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New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 7:20:01 PM   
Infinityatl


Posts: 2
Joined: 4/18/2006
Status: offline 		I am fairly new to the lifestyle, but am very interested. I am lucky enough to have found a slave-curious significant other and soon to be wife. However, my slave is quite defiant at the moment, unfortunately, it's probably a testament to my beginner status. She has already hidden her collar along with a few other notable wrong doings.

I am looking for advice on how to break her properly, or new and innovative ways to punish a slave that help to force them into full cooperation.

I'd like to ask all of you who may have had an unruly slave at one time or another if I could borrow some of your better ideas or tricks of the trade, so to speak.

Thank you in advance for the advice!
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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 7:23:50 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		90% of the time, disobedience is due to something other than just disobedience.

She's insecure and testing the limits, she's needy for attention and can't ask for it like a big girl, she's afraid of something and acting out as a way to distract...other reasons.

The best thing to do is sit down and have an Adult Talk- is she a big girl who agreed to follow these rules?  If not, then there's a big problem right there.  Has some demon possessed her body and thus make her incapable of controlling her body and orders?  If not, then there's a big problem right there.

I don't play games with things like that.  You agree to submit and obey.  You either show me you're mature enough to follow words with actions or we don't "play" at all.

Those might be harsh words for her, but trust me, nipping it in the bud now- especially if you can avoid the "punish/disobey/attention/punish" cycle, is well worth it.  If she can't hold to her commitments, she really can't expect much out of the relationship.  ANd if she only got into the commitment to play her little fantasy games, she needs to let you know right now.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Infinityatl)
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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 7:29:10 PM   
Infinityatl


Posts: 2
Joined: 4/18/2006
Status: offline 		Well - she was willing to abandon the lifestyle to be with me, so I'm doubting your closing argument, however, on the subject previous, I don't think it's about attention.

I think it's that I'm still too easy on her so she feels as though she can take advantage of it. It's more an issue of me trying to do my part correctly than her playing mind games or being attention-starved. No slave is going to obey someone who doesn't exert themselves properly.

It's more of my desire to fall into the role more fully, if you follow me.


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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 7:32:25 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Infinityatl,

Ignore Albatrosse's advice at your peril.

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 8:02:39 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		If she's playing games like "hide-the-collar", to be honest, it does not sound like she genuinely wants to be a slave. Or submissive. It sounds more like provoke and be punished, or so she hopes.
 
If you truly want to control her, and have a dominant/submissive relationship, you need to set the ground rules with her. In no uncertain terms. Perhaps write what you expect out of her on a piece of paper, and put down what you and her need in order to achieve that.
 
That's just the tip of the iceberg, by the way. None of this happens overnight.

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 8:20:43 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		I am not being a smart ass, but I am having trouble following along .
You said she was slave curious in your first post and that she abandoned the lifestyle to be with you. What lifestyle ?
" Hide the collar" does that mean hide it from you.. or hide it from collegues or the check out clerk at 7-11?

My first thoughts are the same as LA's.  I may be fiesty at times, but not disobedient.  If you don't know the motivation behind the disobedience, you can punish and re punish and you will be as cluelesss as you are now. Better to get to the root of it and work out a way to solve it.

                 mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 8:57:09 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i agree with the previous posters notes about her actions and all, but since You specifically ask about Your own, i thought maybe a bit of bottom-side feedback might help too. 

First off, in order for her to FEEL and BELIEVE in Your authority,  You have to.  she sounds like at this point she doesn't believe in it, and in some way Your post indicated You don't either.   For example.. "Break her properly"? we can't tell You that,  You have to read it in her eyes when she just surrenders because You have triggered it in her.  Only You can find that place in her.   Other Dom/mes can tell You the clear diffs between breaking her will and breaking her spirit. (That's a huge difference, one is good, one is horrible!)   But once You know the difference, You have to believe You can and will, or You can't, and won't. Trust me on this, she will know the difference.


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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/18/2006 9:11:44 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well i  know i have a tendancy to push a new Dom to see how lenient they are. See if they'll back down or put me back in my place.

Sadly if they back down i have a hard time submitting to them again. i don't have the trust in them that i need to give up control.

She may just be testing to see if You are serious about this or just playing around. If You aren't sure about Yourself and confident in Yourself she will lose trust and respect for You. IMHO anyway.

Like some of the others said, she may not really want to be in this type of relationsip and is showing it that way.

I'd suggest talking to her straight out, Find out what she's thinking. If she truely wants to try this lifestyle then set some strict ground rules.

Lord knows i'll do my damnest to get away with all kinds of stuff making my Dom corect me and keep me inline until i can trust that He's consistant. Then i can relax and enjoy serving. *grins* not to say i wont from time to time push again.

Hope this helps if even a little.

kisha

_____________________________

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/19/2006 5:04:46 AM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Let's start at the beginning...you're a person that wants to be a dominant, according to your post.  Nothing wrong with that, we all start at the beginning, don't we?You've not yet learned how to control, how to exercise control or how to inspire your submissive to want to please you.    I did say inspire, as it is not about "breaking" anything, especially with one that will be your wife.  I don't know what elements of the lifestyle you're involved with...perhaps your SO is misbehaving in order to be "punished", ie, receive a spanking or whatever.  In which case, she wouldn't get it, she'd get a discussion regarding expectations instead. (If I were dominant and her dominant). Which, btw, sounds like what you both need anyway.

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/19/2006 5:39:25 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think you should ever try to "break" someone, I mean these are people not horses that we are dealing with, so tread carefully you could really fuck her up psychology wise.
I had a good friend go through this same thing with his "slave curious" sub.  She was a slave for 3 years, lots of arguments, then left him after 8 months of marriage, now for 10 years he owes alimony.
It sounds like she's having some inner turmoil going on and what I would advise you to do is sit down and have an open discussion with her. Find out what's going on in her head, you can't control the body if you don't get inside the head first. It could very well be she doesn't want to be a slave, perhaps that isn't who she is at all. It could be she's a submissive who's afraid to say anything because she doesn't want to loose her Dom. So she's trying to get the point across in other ways. You will not know until you talk to her.
Be sure to sort this out before you say the "I do's" because if you don't you might find yourself divorced and being HER financial slave for the next few years.

~Lashra

< Message edited by Lashra -- 4/19/2006 5:41:58 AM >

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/19/2006 6:28:25 AM   
alex311


Posts: 16
Joined: 3/12/2006
Status: offline 		If you think it's appropriate in the relationship, you could always enlist the assistance of a more experienced Dom/me to assist with her training.  You might get some ideas and pick up some new skills, and having a third party involved might help distinguish her desire to be a slave from her desire to play games with you.  I'd also be very careful to think about what it is that you want in the relationship/marriage...even if the D/s aspect doesn't succeed, will the two of you still be happy as a married couple?  If you're taking on a Dom role for the first time because you think it's essential to keep her happy in the relationship, I think you need to be realistic about what would happen if the D/s dynamic doesn't "take."

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/20/2006 5:02:16 PM   
Merritt27


Posts: 82
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha
Well i  know i have a tendancy to push a new Dom to see how lenient they are. See if they'll back down or put me back in my place.

Sadly if they back down i have a hard time submitting to them again. i don't have the trust in them that i need to give up control.

She may just be testing to see if You are serious about this or just playing around. If You aren't sure about Yourself and confident in Yourself she will lose trust and respect for You. IMHO anyway.


kisha...you took the words right out of my mouth.  As a somewhat "sassy sub" at times....in the past i have enjoyed pushing the buttons of a Dom i was unfamiliar with.....to see just how far i could get.  If i got too far...i was bored and done. 

Infinityatl, sounds like this girl is testing the waters.  If she has been in a D/s relationship before,  she more than likely knows who she is and where she wants to be....only question is, can You be the Dom she needs?  Take control.....sometimes actions speak louder than words....even the big "Adult" ones Albatross likes to use. 

Good luck!



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Proud Partner to PlayfulOne

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/20/2006 5:37:51 PM   
sensualkiten


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline 		Hi- ok i read the words of my fellow submissives and i read the words of the Dominants. Both seem to make some valid points. This lifestyle should not be about games. Communication is very necessary. However, i cant say i have never tested somone. And i cant say that i have never misbehaved to get something i needed. i think subs go through many phases in their development and so do Doms. But in away it sounds like you both have a lot of communicating to do. You should outline kindly but firmly your needs and expectations and she should listen and express her needs and concerns. And then you go from there. BDSM does not seem to be about breaking or forcing. Its (for me) about two main things. its about having the security of  somewhat fluid and loving structure. a structure that the world lacks. Its about having someone who loves you enough to protect and guide you. Its about someone who gently puts you into your place and keeps you there.  its also about feeling secure in their love.  AND equally for the submissive at least its about being able to devote yourself and give yourself fully to One who understands that committment and gift and respects it. Its about being able to treat a Dominant like the King or Queen they are and show them deeply and continuously the love and respect you have for them. Now again this is just what hides in my heart you need to explore her feelings and Yours and communicate.

Now if she is asking for punishment. Find out why. Fnd out what different forms of punishment will mean to her and then make it clear that you will decide if, when and how she is punished but that she can trust that you will care about and meet her needs. But if soneone brats for a spanking say. Maybe make them write lines or an essay instead and when she is behaving a little better or is calmer then give her a maintenance spanking.  For me spankings are very healing and cleansing to my emotions and energy. AND yes i actually pray for them. They actually help me serve. But if i am bad on purpose maliciously, conciously get a spanking that is different and i should receive something else....

ok i am done will someone please help me get rid of this darm vanilla icon LOL!

(in reply to Merritt27)
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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/20/2006 5:53:44 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		Ok, I'm coming at this from the perspective of an s-type.

If I did something like that, it wouldn't be because I was asking to be punished. It would be a cry for guidance, in that I would be asking if he really -wanted- me to be his. The one time I've taken off my collar and willfully defied him, it was because I didn't think he wanted control. I thought he was doing it just to make me feel good, which killed the whole point.

I don't think that you should "break" her. I think you two need to sit down and -talk-. You need to ask her why she's behaving as she does, because it's showing you that she doesn't want to be yours. You need to determine -why- she is misbehaving and not just smack her around. Talking to your girl -isn't- being too soft on her. It's figuring out what's going on.

I agree that you need to lay ground rules. I think you should sit down and figure out exactly what you want and expect from her. Write it down if you have to. Realistically think about all the thinks you expect her to do, and the way you expect her to behave. Then sit her down and talk about it. Tell her this is what you want. Make sure she's willing to do that. Lay out clear consequences for breaking those rules. And stick to them.

Above all, though, talk.


_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/20/2006 10:38:36 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
Infinityatl,
Ignore LuckyAlbatross' advice at your peril.
Ditto.   M

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/21/2006 2:46:24 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Submissives are generally much more secure, responsive and obedient when their Dominant is in charge.  Apparent defiance etc, especially early in a D/s relationship, generally comes from insecurity, not enough trust and a fear that their Dom may not be able to control them.  So they test the boundaries to find out.... 
 
There's nothing sinister or devious about it; it's like a poker game and she's calling you.  She'll show you hers when you show yours!  You're the Dom, so you lead the way - *show* her who's in charge!
 
Right now, hiding collars etc suggests she's controlling you or at least your relationship dynamic.  If your response is gonna be to find "innovative ways to punish" her, then expect many sleepless nights and lotsa misery in between servicing *her* needs when she wants it.
 
ORRRR....!
 
You could try taking charge of her!  That is, you don't give her anything she wants until she's earnt it.  Spankings, floggings, bondage etc are NOT punishments to submissives; they're generally what they crave, depending on the individual.  Further, every sub I've known or owned is an attention junkie and even your frustration with her behaviour qualifies as attention.  So you start with some basic rules (like producing the damned collar for starters), and you reward or ignore her needs depending on how she performs.
 
It's not about hidden collars, punishment or even tricks.  It's totally about control and who has it.  Believe me, there's nothing a sub loves more than the security of knowing she's NOT the boss who can do as she pleases - and yours is hoping you're in charge! 
 
Batter up!
 
Focus.

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/21/2006 4:08:06 AM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Infinityatl

However, my slave is quite defiant at the moment, unfortunately, it's probably a testament to my beginner status. She has already hidden her collar along with a few other notable wrong doings.


This weekend, tie her on a very short leash, give her a chamber pot, water, and occasional food that she is not particuarly fond of. Keep her like that for 24 hours or so. Do not communicate. After the time is up, bring in a chair and a cup of tea. Sit about 6 feet from her, sip your tea, and ask her if she is ready to talk about behavior and expectations.

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/21/2006 4:23:54 AM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmmm, how to train a Pet?  Go to the PetsRus store and buy her one of those electric collars that the owner controls to train pets and shock the shiat out of her when she disobeys. It worked for Pavlov's dog and it can work for your slave.....Trust me!

Fastlane pulls out his remote and sends a shock to his pet.....just because!

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/21/2006 5:29:53 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
It's not about hidden collars, punishment or even tricks.  It's totally about control and who has it.  Believe me, there's nothing a sub loves more than the security of knowing she's NOT the boss who can do as she pleases - and yours is hoping you're in charge!  


Excatly,

You have said you can be her Master, now she wants yoiu to show you can.  First off,  take the damn collar away from her period.  Let her know when she acts like a slave and has earned her collar she can be adorned as one. 

Have the two of yoiu outlined your expectations for this part of the relationship?  Have you outlined any rules and guidelines for her?  She doesn't need to be "broken", what she wants is to for youi to actually be in charge.  You can sit and talk all yoiu want, she is not going to fess up why she is acting this way.  She is not misbehaving but rather giving you a test drive.  Can yoiu actually be the Master.

So far I would say your getting an F.  Decide what you want, and how you see this part of the relationship going.  You both need to talk about your goals and expectations and how you can develop them together.  First yoiu need to get her attention, and only you among us know the best way to do that for her.

Good luck

K

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: New Master + Defiant Slave.. Help? - 4/21/2006 6:14:15 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloudz
This weekend, tie her on a very short leash, give her a chamber pot, water, and occasional food that she is not particuarly fond of. Keep her like that for 24 hours or so. Do not communicate. After the time is up, bring in a chair and a cup of tea. Sit about 6 feet from her, sip your tea, and ask her if she is ready to talk about behavior and expectations.


Mmm mmm yum, wagging my tail on that.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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