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joether -> RE: The Limits of Reason (8/6/2010 7:20:35 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
For once, you have points that sort of imply a reasoning ability.
I can easily say the same for your rant. However, I dont go out of my way to sound arrogant.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
A few years ago, Kerry was branded as a flip-flopper. I can't remember the exact details but I'm sure some here can. It was tied to his votes though, maybe the infamous, "I voted for it before I voted against it" quote. I wondered then at the reasoning ability of those who couldn't grasp the concept of changing one's mind. I think a good part of America flip-flopped in the Bush years. I'm going to think that because he entered the fray after 9/11 with something like a 93 percent approval rating and ended it somewhere around 20 percent. You can have your own opinion.
That was just a few years ago? You can't remeber it? Here's a hint: Swift Boat Veterans. Mr. Kerry, was decried a 'flip flopper' because he would vote, based on the information at the time. Conservatives, railed him, at every chance, saying their guy: President George W. Bush (just finishing his 1st term), would never flip flop on issues. The idea, stemmed from the concept that a person who changes their views (meaning, they think about issues), is not a 'solid' person for the office. Unfortunately for conservatives, Mr. Bush was too-solid, in that there was no real plans for Iraq, AFTER, the invasion. In fact, the plans for Iraq, after the invasion, were so lame, as to have been thought up by a bunch of grade schoolers, on drugs. 23 seperate industries (hospitals, oil, history/museums, sanitation, water, etc) were largely all failures, run by people that didn't have the qualifications for the position. Only one of those 23 industries, was run by actual professionals. Take a wild guess which one? Hint: Its how the Bush family made its millions...
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
I wondered then at the reasoning ability of those who couldn't grasp the concept of changing one's mind.
That, is a liberal ideology, or some I'm told by conservatives. If The Republican party that controlled Congress, were able to grasp, the failed problems and lies (from the Bush Administration), regarding Iraq. Why did they never impeach him? They impeached a president, not to long before, for adultry. I guess lying to one's spouse, is more dastardly, then:
A) Lying to the country
B) Lying to the USA's allies
C) Spending $3 Trillion (all on the national debt...too)
D) Digging over 10,000 graves of our soldiers
E) Spending money on the 50,000+ veterans injuries (which I have no problem paying for)
F) Getting well over 100,000 Iraq civilian deaths
G) Allowing torture to be considered 'ok' in America
Why wasn't Mr. Bush impeached for any of these? Or all of them? Because, conservatives, couldn't dare....flip flop! And conservatives in this country, have a hard enough time, accepting responsiblity for giving us Mr. Bush....let along Mrs Palin!
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
Having said that, there is minimal reasoning that takes place on these boards. What, by far, arises is mouths like spigots that spew tripe from either left or right depending on which particular trough of shit they feed. Virtually every discussion has these traits involved. A) Posters refuse to actually debate the issue at hand, but rather dredge through the entire history of the other side to find as many little shitty things as possible they can blame them for. or B) if liberal or conservative poster is pushed into a corner he or she cannot defend, he or she will by default offer the reasoning that the other side did something similar - which is a round about way of saying, fuck it, you did it, now we're going to do it and what's lost is the actuality of right and wrong. In other words, posters will defend a wrong with a wrong. And let's not forget C. If that defense is unsuccessful, poster will scream racism. Actually, C is more of a constant and zealous search for any tidbit that can be branded as such, and if not found, invented.
Sorry, I dont buy that, Grade "A", Bull Droppings. If what you say is true, then you are immune to the very stuff you say EVERYONE else does (as you accuse). If that too is true, then your not human. The real truth is, you do the exact same crap. Oh, you do 'flower up' your words, but I see right through the crap your shovelling (its called 'critical thinking'). Your entire post (which I'm slowly going down, line by line), doesn't even talk about the topic. In fact, your post is one large, political rant, to refute what I said. But you don't directly challenge anything. Nor add your own insight to the original topic. What's wrong? Can't you think for yourself? Let me quote the passage you gave:
quote:
What, by far, arises is mouths like spigots that spew tripe from either left or right depending on which particular trough of shit they feed.
You just add salt and pepper, to flavor your crap up. Big deal...
I use politics in my posting, because: A) The thread is Politics & Religion and B) Its easier to explain with real world concepts. Your entire rant, is one large attack on liberals, and having nothing to do with the topic of the discussion.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
Shit eaters are pretty far down on my list of people with whom rational discourse is possible.
Here is the real difference between you and me: I try to give people a level of respect. For a while, I gave willbeurdaddy and pahunkboy, the benefit of the doubt, that they had their 'off days' of stupidity. Willbeurdaddy, can sometimes have....(snarl/growl) a good point. Pahunkboy, just gives us the latest and greatest of conspiracies striking the presses of the conservative political sphere.
Even if a person's political view point isn't very well developed, they are not a hopeless case. I'm sure willbeurdaddy and pahunkboy, have other areas of interest, were they perform much more proficiently (ok you two...keep it clean!). Politics just isn't their strong suit. I don't think it would be right, to exclude them from such a topic either. I listed some of the problems in my post. Those have to be overcome, by them. Discussions would be stronger, more intelligent, and may even find (gasp), common ground.
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
The truly sad fact of it is, there are resolutions to the problems that face both the country and society.
Spoken like a true egomaniac! Now, most people would agree, that there are solutions, and some of those solutions would need to be deals between the two parties of thought. Democrats get something, and Republicans get something....of equal or near equal worth. You, however, believe, you know what should be done, and all of us, should bow down and give it to you on a gold platter. This country is a Democratic Republic; or, per conservative's thoughts, a Constitutitional Republic. It is NOT a dictatorship. We elect others, to repesent us, to the nation and the world. Those people only hold so much power.
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
What will come forth however, is going to depend on which party, which set of zealots have power.
If this is true, then you are indeed a true, modern day conservative; and hence, no better then those whose "...trough of shit they feed" from. The modern conservative, being a selfish individual, actually believes, EVERYONE ELSE, is just as selfish as they themselves. As such, the belief holds, the only ones who have power, do not trade, or bargain with others, but take as wished. A true barbarian mentality. Unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the rest of us), that is not true. The ones that argue 'might is right', typically lose their battle against a tactician. It *IS*, the reason the Roman Legion, destroyed, tens of thousands of barbarians.
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
Therein lies the problem because this country is effectively split in half when it comes to zealots.
Zealots, are to religion, what lobbyists are to the US goverment. You actually believe, that nothing can get done, unless one side simply rules over the other, with an iron fist. You are actually promoting a dictatorship in the USA. Do you understand? We tried that, it was called the Bush Administration and Republicans controlling Congress. What actually got done in those six years? Not a whole lot that helped the USA out, apprently. And we are feeling, and will feel, many of the effects for years to come.
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
That means neither side is going to be happy.
I'm happy with what the President has done. I agree with about 85% of the things he has done. The remainder are issues, you do not seem to hold the capacity to understand. I'd say so, if I honestly thought you had the ability to be a mature. Health care to help protect those Americans, who can not get health insurance. Financial reform to keep others from preying on investors over bogus and unethical business practices (like Goldman Sachs and the Deriviative scandal). I even think Mr. Obama has the right ideas for Immigration Reform. But THOSE, are each, a different topic/thread, from the current topic/thread.
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
We aren't fighting this war with guns or bullets.
Yeah, cus that hasn't been suggested....
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
And, it is a war between the leftmost fringe and the rightmost fringe.
Yes, another, modern day, conservative 'thought' process. "You are either with us, or against us!" No mention of moderates in your thought process. That would simple complicated your arguements. In fact, thanks to Moderates, we don't have Sarah Palin as our Vice President. Further proof, there is a merciful God!
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ORIGINAL: Strangerthan
Where most debates here end up is figuring out what's wrong with another's position rather than what will work with both. That's compromise, something that has been lost and honestly, may never be reclaimed.
Conservatives? Compromising on things? Sorry, that is just laughable, given the modern day, conservative philosophy. If conservatives actually compromised on issues, why is it, NONE of them voted on Health Care? Or on Financial Reform? Or on Miss Kagan's nomination? But did vote for, the Iraq war, and every year of spending on it? Those 'fiscal responsible' conservatives, who voted along party lines, and NOT, their own philosophy? Sorry, but they lost the arguement on the bad economy.
Finally Strangerthan, what does ANY of your rant, have to do with the topic? Or were you just trying to refute my arguements with a long, mindless rant? Since, you didn't try to argue any one point I had. Nor, offer up a point of view, different from the same crap politics, you say, everyone, BUT YOU, eats from. Sorry, but you eat from it TOO! Why don't you try, sticking to the topic, make one or more arguements WITH supporting evidence. That is, after all, what a critical thinker would do.
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