Poetic Justice ?

Poetic Justice ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 2:32:30 AM)
As the US it is believed consumes 25% of world oil resources and the recent Gulf oil disaster has happened on your own doorstep so to speak, has this disaster changed your thoughts regarding the US's insatiable need for the stuff ? Has anyone thought to change their ways, trade in their SUV for a more economic and enviromentally friendly mode of transport, or are things just the same ? What about other oil products in daily use, plastics, fertilisers, body care products, for they also drive the insatiable need for oil at it seems all costs, even the blood of our young people. Is anyone waking up to just what oil really means to us beyond the consumer lifestyle we seem to desire ?

truckinslave -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 5:28:01 AM)
Sarah Palin got a made-in America model gas-sipper, and 0bama0 got a really thrifty Chinese model. You can scroll down for the details here.

thishereboi -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 6:01:50 AM)
quote: Has anyone thought to change their ways, trade in their SUV for a more economic and enviromentally friendly mode of transport, or are things just the same ? Well, I don't have an suv. Never saw the need to own a gas guzzler. In fact, I have been concerned with environmental issues since the 70's. Welcome to the party.

Jeffff -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 6:19:33 AM)
How are you going to feel if Harley goes ahead and opens a factory in India? And I can't clearly see the name on the bike the President is riding. All i have is a right wing bloggers word for it.

truckinslave -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 6:24:53 AM)
Jefff, I'd hate to see Harley move, and I wouldn't bet any money on the origin of the bicycle either. But I LOVE the juxtaposition of the two pictures. They're humorous, but to me also somewhat revealing of the truth about the two of them

vincentML -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 6:31:58 AM)
quote: As the US it is believed consumes 25% of world oil resources and the recent Gulf oil disaster has happened on your own doorstep so to speak, has this disaster changed your thoughts regarding the US's insatiable need for the stuff ? There is more talk of conservation now but I suspect it is just talk. We have talked the talk since the oil crisis of the 1970s when Jimmy Carter appeared before the nation's TV screens in a sweater. The GM Volt will be out next year I hear but the starting price is about $41 K. The efficiency problem with electric cars is that the electricty is the result of energy transformation. For us in the forseeable future that means we need hydrocarbons to heat the water to turn the turbines and generate the electricity. Nuclear plants are far down the road and then present us with waste disposal dilemma. The land size of our nation is also a formidable barrier to any other means of transportation except trucks, trains and planes. Itty bitty little cars do not suffice. Furthermore, the reason we use so much hydocarbons is because we are the world's biggest economy, although the Chinese, are trying to catch up. The EU + UK economy is pretty comparable. What is the percent of hydrocarbon usage there I wonder? The oil eruption into the Gulf is quite dramatic because of the photo-ops. I understand oil has been soiling the Niger Delta for decades. Coal and natural gas hydrofractioning also cause serious environmental problems, especially the latter, but they are not so visible. The short answer to your question is, I think, we will not rethink seriously until the cost of hydrocarbons becomes too taxing. Deep water drilling and hydrofractioning of shale for natural gas suggest the easy stuff is no longer available. The harder to get at fuels will inevitably become costlier and costlier. The market will drive us. Like your new pic, btw.

Aneirin -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 6:43:11 AM)
The cycle Obama is riding is a TREK, which is an American maker. But like most cycle manufacturers now, all the frames generally tend to be made in the same factory in Taiwan. The groupset on the bike is likely to be Shimano or Suntour, both far eastern names of suberb quality and engineering. I think the only other groupset manufacturers who are non far eastern now are Campagnolo of Italy and Sachs Huret of france, where they actually get their products made, I don't know. The arm leading off Obama's bike is likely to be the towing arm of a single wheeled child bike, I forget the name of these now, but if memory serves me right, it is a design of American inspiration but again where it is actually made I have no idea.

truckinslave -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 6:50:49 AM)
Aneirin, I'm going to put you in my database against the time I need a bike expert.[:)]

pahunkboy -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 7:12:56 AM)
My car is 13 years old. I cant afford to save energy.

Aneirin -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 8:44:39 AM)
One thing I have noticed about my current lifestyle, is a valuable education in just what is needed to sustain a reasonable life and what is superfluous. I have learned to forage and eat sealife and now look at anything I need or think I need twice, often with the result that I don't purchase even when I have the cash. I have always been a repairer and modifier and I have taken the ethos that I will only buy second hand goods. Broken things and often discarded things discarded under the belief they are broken I find, repair and very often just give away to others that need. I also take great satisfaction in taking a useless thing and making it useful. The war time make do and mend sits well with me. Food when I buy is organic and of that due to the cost of meat, I am largely vegetarian now. I seek organic for the simple reason that just what unnatural things are introduced into non organic foodstuffs to make them saleable, in a lot of cases they are chemicals we do not need in our bodies, so I avoid. Vehicles, well for me at the moment it is a pedal cycle which is necessity only as there is no fun with some of the hills around here. I do have a motor cycle, but am unable to use that due to lack of funds at the moment, but the motorcycle is capable of 125 miles per gallon and I have rebuilt it and set it up for hill work and maximum economy. It does have a catalytic converter in the exhaust. Yes, being in the poorer bracket of society makes one think creatively about how to enjoy life, it can be a difficulty at first, but once things are working, it is truly a better existence and has propelled me towards my interests in permaculture as a better way of life.

pahunkboy -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 9:10:31 AM)
When gas went up to $4 - I moved all my errands as close to home as possible. Then gas dropped- but I still stay close to home.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 5:06:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin As the US it is believed consumes 25% of world oil resources and the recent Gulf oil disaster has happened on your own doorstep so to speak, has this disaster changed your thoughts regarding the US's insatiable need for the stuff ? Has anyone thought to change their ways, trade in their SUV for a more economic and enviromentally friendly mode of transport, or are things just the same ? What about other oil products in daily use, plastics, fertilisers, body care products, for they also drive the insatiable need for oil at it seems all costs, even the blood of our young people. Is anyone waking up to just what oil really means to us beyond the consumer lifestyle we seem to desire ? 25% of oil, 25% of world GDP. surprise surprise surprise. The rest of the OP is a bunch of nonsense.

pahunkboy -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 5:21:22 PM)
if someone wants to help and buy me a new car- that would be ok.

Aneirin -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 5:54:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin As the US it is believed consumes 25% of world oil resources and the recent Gulf oil disaster has happened on your own doorstep so to speak, has this disaster changed your thoughts regarding the US's insatiable need for the stuff ? Has anyone thought to change their ways, trade in their SUV for a more economic and enviromentally friendly mode of transport, or are things just the same ? What about other oil products in daily use, plastics, fertilisers, body care products, for they also drive the insatiable need for oil at it seems all costs, even the blood of our young people. Is anyone waking up to just what oil really means to us beyond the consumer lifestyle we seem to desire ? 25% of oil, 25% of world GDP. surprise surprise surprise. The rest of the OP is a bunch of nonsense. Yeah, and 4.5% of the world population, but if you so desperately need oil, you better be prepared to shed blood for it it as you are and have done recently and expect more enviromental disasters like the one you have just had in the oil rich fields around the US. Negligence is not the only cause for disaster, cost cutting is the biggest danger and for oil to be worth extracting, it has to contain superior profit to make the operation viable, but sure safety costs money, which will win. But in reality, is oil worth the blood of your people, do you really need it that much. Is it worth your countrymen fighting and dying in foreign lands just so you can live as you have done or is there a desperate need for change But it is not just blood you are throwing away, what about all the other resources discarded in war, copper for example, that itself becoming much in demand and so rising in cost.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 7:11:35 PM)
quote: Has anyone thought to change their ways, trade in their SUV for a more economic and enviromentally friendly mode of transport, or are things just the same ? Well, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and I filled it up 2 months ago, and still have a half a tank of gas. Actually, I think I use about as much gas mowing and weedwacking. I would like an all electric vehicle as well for just moving me around, I'd probably go on more road trips if it was cheaper though, so...... However, I do use the space quite often in the jeep, when I do drive. Anyway, I don't use that much gas. I don't even really like driving, and if I'm with someone and they are a half sane driver they are more than welcome to drive, or better yet we can put miles on their car. [:D]

thompsonx -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 8:02:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy if someone wants to help and buy me a new car- that would be ok. Nope...all you get is a pony.

thompsonx -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 8:12:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin The cycle Obama is riding is a TREK, which is an American maker. But like most cycle manufacturers now, all the frames generally tend to be made in the same factory in Taiwan. The groupset on the bike is likely to be Shimano or Suntour, both far eastern names of suberb quality and engineering. I think the only other groupset manufacturers who are non far eastern now are Campagnolo of Italy and Sachs Huret of france, where they actually get their products made, I don't know. The arm leading off Obama's bike is likely to be the towing arm of a single wheeled child bike, I forget the name of these now, but if memory serves me right, it is a design of American inspiration but again where it is actually made I have no idea. Campi makes good gear but getting replacement parts is a joke. I went to a shimano internal hub a few years ago and will never go back to a deraileur. I have two peugeots one is a 505 turbocharged diesel that get 45 mpg and the other is an 18 lb. road bike that gets about 100 miles on about 3000 calories [;)].

DCWoody -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/30/2010 11:25:52 PM)
@Harley, they've only been sort-of made in usa for yonks, they're put together there but most of the parts are made elsewhere....although IIRC it was a quality issue not a cost issue that started that pattern for them. @Electric cars....don't bother, electricity is mostly generated from hydrocarbons still, which makes electric cars massively inefficient...no matter what they tell you (the infamous prius for example). Just get a really efficient normal diesel engine. (fuck knows what you call diesel over there) @25%, I don't think the US still uses 25% of oil these days, BRIC nations have taken a larger share....

popeye1250 -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/31/2010 12:14:09 AM)
Aneirin, YahooNews recently (May?) had a front page article that stated that China is now the biggest consumer of petrolium products. If our population was stabilized we could actually cut our consumption of petrol but when we continue to add population through immigration legal and otherwise equal to adding a city the population size of Philadelphia every year then that's just not going to happen.

THELADY -> RE: Poetic Justice ? (7/31/2010 9:30:46 AM)
America has plenty of oil, we could more than serve our needs if we were allowed to get it. years ago when the arabs started drilling they sold it cheep... cheeper than we could do it. the 'crises' in the 70's was because the arabs orgnized and started charging more... it had nothing to do with a lack of oil. the tree huggers have lobbied and successfully managed to cut off our ability to access our own oil. they have pushed the oil drillers off the land, off the shores and into deep waters. there is enough oil in alaska alone to more than cover our needs. but we cannot access it. there is a postage stamp sized area set aside in alaska with oil and think about it, if a valve failed on land it would have been stopped almost immidately. now...as to our destroying the earth by heating it up.... this planet ha been here millions of years. it is agreed that the carbon and temps were much higher in the days of the dinosours...... pre pre pre industralization. now suddenly we are gonna burn up in 30, 40, 50 years if we don't stop using oil ..... pleeese..... about 5 yr.'s ago there was an error found in nasa's computers and when it was fixed they recomputed the earths temps, they found there was no rise in tempts! add to that all the 'b.s.' that came out in climate gate, where scientist emailed each other about how to manipulate(sp?) the data so they ended up with rising temps and how they kept disenting views from being published....its obivously a scam! all scientst do not agree about rising temps, but those who do not agree are hushed. Obama's science czar was claiming in the 70's that we were going into another ice age an we would have deep freezing all the way down to new york.... now he claims we are gonna burn up and supports de-industralization of america. finally oil is the basis of our entire economy. a small fraction of oil goes to run our cars, most goes into makeup, meds, vinal, plastics, ect ect ect. those elect cars...where dose the electricty come from? COAL fired plants! coal burning, oil burning, they are changing nothing! its all about fear and control. I drive a full size 83 pickup.... I like older cars... pre-computer age..... though I am cnsidering a smaller vehicle, but still older car. mainly because the people ruling us now plan on controling us into even higher prices! not just for gas, for coal too!

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