One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:32:02 PM)

This has been a major theme in science fiction for some time, a centralized Earth Based government with either a socialized government and system, a true democracy or some theocratic religious based government in place.

However, there seems to be one universal problem with the idea. The common man would not go along with it, at least not now. The distrust of the United States by many countries on the planet.

Even to think that the UN could be a basis for such a government is implausible, considering how ineffective the UN is in its primary function which was to make it possible for countries to come to an understanding without war. The UN sure could not stop the US from invading Iraq, has been useless in stopping the Iranian uranium enrichment program, or stop North Korea from their nuclear ambitions.

One man, Gideon Rachman disagrees:

quote:

First, it is increasingly clear that the most difficult issues facing national governments are international in nature: there is global warming, a global financial crisis and a “global war on terror”.

Second, it could be done. The transport and communications revolutions have shrunk the world so that, as Geoffrey Blainey, an eminent Australian historian, has written: “For the first time in human history, world government of some sort is now possible.” Mr Blainey foresees an attempt to form a world government at some point in the next two centuries, which is an unusually long time horizon for the average newspaper column.

But – the third point – a change in the political atmosphere suggests that “global governance” could come much sooner than that. The financial crisis and climate change are pushing national governments towards global solutions, even in countries such as China and the US that are traditionally fierce guardians of national sovereignty.

And now for a world government Registration is free by necessary to read the article.

However, there is the counterpoint by Mark C. Partridge:
quote:

Yet, I am skeptical that “global governance” could “come much sooner than that [200 years],” as Gideon posits. For one thing, nationalism—the natural counterpoint to global government—is rising. Some leaders and peoples around the world have resented Washington’s chiding and hubris over the past two decade of American unipolarity. Russia has been re-establishing itself as a “great power”; few could miss the national pride on display when China hosted the Beijing Olympics this summer; while Hugo Chavez and his ilk have stoked the national flames with their anti-American rhetoric. The departing of the Bush Administration could cause this nationalism to abate, but economic uncertainty usually has the opposite effect.


His points on the rise of nationalism among various countries are valid.

He also points out that every time the EU places a change in the EU constitution before the citizens, it is voted down.

What he fails to address is the basic religious factions in the world today. Extremism in all religions have made any agreement between them next to impossible. These groups alone would make a world government untenable. A world government would be more likely to bring these groups together just to fight it.

The polarization in American politics would be a hurdle that such a movement would have to overcome, conservatives and liberals cannot agree on even solutions to simple problems, how would one hope to get them to agree to joining a centralized world government?

The idea that a limited number of elite political and industrial members are controlling the world governments is also brought into question by the fact that the wars the US is currently involved in has not stimulated the economy as war has in the past, but has actually had a negative impact on the American economy in general and the World Economy as a whole.

Thus there is no profit motive to maintain the current level of conflicts. Industrialists who are looking for something that would benefit their bottom line would have ended the two wars long ago, if they were indeed in power.

Conclusions

While I think that a single world government is possible given the technology we have in the form of communications, transportation, the internet, the basic problem of human nature prevents this from happening.

I agree that a single world government would evolve in two hundred years is a more plausible outcome. It would happen sooner if, by some stroke of technological genius someone actually put Miguel Alcubierre's theory of Faster than Light travel into a workable drive system and created a practical starship with a workable form of artificial gravity.

Alcubierre drive




Jeffff -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:34:06 PM)

The Anti-Christ shall create a one world government.




Moonhead -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:37:03 PM)

I don't see why an interstellar space programme would require a world government to be viable in the first place. The 18th century model of the nations with the funds to seize territories and colonise them using them to generate wealth they can use to screw over the rest of the world seems a lot more viable.




jlf1961 -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:37:27 PM)

I have read Revelations many times and really have not seen anything about a single world government. The Antichrist is mentioned, but in all honesty, I do believe that John was talking about the burning of Rome.




Moonhead -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:38:44 PM)

Isn't the most popular interpretation of the mark of the beast that it's some sort of global id card? A bit of a stretch, but one that probably makes sense if you're slightly retarded.




myotherself -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:41:15 PM)

...the anti-Christ has all the best tunes. And shoes.

I think I'm gonna like this new world order.




Moonhead -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:44:01 PM)

And he's a socialist. If the best tunes are Billy Bragg, Gang Of Four and Woody Guthrie, that's going to make a change from the metal every now and then.




jlf1961 -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:45:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I don't see why an interstellar space programme would require a world government to be viable in the first place. The 18th century model of the nations with the funds to seize territories and colonise them using them to generate wealth they can use to screw over the rest of the world seems a lot more viable.



I am not so sure about that. Once we figure out how to get off this rock in large numbers and place mining colonies on asteroids, mars and the moons of the outer planets, I think that the world might actually start working together.

It would help if someone REALLY solved the problem of nuclear fusion and actually created a workable reactor that puts out more energy than it takes to start the reaction.




myotherself -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 2:49:08 PM)

I quite like a bit of Billy Bragg every now and then...usually after a few drinks [:)]

I met him once. He has a very big nose.




E3 -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:08:27 PM)

I'm torn on the subject.

As we are now.. ALL governments are deeply entrenched in a "major religion in that area".  North America is based apon christianity, Arab states apon Islamic or Jewish faith etc.  IF there were a single world government, we would need to actualy create a brand new government, one totaly seperate from religion.  This begs the question, can religion be kept out of government, or would such an act squash religion?  (while I am pro government without religion, I am not for the squashing of religion, as while I might disagree with a particular religion here or there, it IS a cultural thing, part of what adds flavor to our species)

Right now, our system of many seperate governments might be broken, and the endless bickering between nations, cross border law disputes, economic sanctions etc prove this. BUT.  It is a broken system we have all spent time learning to live within. Some have learned to manipulate it.  Changing the system will meet opposition from EVERYONE, even if the system we change to, could improve things.  The old saying "The Devil you know".

IF trends continue in the world thanks to the present economic crisis (And Americans can claim its over ALL you want, laying off cops becuase of declining city budgets is NOT improving!), I do see more and more banks collapsing. And when economy collapses, so does the funding to protect society, and without protection, society itself, specificly organization, law, etc will collapse.  Such a total collapse would not be confined to small areas, as has occured in historic collapses of nations and empires.  It would begin small, but the nature of our world, despite its endless bickering, is in the end, all nations are tied together. If one country collapses due to its economy failing so totaly that its social structure fails, then it will cause a domino effect as it both drags other nations down, or as others scramble to safeguard themselves, and instead only make matters worse.  Such a total collapse would give birth to either SMALLER nations than are present in the world today (and one might argue these smaller nations are easier to manage), OR give rise to a true new world order.  One that begins the old fashioned empire building, a single city at a time.  Some politics here, some protection there, economic development on this side.. and outright conquering on the other.  A true modern dystopia.  Becuase such a rising government would view "personal freedom" as a risk and it would be waging war endlessly, with the lawless rogues outside its borders, and with elements within itself trying to restore lawlessness.

Once apon a time.. the USA had a chance to become the foundation for a world government.  It (thankfully) missed that chance. It does not have the ecnomic power to do such anymore.  It never had the political power to do such.  And militarily, its stretched too thin and while they have top quality equipment, their tactics are still backwards compared to many militaries in the world today.

Once apon a time, Russia had a chance to become the foundation of a world government.  The end of WW2, when they accepted peace instead. The cold war set in, and they learned a lesson ancient Rome had learned: peace is stagnation and decay for a nation.

England could have done it. Or France. They both commanded empires beyond parallel  in the world today.  BUT they lacked the technology at the time to truely solidify their holds.

No country today could do it. The UN will never do it.  It could only be achieved, if necessity made people accept it, by an entirely new entity  born of the very necessity calling for it.




jlf1961 -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:20:49 PM)

There is no unifying philosophy or force that are bringing the masses of people together. Humanity is too individualistic at this point in its development to find that one universal cause.

For a world government to actually happen, it would have to have the support of the masses. The people of the planet would have to want it, in one unifying voice. And it would not be the political or industrial elite that would be chosen to bring it about, but someone from the masses pushing for some sort of reform.




Moonhead -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:24:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I don't see why an interstellar space programme would require a world government to be viable in the first place. The 18th century model of the nations with the funds to seize territories and colonise them using them to generate wealth they can use to screw over the rest of the world seems a lot more viable.



I am not so sure about that. Once we figure out how to get off this rock in large numbers and place mining colonies on asteroids, mars and the moons of the outer planets, I think that the world might actually start working together.

It would help if someone REALLY solved the problem of nuclear fusion and actually created a workable reactor that puts out more energy than it takes to start the reaction.

It's an assumption I've seen a few times, but I can't see how it's supposed to work. Maybe I'm a cynic, but isn't that just going to lead to more competition between nations over the new resources, particularly as the earth's crust gets increasingly mined out? Now the whole cyberpunk thing of multinational corporate interests effectively replacing governments, or rendering them irrelevant without doing anything about them, I could see arising from that.
I think the notion of a world government is something left over from much older sf, that still lingers despite looking steadily more absurd with every year that passes. It's like people crossbreeding with aliens or whatever.

quote:

I quite like a bit of Billy Bragg every now and then...usually after a few drinks

I met him once. He has a very big nose.

It's how he manages that deep, velvety baritone, I'm told. [;)]
Cracking writer, though. He's penned some absolutely beautiful songs.




mnottertail -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:25:17 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgZ4ammawyI




ElectraGlide -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:29:27 PM)

As far as going to another planet, we would wreck it and tear it up like this one. Lets leave the rest of the planet's alone.




ShaharThorne -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:29:52 PM)

[sm=jerry.gif]




Aylee -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:39:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The idea that a limited number of elite political and industrial members are controlling the world governments is also brought into question by the fact that the wars the US is currently involved in has not stimulated the economy as war has in the past, but has actually had a negative impact on the American economy in general and the World Economy as a whole.


I have never figured out how taking one's resources out of their area and moving them halfway around the world and then destroying them is supposed to "stimulate the economy." 

~~~~

However, on topic, I am in the camp that believe that if there was a great enough threat then a world government or leadership would occur.  I believe that humanity could be brought togeather for at least a time out of a sense of fear. 




vincentML -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 3:55:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

There is no unifying philosophy or force that are bringing the masses of people together. Humanity is too individualistic at this point in its development to find that one universal cause.

For a world government to actually happen, it would have to have the support of the masses. The people of the planet would have to want it, in one unifying voice. And it would not be the political or industrial elite that would be chosen to bring it about, but someone from the masses pushing for some sort of reform.


When in all of human history has a new form of govt had the support of the masses? I cannot think of one example seriously. New govts are formed by coersion of one sort or another not from mass support as far as i know.

I think one world govt is unlikely because we are too tribal.




vincentML -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 4:07:43 PM)

quote:

I have never figured out how taking one's resources out of their area and moving them halfway around the world and then destroying them is supposed to "stimulate the economy."


In the late 1930s and through the 1940s the US Govt acted as the major consumer in a command economy and created enormous demand for the weapons of war. Auto factories were converted to make army tanks, etc. But it was a temporary circumstance and could not have lasted much longer I think. Fortunately, after WW II the predicted recession was delayed by demand for new houses by the returning troops who set about starting new families, and the Levittown suburb in Long Island, NY was the start of a new trend in communities. The children of those returning GIs were the babyboomers who came of college age in the 60s.

Frankly, all our wars since then have been too small to recreate the same kind of demand, not that i am advocating large, industrial warfare. Just sayin.




jlf1961 -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 4:13:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


When in all of human history has a new form of govt had the support of the masses? I cannot think of one example seriously. New govts are formed by coersion of one sort or another not from mass support as far as i know.

I think one world govt is unlikely because we are too tribal.


There have been instances when there was a large popular support for a fundamental change in government, although they have always been in the form of a violent overthrow of an existing government by the masses.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: One World Government: Conspiracy Theory or Inevitable Future? (8/2/2010 4:13:55 PM)

fast reply

ahhhh... not to burst anyone's bubble but before we start going and wrecking other planets...we'd have to get there first and that really seems unlikely and for the exact same reasons, unlikely they will ever becoming to us.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18547_6-reasons-space-travel-will-always-suck.html




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