RE: Detroit. (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Detroit. (8/4/2010 2:12:12 PM)

It is never easy...St Louis used to have a wonderful trolley, or light rail, system. A bus company bought up the company then closed the light rail and sold off the right of ways in the 60's. Now it costs a fortune to rebuild the system and make the inner city accessible to the white flight county. Just the right of ways or the in place rail system is a huge plus for Detroit even if in disrepair.

But of course you are right it takes money to at least get started but other cities have attracted new industries with less resources. I think part of Detroit’s problem is its crime reputation. That is why I stressed social change in my first post.

I just don’t think renovation and a new direction is as impossible as you paint it. It will just take some new thinking...a positive forward looking aggressive government and perhaps some help on the federal level.

Butch



pahunkboy -> RE: Detroit. (8/4/2010 2:20:56 PM)

I do not think it is fixable.

At best we can try to stop other smaller areas from the blight.



kdsub -> RE: Detroit. (8/4/2010 2:38:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I do not think it is fixable.

At best we can try to stop other smaller areas from the blight.



Everything is fixable my friend... mankind has been reinventing itself from the beginning. Look at China 50 years ago... how about S. Korea...How many news reels have you seen of the destruction of Japanese, Russian, and German cities after the war... they were in much greater disrepair than Detroit.

Look at all the third world countries building and pulling themselves from poverty.

There is nothing holding back the redevelopment of Detroit but the false perception of hopelessness.

Preacher Butch



thishereboi -> RE: Detroit. (8/4/2010 5:49:47 PM)

Didn't see that one coming did ya[8D]



BoiJen -> RE: Detroit. (8/4/2010 7:43:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Look at China 50 years ago... how about S. Korea...How many news reels have you seen of the destruction of Japanese, Russian, and German cities after the war... they were in much greater disrepair than Detroit.



Those cities and countries had a dedicated source of funding.

You have yet to propose any viable method of getting funds into Detroit to start working any of these plans. Detroit's social history is intimately tied to it's economic success. When the economy is good, and jobs are in the city, crime is down. Race riots and crime didn't go up in the city until after industry started pulling out. This is Detroit's history and method of operation.

Seriously, do some research on the city and it's history. If you don't care to do that before commenting, then you only have the ability to speculate rather than making informed suggestions.

boi



Marini -> RE: Detroit. (8/4/2010 7:51:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Look at China 50 years ago... how about S. Korea...How many news reels have you seen of the destruction of Japanese, Russian, and German cities after the war... they were in much greater disrepair than Detroit.



Those cities and countries had a dedicated source of funding.

You have yet to propose any viable method of getting funds into Detroit to start working any of these plans. Detroit's social history is intimately tied to it's economic success. When the economy is good, and jobs are in the city, crime is down. Race riots and crime didn't go up in the city until after industry started pulling out. This is Detroit's history and method of operation.

Seriously, do some research on the city and it's history. If you don't care to do that before commenting, then you only have the ability to speculate rather than making informed suggestions.

boi



One of the biggest problems Detroit has is lack of JOBS and INDUSTRY.
That is the primary problem!
All the industries that pulled out in the past 25 years, have never come back.

Re-building Detroit alone, without bringing back some sort of industry, will not save it.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1925796,00.html



AnimusRex -> RE: Detroit. (8/4/2010 10:02:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
]

Rex, but all those farms are feeding half the world. If the govt stopped using our money to subsidise them countries like Somalia would have to go back to eating dung beatles.


Not quite- our subsidized farms make unfair competition for the world's farms, forcing 3rd world countries to import our crops; without the subisides they would grow their own, as they have for thousands of years. You don't really think most of the worlds population was dying of starvation before the New Deal did you?

quote:

As for Navy ships they have to be on the coast although I don't think Norfolk, Va is the best place for them with an hour and a half long sea detail to get into or out of the place. I think it's about 20 miles to get out into open water! Plus, it's just not a good idea to keep so many Naval ships in one place.
Portland Maine has a deep water harbor. So does Newport, R.I.

So we agree- we are spending way too much on naval procurement, simply to prop up the economies of influential Senators' states.

quote:

And don't even mention ending "foreign aid", we'll be barraged with "starving children commercials" paid for by the lobbyists and lawyers on K street in Washigton! (Ultimately paid for with Taxpayer Dollars!)


Please google "foreign aid" and come back and tell us who the biggest recipients of our foreign aid are- (Protip- they rhyme with "Bizrael" and "Heejypt"- and no, it has not thing one to do with starving children.

quote:

And the three "do nothing depts," Energy, Education and State could be ended as well saving us who knows how many tens of billions!


I was a vociferous critic of the creation of the Dept of Education, and still am- I don't think it is accomplishing anything. But please go here and tell us how much we spend (as a percentage of our budget) on that Dept. (Hint divide 0.046 Trillion by 3.5 Trillion- if you get anything more than 1.3% recheck the math)

Ditto for Dept of Energy- divide 0.028 Trillion by 3.5 Trillion- you should get about 8/10 of 1%.

Feel free to eliminate the State Department- but expect a furious battle from the Defense Dept- they use State as a cover for their cloak and dagger/ political work.

So my point was that much of what we spend is actually a form of welfare to prop up the powerful corporations that enjoy the gravy train, or a form of pork that enriches the favored constituents of a few districts; if Detroit had been making tanks and Hummers instead of Chevys, they would still be fat and happy, and no one would be talking about "welfare dependency".



kdsub -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 8:01:38 AM)

How about you doing some research instead of doom and gloom...Check THESE ideas out... Get on the band wagon and get involved.


Butch



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 8:13:21 AM)

I'm all for diverting foreign aid from countries that provide no strategic advantage to us and rebuilding American cities and industries instead of theirs.



thishereboi -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 9:04:48 AM)

quote:

All the industries that pulled out in the past 25 years, have never come back.


The race riots were in the 60's, that was more than 25 years ago.



kdsub -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 10:50:50 AM)

There is little we agree on but your post we do!

Butch



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 11:09:01 AM)

There really is no "saving" of Detroit, or Michigan, in the sense that we will be what we once were.

There is no "repurposing" of land or infrastructure. You've heard of the rails-to-trails initiative that took place all over the country? Those are ripped out rail lines!! Yes, there are still trains running, but to rebuild lines to foster more growth? Unlikely to impossible. Drive along the interstate from border to border, and count the factories that are burnt out and shattered. Have your kids count the burned out houses, it's good practice.

Ten years ago, the folks at the unemployment office told a group of us that if we wanted reliable work we should LEAVE MICHIGAN. I wish that I could have taken that advice, but many of us are trapped here in houses that we cannot sell. PROFESSIONALS are out of work. People that work in information technology, that was supposed to be all safe---until it got outsourced to India! As an accountant, I can tell you that if businesses are closing, rather than opening, there is no need for anyone to count their monies.

What are folks going into here? The health industry. Hippocrates preserve any sick folks over the next twenty years, because the industry is going to be flooded with an army of people who have no business caring for the sick, they are just in search of a livelihood. Perfect motivator, for the person who dishes your pain meds, right? Other professions? Well, the government has a fund to help you go back to school IF you can find three employers who are hiring in that area. A guy I met last week wanted to go into medical equipment repair, and he couldn't find employers who were hiring. For this supposedly hot field of work.

Disinformation, anyone?

So, WHAT ARE THOSE OTHER STATES DOING? What can we emulate that is even remotely practical? We need a serious RESTART button, and the film industry is NOT it.



LaTigresse -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 12:12:51 PM)

Jen, thank you for sharing the links to the photos. It's heart wrenching to see.

My son visits Detroit often and likes to wander around, taking photos. His are like those you've shared.

I remember the first time I saw......I was reminded of photos of Europe after war.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 12:52:49 PM)

But but but the stimulus package saved the auto industry, including Ford that got no stimulus money. I know its true, Obama said so this morning.



BoiJen -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 2:38:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How about you doing some research instead of doom and gloom...Check THESE ideas out... Get on the band wagon and get involved.


Butch


Of the 25 companies listed as "fastest growing", only two are from Detroit. Both of them are more than 15 years old and together they employ less than 500 people.

Not only that, the vast majority of the business both of these companies do is OUTSIDE of the city of Detroit... hell, even outside of Michigan. I'd also like to poll the employees to find out where they live. My bet would be less than 10% actually live inside of the city. Which means these are companies who found some warehouses in the more than 15 years ago and use that space to manage their business that occurs elsewhere. They don't actually feed Detroit. Nice try though.

The pictures I posted aren't the last of ancient giants and some kind of rarity within the city of Detroit, they're the rule.

Painting this picture with roses of prosperity or flowers of eases will only get you laughed at, unless you go inside of the city and start preaching there. Then, they'd shoot you. Don't believe me? Go try it. Don't have those balls, then ask the other posters here who have lived in and around the city within the last decade. They'll tell you.

What Detroit needs is a few big companies with the ability to invest in the city as a base. less than $100,000,000/yr between the two companies listed in the article isn't gonna do that when Detroit needs more than that to just clear to abandoned lots. Industry, BIG industry is what Detroit needs back because it's literally not designed to be able to handle anything else. And you can thank Ford for that.

boi

PS. Thank you Ms. LaT



Marini -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 2:49:00 PM)

Great post Jen,

I remember when the plants started closing in the 80s.
I don't live in Detroit, but I just could not believe that people didn't fully realize what was happening to them.
People protested a little, but not enough was done then.
I remember thinking as they started closing down plant after plant, "Where are all those people going to work?"

It was like watching something tragic happen, and no one see's it until years later.
People all over the US should have rose up and raised hell back THEN.
We all sat back and let this shit happen, like the dummies we were.


Now, here we are, lol, 25 years later, shaking our heads and trying to figure out how to get the jobs back.

Now, we have little pockets sprinkled all over the US, that are very similar to Detroit, and we are still sitting around "watching it go down".

What killed Detroit, was big business/corporations pulling out: that is what can bring it back.

I am not even sure what to say any more, at some point people that don't raise up and take it to the streets big time, deserve what happens to them.

The only thing sadder than Detroit, is the fact America didn't even learn from it.
Flash forward to NOW.
People that don't learn from the past, are doomed to keep repeating it.
....................................America 2010..................................................

Where or where have all the jobs gone? {Sing this to the tune "Where have all the flowers gone?"}

http://www.opednews.com/sherry022404_jobs.htm



BoiJen -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 3:04:47 PM)

What really pisses me off is that Haiti has an earthquake and in days it has billions of dollars to rebuild.

We go into an unwarranted war in Iraq and spend billions of dollars to help them rebuild in the last 9 years.

Neither of these countries contribute or have contributed directly to the success of the U.S. as a nation or economic entity.

But...

Detroit, the largest contributor of manpower and manufacturing during World War II suffers huge losses and begins to deteriorate in the 60's and nothing is done in almost 50 years to save it.

THAT'S FUCKED UP!

boi



Marini -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 3:10:21 PM)

Since the 60s? I thought Detroit started sliding in the late 1970s.



BoiJen -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 4:22:11 PM)

The race riots were in the 60's. While major slides in economic health may have made themselves apparent in the 70's, Detroit was loosing it's economic base in the 50's leading up to the race riots in the 60's.

boi



domiguy -> RE: Detroit. (8/5/2010 4:45:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

But but but the stimulus package saved the auto industry, including Ford that got no stimulus money. I know its true, Obama said so this morning.



Wilbur, please provide the quote where Obama said that Ford was saved by the stimulus money.

I know it's false, because you typed it out.

You have been caught spreading falsehoods and I imagine that this instance is no different. Your posts make you out to be a liar.

You are rarely honest or correct.

Please quote this as wilbur has me on block...wilbur hates to be confronted with his own lies.




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