RE: submissives ~ not submissive (Full Version)

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starymists -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/18/2006 4:43:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subgarfield
Good point... i simply answered in context of comment received. Respect begets respect it's a two way venue... i believe that strongly! Maybemaybenot  edited his post with a much less facetious reply and i responded in kind.
subgarfield


Isn't this all too often the point? That whether you are a Dominant or a submissive, people sometimes have the tendency to answer in the context they percieve based on what they are reading into what is written?
 
I think often, the internet is a poor vehicle to really getting to know people, largely because a lot of times, we read into the words intents, inflections and meanings that are not readily apparent. Face to face, we have a lot more data to go on in interpreting what is being said *like body language*. On line, you have to take the words at face value. All too often, as a submissive, I receive emails demanding things. I receive emails in which it is readily apparent that my profile has not been read. I receive emails from Dominants who assume because he/she is a Dom and I am a sub, that I will automatically do what I am told to do. And like it or not, if I'm not careful, I can fall into making assumptions about what another means based on my experience. And that is also true with respect to Dominants who have gotten a handful of disrespectful emails in response to his/hers. It becomes all too easy to start reading things into the words that were never intended.
 
With respect to pictures, most of the time, if you aren't willing to send a pic within the first 30 minutes of chat, or within the first couple of emails, you suddenly become a 'wanna be submissive who doesn't know her place' or you are a 'submissive who needs to be taught a lesson in protocol' *and yes, those are quotes from some past emails/chats*. And some of us are a little more cautious about disclosing things that can be used to identify who we are. For myself, I have to testify in court on a fairly regular basis. It just would not due for an over eager defense attorney to discover that I live an alternative lifestyle...it can be used to paint me as less than credible. And as I tend to enjoy being employed, and love the work I do, I'm not overly interested in taking those kinds of risks. Some understand that, and some don't.
 
One thing I know for certain, as in so many places, the internet is a vehicle to put people in touch with others that normally wouldn't have been met. But it is also a place where people engage in living fantasies. Some people are for real and some aren't. Trick is to stick around long enough to learn to tell the difference.



sweetamber -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/18/2006 9:35:40 PM)

There is a difference between courtesy and respect.  If someone asked me for a pic like that, they wouldn't get either.

I'm submissive, but I am not going to submit to everyone, especially with someone I am just beginning to correspond with.  We would be in the getting to know stage.  Respect means that you hold someone in high standing, that is earned over time.  Courtesy is a given unless its proven to me you don't deserve.

amber



theprofitprinces -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/18/2006 10:16:19 PM)

well even though they claim to be submissive they still are human beings. we all can be mean and say hurtful things. One submissive told me he didnt believe in obeying a mistress he was not committed to and could do as he pleased. He never served me and eventually we stopped talking. He did vote for me on my toplists however lol. Well the dominant needs to maintain control over her/his slaves. There are a lot of wannabe dommes as well. Let's not forget that.



crouchingtigress -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/18/2006 10:48:13 PM)

Only 2% 5% are viable and sincere? 
 
That has not been my experiance, I would say 89% are viable and sincere, but then things that dont mesh end up making it not work, like distance, chemistry, and d/s compatability. I have found most boys that write to me are sincere, just not always a good fit.



RavenMuse -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 1:36:38 AM)

If a girl contacting me is disrespectful then chances are she isn't who I am looking for. It doesn't particularly bother me for more than the smallest of moments, maybe she is having a bad day and simply looking for someone on whom to vent her spleen, I simply don't play. Delete, block, move on.

Unless she is your or wishes to become so then sub or Dom makes no diffrence, the dynamic isn't in play and it is simply another person on the other end of the keyboard. They maybe submissives but they don't wear your collar and owe you nothing. Nicer when folks act with at least basic civility but alas, these days that is oft the exception rather than the rule. Just the way of things an needs to be understood else your skin is too thin for the internet.



DolceFarNeinte -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 1:54:59 AM)

I,m sick and tired of the so called doms online telling me I,m not submissive enough because I don,t buy into their online fantasy.Any half decent dom can inspire you to get into your sub role in real life experience.Domination isn,t key board based its real life based,carnal knowlage.Lets not forget these sites are inundated with flakey vanillas jumping on the band wagon of our sexuality for a quick thrill,and spoiling it for the seekers of intamacy.If a doms real and he wants you,he won,t waste his life with months of negoshiation but will come and see you and make it into a real life event.



subgarfield -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 3:00:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

quote:


I don't think any of us know the answer to this. It's annoying for most people. I wish I had something more to offer, but I just don't.
Maybe just concentrate on being the best sub you can be and let wankers be wankers and posers be posers.


In a few short sentences you have pretty much summed it up and foolish me looking for something deeper. In the end yes, wankers will be wankers and posers will be posers... human nature i guess. Rest of us subs can follow your good advice and strive to be the best the best we can be.
Thanks.



subgarfield -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 3:05:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: starymists

quote:

ORIGINAL: subgarfield
Good point... i simply answered in context of comment received. Respect begets respect it's a two way venue... i believe that strongly! Maybemaybenot  edited his post with a much less facetious reply and i responded in kind.
subgarfield


Isn't this all too often the point? That whether you are a Dominant or a submissive, people sometimes have the tendency to answer in the context they percieve based on what they are reading into what is written?
 
I think often, the internet is a poor vehicle to really getting to know people, largely because a lot of times, we read into the words intents, inflections and meanings that are not readily apparent. Face to face, we have a lot more data to go on in interpreting what is being said *like body language*. On line, you have to take the words at face value. All too often, as a submissive, I receive emails demanding things. I receive emails in which it is readily apparent that my profile has not been read. I receive emails from Dominants who assume because he/she is a Dom and I am a sub, that I will automatically do what I am told to do. And like it or not, if I'm not careful, I can fall into making assumptions about what another means based on my experience. And that is also true with respect to Dominants who have gotten a handful of disrespectful emails in response to his/hers. It becomes all too easy to start reading things into the words that were never intended.
 
With respect to pictures, most of the time, if you aren't willing to send a pic within the first 30 minutes of chat, or within the first couple of emails, you suddenly become a 'wanna be submissive who doesn't know her place' or you are a 'submissive who needs to be taught a lesson in protocol' *and yes, those are quotes from some past emails/chats*. And some of us are a little more cautious about disclosing things that can be used to identify who we are. For myself, I have to testify in court on a fairly regular basis. It just would not due for an over eager defense attorney to discover that I live an alternative lifestyle...it can be used to paint me as less than credible. And as I tend to enjoy being employed, and love the work I do, I'm not overly interested in taking those kinds of risks. Some understand that, and some don't.
 
One thing I know for certain, as in so many places, the internet is a vehicle to put people in touch with others that normally wouldn't have been met. But it is also a place where people engage in living fantasies. Some people are for real and some aren't. Trick is to stick around long enough to learn to tell the difference.


Thank You for a insightful response. It has caused me to reflect and contemplate... something i don't usually do this early in the morning :-)



subgarfield -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 3:15:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

Only 2% 5% are viable and sincere? 
 
That has not been my experiance, I would say 89% are viable and sincere, but then things that dont mesh end up making it not work, like distance, chemistry, and d/s compatability. I have found most boys that write to me are sincere, just not always a good fit.


89%... heartening to hear of a much more impressive statistic and also feedback that by far You have found most are indeed sincere. Perhaps it is the way one presents oneself on first impression or as others have commented the limitations of online interactions as compared to in-person.



Dustyn -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 3:27:06 AM)

I echo the sentiments on here.  Respect isn't something that should just be handed out all willy-nilly.If you have to command respect, 99 out of 100 times, you don't deserve it.  Respect is something that evolves, not something that spontaneously shows up out of the blue.

And, frankly, almost every single time I see someone talking about wanker this and poser that, I instantly start wondering if the person bitching doesn't have a slight touch of meglomania, in as much as they consider themselves to be an ultimate authority on things.  Soap boxes are fun things to stand on, but you should always check to make sure the audience doesn't have rocks in their pockets or tomatoes in their coats.

Don't dictate as if you are the be all and end all.  Simply state that you, personally, find this act or that act offensive, state why you feel that way and leave it at that.  I, personally, took fair amount of offense at the tone of your post, even though I know it was written out of frustration and not a true desire to infuriate the masses.  Just because you do things a certain way, in terms of bd/sm, doesn't mean i's the only way.  Give latitude and it will be given. Judge and ye shall be judged.

Just my take on the whole thing.

- Dustyn



subgarfield -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 3:35:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

If a girl contacting me is disrespectful then chances are she isn't who I am looking for. It doesn't particularly bother me for more than the smallest of moments, maybe she is having a bad day and simply looking for someone on whom to vent her spleen, I simply don't play. Delete, block, move on.

Unless she is your or wishes to become so then sub or Dom makes no diffrence, the dynamic isn't in play and it is simply another person on the other end of the keyboard. They maybe submissives but they don't wear your collar and owe you nothing. Nicer when folks act with at least basic civility but alas, these days that is oft the exception rather than the rule. Just the way of things an needs to be understood else your skin is too thin for the internet.



Although submissive, respect is important and i  have no interest in interacting with those that lack it... as You comment; don't play and move on! As it is myself that usually initiates contact it has been my experience sincerity, civilty and respect indeed does receive me the same and as such it has not been a issue for myself personally.

True if one is not owned, nothing is owed... except civility perhaps.



subgarfield -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 3:44:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

I echo the sentiments on here.  Respect isn't something that should just be handed out all willy-nilly.If you have to command respect, 99 out of 100 times, you don't deserve it.  Respect is something that evolves, not something that spontaneously shows up out of the blue.

And, frankly, almost every single time I see someone talking about wanker this and poser that, I instantly start wondering if the person bitching doesn't have a slight touch of meglomania, in as much as they consider themselves to be an ultimate authority on things.  Soap boxes are fun things to stand on, but you should always check to make sure the audience doesn't have rocks in their pockets or tomatoes in their coats.

Don't dictate as if you are the be all and end all.  Simply state that you, personally, find this act or that act offensive, state why you feel that way and leave it at that.  I, personally, took fair amount of offense at the tone of your post, even though I know it was written out of frustration and not a true desire to infuriate the masses.  Just because you do things a certain way, in terms of bd/sm, doesn't mean i's the only way.  Give latitude and it will be given. Judge and ye shall be judged.

Just my take on the whole thing.

- Dustyn



Words of wisdom and with insight... thank you! True my comments absolutely are in the context of frustration. As for ever considering myself the ultimate authority on things... hardly! Lol. Do however confess to being opinionated on various issues. 



StrictWhip -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 4:27:49 AM)

I just thought I would weigh in here and say that I have received over 200 inquiries, comments, requests for information, etc., since placing my profile on collarme.   I have yet to receive one message that I could call disrespectful.  You might want to tell your Domme friend to hang in there and give it another try.  I also want to say, that over the years I have met many people from on line.  Again, I have never been disappointed, I have never regretted a single meeting.  If YOU are real, most of the people you will encounter will be relieved and feel comfortable being real as well.  Just something you might want to suggest.



bandit25 -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 4:37:26 AM)

I, too, have received several inquiries for information and, at first, they are usually at least somewhat respectful.  It's after I say "no thanks" (and I ALWAYS answer every email I receive) that the emails get nasty.  I don't understand why, after reading so many profiles and journals that say "just answer, even if it is to say 'no thanks'", and that's exactly what I do, I get so many negative responses after that.  However, to be fair, I do get a few return emails that thank me for responding.



subgarfield -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 5:17:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictWhip

I just thought I would weigh in here and say that I have received over 200 inquiries, comments, requests for information, etc., since placing my profile on collarme.   I have yet to receive one message that I could call disrespectful.  You might want to tell your Domme friend to hang in there and give it another try.  I also want to say, that over the years I have met many people from on line.  Again, I have never been disappointed, I have never regretted a single meeting.  If YOU are real, most of the people you will encounter will be relieved and feel comfortable being real as well.  Just something you might want to suggest.


Have asked of Her to give it another try and i shall follow Your advice and ask Her once more. In hearing of a 89% positive response and also of Your experience with over 200 replies it provides positive inducement for me to offer as encouragement. Really do hate to see Her throw in the towel so easily. I have served a number of Dommes and appreciate having experienced Her wonderful magic. She truly loves and desires to grow Her dominant persona further.

Actually the responses She received were positive in tone originally, it was at the rejection or request stage where it sometimes turned nasty. Perhaps it was in Her style of communication or in being very French perhaps Her wording and grammar... i really don't know. Obviously She did not remain on collarme long enough for a larger sampling of responses. Even myself with a first time comment here find the tone of responses changing... fewer being inpatient or dismissive in tone with my post and with time responses becoming more insightful and constructive which i do greatly appreciate. Another example of why Should give it another shot and show more resolve, perhaps Her expectations exceeded reality.



StrictWhip -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 9:52:50 AM)

When I send "rejection letters" to potential hopefuls, I treat it much as I would in turning down an applicant for a job.  My letters go something like this.  "Thank you for taking an interest in my profile.  Unfortunately, I do not think we are a compatible match because of ___________  (whatever the reason is).  Again, thank you for your interest and I wish you the very best on your search.  Ms. StrictWhip. 

One or two have chosen to  appeal my decision and because I enjoy conversation, the debate may stretch another letter or two.  But again, because I treat them with respect, nobody feels the inevitable "sting" of rejection that tends to bring out the worst in some people.  Some people would think that taking the time to respond to over 200 e-mails in that manner is too much of an inconvenience.  I never see it that way.  These are real human beings we are dealing with, and whether I choose to include them in my inner circle or not, I NEVER take that lightly. 



Submotive -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 11:24:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subgarfield

Find it amazing how many so called submissives top from the bottom, show disrespect and are anything but submissive. In recently reading various Mistress quickie texts on collarme and and to much lesser degree over the years on Maxfisch and other sites it seems there are a great many wankers and wannabe players. If one truly is not submissive or respectful why waste the time and resources of someone who is sincere.

A new Mistress had Her profile on collarme and deleted it after four days due to primarily a few idiotic posts, requests having nothing to do with what She was seeking and disrespect... only two of fourteen were of sincere nature. Vast majority She referred to as wankers and players. One post She followed up on She asked for a photo(face not required). To me such is a testing of the subs integrity and sincerity in addition of course to see if there is physical karma and the curiosity factor. Perhaps i am bias as for myself also i prefer a photo of Mistress before making that final commitment and have no qualms in what's good for the goose is good for the gander!

The ranting, insinuations, insults and self justifications She described was amazing. Makes me glad i'm submissive as i have never experienced such nonsense nor disrespect from a Mistress.

I have always found Dommes to be respectful, not perfect but most often of excellentd character attributes and sincerity. Why can more so called subs not promote such values? Is it common especially for a Mistress posting for the first time to experience less than 5% sincere response rate with sincerity, integrity and reality of potential play or is the rate of return the same as junk mail... 2 - 5%.

subgarfield
If you are not pushing the envelope... you are not pushing hard enough!


So what's your point? waaaaaah



crazypatient -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 11:31:31 AM)

isn't this the purpose of speaking and meeting someone ahead of time?  making sure that interests, fetishes, etc, are similar, that the relationship will be something that both want?
I met one dom who said fine, have it your way, with someone else... and that was fine with me.  I want to meet someone who shares similar fantasies and such... I wish to submit, but with someone compatable!



kittensmailbox -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 11:47:33 AM)

Not a damn thing is wrong with that... i asked for release from my former Master simply because i grew past what he was able to provide for me... Granted it is about serving and doing as the Dom askes, but lets face it, ppl grow, they change... My former Master understood this... He was proud of me



Dustyn -> RE: submissives ~ not submissive (4/19/2006 11:48:05 AM)

quote:

for ever considering myself the ultimate authority on things... hardly!


I wasn't saying that is how you consider yourself.  Was saying that to some, that is how you will end up coming across, which is something I don't thinky ou are wanting, truth be told.  Nobody likes Know-It-Alls, even the inadvertant ones.  I've learned this lesson the hard way a few times. =)

Also made me wonder if your frustration came not from the things said to this Domina, but more to the fact that you were interested in knowing her better, and when she left, you blamed everyone else but her.  Doesn't really matter how much nonsense she got, she is still the one that chose to leave, instead of utilizing the delete button.

Just my views on the whole sorted mess.

- Dustyn



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