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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 1:30:46 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		fr:
If only the morons knew what "an eye for an eye" actually meant

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 5:11:57 PM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		It was considered an advance, compared to the generational blood feud, from what I've heard.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 6:41:26 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

It was considered an advance, compared to the generational blood feud, from what I've heard.


An eye for an eye means that the injured party needs to be made whole, or compensated for his loss. Not that the injured party takes the eye of the one who injured him.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 6:48:55 PM   
E3


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Status: offline 		Actualy the term comes from ancient mesopotamian law, where if compensation equeal to the matter (theft, injury, etc) could not be provided, it would come down to literaly eye for an eye. The Code of Hammurabi actualy had the specific term "eye for an eye" in it.  While the Code was the basis for modern law (compensation), lets be thankful law has moved away from such draconian basics.  Or so I was taught in both history and basic law classes many moons ago.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 6:59:57 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: E3

Actualy the term comes from ancient mesopotamian law, where if compensation equeal to the matter (theft, injury, etc) could not be provided, it would come down to literaly eye for an eye. The Code of Hammurabi actualy had the specific term "eye for an eye" in it.  While the Code was the basis for modern law (compensation), lets be thankful law has moved away from such draconian basics.  Or so I was taught in both history and basic law classes many moons ago.


You may have been sleeping during that class. The code of hammurabi and the talmud both speak of this. They speak to compensation not the removal of body parts.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 7:07:30 PM   
E3


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Status: offline 		I think you need to re-read your Code of Hamurabi dude.

Two quotes from it.

  • If a man puts out the eye of an equal, his eye shall be put out.

  • If a man knocks the teeth out of another man, his own teeth will be knocked out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hamurabi if you want to verify.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 7:21:43 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: E3
Actualy the term comes from ancient mesopotamian law, where if compensation equeal to the matter (theft, injury, etc) could not be provided, it would come down to literaly eye for an eye. The Code of Hammurabi actualy had the specific term "eye for an eye" in it.  While the Code was the basis for modern law (compensation), lets be thankful law has moved away from such draconian basics.  Or so I was taught in both history and basic law classes many moons ago.

You may have been sleeping during that class. The code of hammurabi and the talmud both speak of this. They speak to compensation not the removal of body parts.


::: sigh :::

Atheists seems to know the Bible better than most.

Old Testament speaks of revenge, retaliation and compensation.  All antecendents including three Old Testament / Torah references are nicely laid out at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye

As to Hammurabi, I quote (from that wiki link just above, not the Hammurabi link )

In the famous legal code written by Hammurabi, the principle of exact reciprocity is very clearly used. For example, if a person caused the death of another person, the killer would be put to death (Hammurabi's code, ¶230).

HOWEVER!!!!!

The new Testament states:

Matthew 5 <part of the Sermon on the Mount - that is, a direct quote from Jesus himself.  Seems he was trying to overturn the "old" law.>
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Jesus H. Christ!  Simplest research, and I mean SIMPLEST!  <I've got to find some swear words. LOL>

<edited for gooder grammer and bestest speling> 

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 8/1/2010 7:27:42 PM >

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 7:51:57 PM   
THELADY


Posts: 116
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		the thing is all about the radicals.

they are frantics and sometimes killers.

you can not reason with, or, ignored them.

Do we then tolerate them being idiots when they burn books? do we tolerate them if they drink the coolade? do we tolaret them killing us? or tolerate their demands that sheria law be followed in our courts?

where do we drawl the line?
economic sanctions do not hurt the radicals....
there is always colladeral damage, the workers really pay the price when the govt or radicals bring down the 'wrath' (sanctions) of the u.n. or usa.

where and how do we draw the line?




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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/1/2010 7:55:44 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: E3

I think you need to re-read your Code of Hamurabi dude.

Two quotes from it.

  • If a man puts out the eye of an equal, his eye shall be put out.

  • If a man knocks the teeth out of another man, his own teeth will be knocked out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hamurabi if you want to verify.



While wiki is a reasonable source for many things it is most often a summary. It is useful to dig deeper.

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/Biblequestions/eyeforeye.htm
http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/04/0407.html
http://samsonblinded.org/blog/an-eye-for-an-eye-doctrine.htm

When we read the law we must consider the whole law and not simply one passage.
Here is the whole of the code of hamurabbi with commentary
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.html
Note especially sections 198-204 where it speaks to compensation.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
196
If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

197

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If he break another man's bone, his bone shall be broken.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

198

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If he put out the eye of a freed man, or break the bone of a freed man, he shall pay one gold mina.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

199

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If he put out the eye of a man's slave, or break the bone of a man's slave, he shall pay one-half of its value.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

200

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a man knock out the teeth of his equal, his teeth shall be knocked out. [ A tooth for a tooth ]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

201

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If he knock out the teeth of a freed man, he shall pay one-third of a gold mina.


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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 5:04:09 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I didn't think conservatives could get anymore retarded regarding reality, religion, and history. But this takes the cake!

So....what other organization burned books in history? What other organization hates another group of people, and demonizes them at every chance? What other organization was systematically keeping its 'flock' ignorant and foolish of reality and history? They even hate gays, just like another organization in history...

This has to be a stunt. No one is THIS retarded.


The most interesting thing to me is wondering how 0bama0 will try to stop it, followed by the spectacle of the courts jumping through hoops to try to allow the burning of the US flag but not the Koran.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 5:10:45 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		"Code of Hammurabbi"? Tell me, is this online only or are there printed versions? Would you know the ISBN number by any chance?

It must be a work of Satan after all, constructed to deceive from the path of righteousness and all that. And its not long till November 5th now - not that I'll be celebrating a pagan festival under any guise of course, but bonfires are common that night and.....

E

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 8:00:49 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		Hmmm, rebuild the WTC, and resurrect those who perished.  is this your proposal?  Do Muslims do resurrection?  Actually if one is making a statement via the Quran, Koran or however one spells it, take a page from PETA and put a few drops of hog blood on the cover.  Much less destructive, equally as controversial, and more in line with "Turn the other cheek" teachings of Christ. 

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 8:38:34 AM   
E3


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Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		I dunno, you drop hogs blood on the cover of it, and Muslims will burn the now "unclean" book themselves.  Were I a Muslim, I would prefer others burn my holy book, to cleanse it with fire and remove it from the hands of the unclean, than to deface it, defile it, and insult it by simply splashing blood of an unclean animal on it.  Pity we dont have any Muslims here to weigh in on it.

Burning the book is punishing the ideals for the actions of a few radicals.
Holding all christians accountable for the actions of this one small church should be viewed on par as this book burning.  Target the fanatics, the radicals, the few perpetrating this, NOT the greater body of either religion, which have proven they are capable of living peacefully.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 11:44:44 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Hog's blood is going to be loads worse than burning it for most flavours of Islam. Of course, fundamentalists of any stripe have always been big on burning books, sadly.

BTW: precisely who besides the UK followed you into Iraq? I thought all of that bullshit about "freedom fries" back in '03 was over Chirac telling Bush to fuck off and fight his own war.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 8/2/2010 11:48:07 AM >

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 2:12:34 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

Burning the book is punishing the ideals


Sharia is no ideal.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 2:16:14 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Burning the book is punishing the ideals


Sharia is no ideal.

Not to you. Most of the middle east seems pretty taken with it, though.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 2:24:29 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Burning the book is punishing the ideals


Sharia is no ideal.

Not to you. Most of the middle east seems pretty taken with it, though.


Pretty much my point dude. Over and over I say that Islam and democracy, Islam and western freedoms are totally incompatible. Few listen, yet.

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RE: Sniff, Sniff? You smell that? - 8/2/2010 2:31:56 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Really? Maybe you should mention that to the muslims who've left those countries and moved into Europe and the 'States to get away from sort of neanderthal bullshit. They don't want sharia law any more than you do.
And if you find sharia law and shi'ite theocracies so offensive, why are you defending the invasion of Iraq that's put one in power over there? hell, even the Iranian revolution wouldn't have happened if the CIA hadn't deposed Mossadeq and put the shah back in power, so he could spend twenty years killing everybody sane in the country until only the frothing mad were left to stage a revolt. Would letting him nationalise the oil industry really have been that bad by comparison to what's happened since '79?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 38
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