockholders". Why do you think that all of the money has been poured into China and southeast asian economies? Is it because they are better at what they do? Come on now. open your eyes and look around. The "finanacial crisis" of 2008 was manufactured and timed just right to try and give maximum effect. They had all the right people in place to make the effective transfer of 3 trillion in capital from us to them. Obama is trying to fix this situation. He is trying to appeal to our better selves and stop us from being such selfish little thugs in the sandbox. Why can't the top 1% be expected to shoulder an increasing amount of the taxes? We have afforded them the safest country on earth for them to amass fortunes without worrying about murder and mayhem on them. We have backed it up with the greatest army on earth so that no nation can step in their way or keep them from their appointed goals(Iraq/Afhghanistan). So, excuse me if I tell them bastards they have to pay their fair share for the ability to live in my country and enjoy the freedoms they are allowed...

MercilessMarcy -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 1:25:34 PM)
First, NO, I don't believe our country is PURPOSELY being destroyed. I think our systems no longer work due to corruption and that we have simply outgrown them. The changes that are needed are politically explosive and will not be made until after global mega-depression FORCES us (as a nation, and the world governments as well) to make fundamental changes. Ignoring a problem will not prevent it from happening. After a mega-depression radical reforms will eventually be made. Major reforms are needed POLITICAL REFORMS i.e. Campaign finance reform, Media reform, Lobbying reform, Improving governmental efficiency PRODUCTIVITY IMPROVEMENTS (think automobile industry for one) there are ten and too complicated to name here. Econonic Stablization: reforms will generate investments and consumer confidence, and ensure that the bubbles that created the mega-depression never happen again. (housing bubble, banking bubble, stocks and derivatives, foreign exchange, bonds, gold) There will be three major problems of the Mega-Depression, with inflation being extraordinarily high all over the world, international trade will virtually collapse, and unemployment will be very high everywhere. Think-Tanks at McGill University believe inflation will be addressed by the implementation of EPRITS (electronic Property Rights Transfer System). Unemployment will be addressed by welfare and employment/unemployment benefit reforms. Balanced trade will be addressed through the implementaion of the IMU (International Monetary Unit). Which means, yes, the dollar will fail, probably by 2012 or 2013. These are very complex problems, but they do have solutions. PREPARE YOURSELVES!

DomYngBlk -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 1:30:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne What's Gor got to do with health care? I get amused when a person who follows Gorean ethos can't be shot down any other way, someone invariably tosses out...oh well you live on Gor. I happen to know Bull does NOT live on Gor, but right here in the US. Really, try to be more creative, and keep to the subject matter, and not the proverbial Gorean red herring, besides I don't think they are in season. :) I do believe her point was Bull was caught with his pants down so to speak in the argument and went for the insult card instead of admitting he is incorrect about healthcare. If you can't argue the point do the 180 and go the other way. Dickless Cheney would be proud.

hlen5 -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 1:48:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xBullx quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 By the way XBullx, do you own any firearms? Why yes, yes I do.... And you aren't required to use the x's when addressing me, I'll answer to Bull...........[;)] Well that's a relief, those x's were such a chore.[;)][;)][;)] Would you be prepared if revolution was needed? ETA: emoticons!

ElizabethAnne -> RE: Shocker, debt unsustainable... (7/28/2010 2:38:42 PM)
Does anyone really know how much we are going to affected by Obamacare? Starting January 1st, 2011, no longer will an employee's part of health care come out BEFORE taxes, we will now be taxed on our portion, which will throw many people into a higher tax bracket. I have a Health Spending Card, money that comes out before taxes, up until 2011, I could use this card for any over the counter drugs, such as ibuprofen, etc. Starting January 1st, 2011, they cannot be used for ANY over the counter. Another benefit...GONE. We will be paying three years for this supposed cure all for the health care before many see any benefits at all. Then in 2014, if you don't have health care, you will be fined. The ONLY good thing about this plan I have heard, is insurance companies can no longer use pre-existing conditions to exclude anyone. We will see.

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