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RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 4:27:43 AM   
foxnotinsox


Posts: 84
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: eastern Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		 
quote:

maybe this is dumb, but on the subject of subs with problems...  is that okay?  Is it wrong of me to seek a dom who will take control of my life when I feel out of control and miserable?  is it somehow wrong to want a dom to tell me what do do if I hate making decisions?  I've heard people say that you should be well to be in this lifestyle... but what if my cravings for this are why I'm not so well?


I'm of the belief that there are no dumb questions ... only dumb answers ...
But this is not going to be one of those posts.

I am thinking many things here, for I feel your anguish. I also have concern ... for both yourself and your potential partner .. potential to develop a co-dependent relationship, him not being able to deal with you, and/or you not being able to deal with yourself.

And I think that is the crux. It sounds like you are having a rough time dealing with yourself. Yes, it's very difficult to make a decision sometimes .. but you did =) make the decision to write the opening post. I don't think that it's simply a feeling of being out of control .. but that perhaps this is a symptom of something larger, something that should be dealt with outside of the BDSM community.

Hmmm which is not to say that you cannot continue to be involved with BDSM if that is what you need and desire. Just that I don't think it is fair to dump all one's responsibilities or not to seek professional help when there is something that is not right.

Say you were able to find a partner who took over everthing, including dishing out the pain. This is, in a way, self-medication of an underlying condition. Sure, you get those wonderful endorphin highs, somebody to make choices .. but this can actually make the problem worse .. as you are no longer coping with the underlying problem, somebody else is. So a little bit down the road, he decides he doesn't want this anymore, where does this leave you? Not only will you have the "I'm breaking up blues" but you will now have to cope with your underlying issue .. probably a crash, more feelings to hurt yourself, and maybe even suicide.

Whatever it is .. it should be dealt with outside of BDSM, preferably with a professional who is BDSM-friendly. Whether it be depression, OCD, PTSD, ADD, bipolar, whatever .. speak with your doctor about both medication and behavioural modification. The medication will help you cope, the behavioural will help you to work through the issue.

For instance, why do you hate making decisions? Is it because....
*you are afraid of making the wrong choice
*you will be chastised/judged for your choice
*you are worried something better might come along
*you don't feel ready or that you have all the info

Whatever =) ....
but remember, if you decide NOT to make a choice,
you still have made a decision

Just like when you are feeling out of control remember what you do have control of.

Hmmmmm so the upshot of this ramble is that:
Yes, it's OK to have a problem
No, it's not OK to expect a partner to deal with it
Yes, speak with somebody professional
No, do not remove yourself from BDSM
Yes, it's OK to crave pain
No, it's not OK to crave pain to self-medicate

I hope this all made sense ... enjoy the day!

< Message edited by foxnotinsox -- 4/20/2006 4:33:14 AM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 5:58:13 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: foxnotinsox
I'm of the belief that there are no dumb questions ... only dumb answers ...
But this is not going to be one of those posts.

Oh there's plenty of dumb questions.  "How do you know you're bi if you haven't been with a girl yet?" is one I used to get a lot.  That's a very stupid question.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to foxnotinsox)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 6:28:59 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazypatient
Is it wrong of me to seek a dom who will take control of my life when I feel out of control and miserable?  is it somehow wrong to want a dom to tell me what to do if I hate making decisions?  What if my cravings for this are why I'm not so well?  what if I'm a girl who just can't survive making her own decisions? I have a history of self-injury..  Do any of you call it wrong to crave pain?  for pain to make things feel better? 

I have edited your post some, to better see its essence.

The difference between the gods and normal human beings is that a god is crazy in one way or another.

The human mind is a seamless composite of three entities, three lovers: soul, ratio and ego.

Many - hopefully most - subs have a very small ego. They are thus not normal, but crazy. As such, according to my interpretation, they are reflections of the Goddess of love, who is also the Goddess of slaves.
As you call yourself crazy, you may be the reflection of this Goddess; a larva if you will, desiring transformation into this Goddess.

To be a slave is to be an extension, an enhancement of another person.

To become an incarnation of this Goddess, the ego of the sub has to die. The only known way for a reflection of this Goddess to transform into an incarnation of her, i.e. by killing her ego, is through torture.

Perhaps I am seeing this all wrong and the other responders are more in the right.

It is my impression that your yearning for pain is instinctive and that its purpose is for you to create a situation where you are able to transform into an incarnation of the Goddess through torture: i.e. you were born to become an incarnation of the Goddess and now you are seeking this destiny.

The death of the ego can only occur when the sub feels safe. In unsafe situations the ego may be reborn, repeatedly.
The death of the ego also increases the power of the surviving parts of the mind: soul (feeling) and ratio (sensibility and intelligence). After approximately five years the incarnation of the Goddess - the slave - develops a new kind of independence.

It is thought that in case of a rebirth of the ego that this ego requires torture to be killed again. This is not necessarily so, though. A homosexual friend of mine - unfortunately murdered by his husband several years ago - discovered during a moment of rage that he could kill his reborn ego (a second personality) mentally himself - smothering or suffocating it. His ego desired this killing and he killed it for about two years - always on request and with permission, and as an expression of love - every day. Then suddenly and stunningly his ego was not reborn any more: he had lost his other self and lover permanently. He mourned this loss.

Thus it may be that your affinity for SM and pain is merely that: an affinity. Torture to you may not be an end in itself, but merely a means to a purpose: becoming the Goddess.

Therapy will not be able to help you in that case.
There are people who desire to torture others, often they are extremely evil and extremely intelligent. My friend fell into the hands of one such extremely evil person. However, there are also less evil (and less intelligent) and even some good people who may transform a reflection of the Goddess into an incarnation of the Goddess.

If you are such a devine larva, you may want to check out http://www.bornslaves.com/

It is a homosexual website, but the principles are the same as for heterosexuals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazypatient

I dont know that my words have correctly reflected my meaning...

Perhaps not. Perhaps we should have asked more specific questions, as you encouraged us to do. These are our suggestions. Please inform us if any of them fit you. Or if not, tell us more about yourself.

< Message edited by Rule -- 4/20/2006 6:35:25 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 6:47:04 AM   
mixielicous


Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VvShadowspawnvV

A slightly different view from most of the other posts here...

i, too, have a history of depression, and have, at times, hurt myself. For me, it was a way to EXternalize INternal pain, and thus make it easier to deal with. While i do not claim that this is quote/unquote "healthy", i DO know that it is not uncommon. Since i have been with Master, i have not been depressed. Sad, yes... upset, yes... there is a difference. By giving myself to Him, i am no longer in control of my own emotions. i am NOT saying i never have feelings He does not approve of- i'm human. What i am saying is: i am not allowed the luxury of wallowing in them, and helping them feed on themselves. i snap out of it or get spanked out of it. Since the spanking externalizes it (ah ha!), i get over it. And since Master is a good, sane, decent man... it is safer for Him to "hurt" me than it may be for me to hurt myself. On another note- since i am a slave at heart, my self-esteem depends, to a large degree, on His opinion of me. This might be disastrous with the wrong man, i know... but, again- He is a good man, who loves me, so it helps.

i think the point of this ramble is that, while finding a man, any man, to order your life about will probably not "cure" you... finding the RIGHT man to help you order your life and find your place will probably not hurt. Finding one's place, knowing one's place, and BEING OKAY WITH one's place- despite its social-unacceptedness- is a good step towards a girl's emotional health, in my opinion.

becca


this is probably the response i can relate most with. like many, many people out there, i used to resort to SI. i dont exactly know how i got over it [i think it was when i became i a pothead, i look back and see the two very close together] sometimes i get the urges still but i do not indulge in them b/c i do not desire to dissapoint D.

i as well, cannot make decisions for the life of me. i remember while W/we were still vanilla, went out to dinner and i still had not decided what i wanted. i had a few choices but could not narrow it down - the waitress came over and He ordered for me before i could say that i did not yet know. that was the best night of my life [one of].

while i did not seek Him out to solve my problems for me, that seems to be the way it has gone, naturally. Be it pain while i am in misery, a decision i cannot make, or an affirmation to myself.

i do not reccomend searching for a Dom to complete you, but if you can recognize your own problems, i dont see any reason why one couldnt help you work through them. if it doesnt work though, you cannot blame him.

i dont know if this is going to help, its just me relating.

(in reply to VvShadowspawnvV)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 6:54:37 AM   
unquenchable


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazypatient

maybe this is dumb, but on the subject of subs with problems...  is that okay?  Is it wrong of me to seek a dom who will take control of my life when I feel out of control and miserable?  is it somehow wrong to want a dom to tell me what do do if I hate making decisions?  I've heard people say that you should be well to be in this lifestyle... but what if my cravings for this are why I'm not so well?  what if I'm a girl who just can't survive making her own decisions?  Is that wrong?  As some of you know, I have a history of self-injury..  does that eliminate me from that world?  or include me more?  do any of you call it wrong to crave pain?  for pain to make things feel better?  I'm not sure if I've expressed myself correctly... if anyone needs clarification, please ask, because I dont know that my words have correctly reflected my meaning...


Hi there,

i do not know you at all but will try to convey to you my thoughts on all of this. 

Yes, i believe it is wrong for you to knowingly seek a relationship solely for the benefit to 'be fixed'.  To expect a Dom to control you when you cannot control your own life.     If you are misserable, how can you make a rational decision on something that will maybe effect your life forever.

Craving pain is ok if  craving it for the right reasons.  To believe pain is something that is a cureall is not ok.  Take the time needed to find why you are like this and then seek the help you need to get better.

Not sure this helps at all but hope maybe even one thing stands out for you.

unquenchable




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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 7:01:54 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Too late. I just looked at her profile. About twelve hours after posting the question she decided to move in with a master she met on collarme.com. She must have been very desperate. I hope he is a good person.

(in reply to unquenchable)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 7:10:52 AM   
unquenchable


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline 		Or that she is telling a story maybe?


(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 7:17:30 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		It sounded a bit like a story or a "what if" to me too.  But she's only 21.

(in reply to unquenchable)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 7:55:35 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		It may be storytelling, but for some reason this whole scenario is very scary.  One can only hope it was a story and not some young in need sub stumbled down the wrong road.

< Message edited by MHOO314 -- 4/20/2006 8:13:59 AM >

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SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 8:21:58 AM   
Ceyx


Posts: 89
Joined: 8/23/2005
Status: offline 		I agree fundamentally with all those who have said that D/s should not be therapy by other means; that if there are underlying psychological issues, it is risky at best to expect a Dominant to resolve them for you. A responsible Dominant won't pretend to psychiatric expertise that he or she doesn't possess, and if you do find one who says, 'Sure, I'll make everything better!' then that in itself may be a red flag.

That said, if you're aware of your issues and willing to work on them, then a Dominant can provide a framework and a degree of motivation in helping you to realize your goals for yourself. D/s won't absolve you of responsibility for facing these things in yourself, but the structure of control, the mutual pleasure in good service, may allow a Dominant who cares for you and shares your vision to help you make some changes. A Dominant can't 'fix', you, and probably shouldn't be allowed to try. In the right context, however, and with whatever professional help might be required, he or she can support you and therefore make your own work easier for you.

(in reply to crazypatient)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 8:49:08 AM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I gave up self-injury shortly after I entered my D/s relationship. In the end, I don't feel that D/s helped my depressive states or my ability to make decisions.

In the end, you need to be able to make your own decisions. When we rely on other people, we become dependent on them, and that can lead to resenting the other person, or worse, being completely taken advantage of.

To be blunt, D/s isn't a bandaid.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to crazypatient)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 1:10:10 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		I have no problem with dependent relationships though they may need to me mutually dependent. I think that it is ok to use what ever is at our disposal to help us work through our problems and D/s is a better vehicle than most. I believe that there are a lot of people who will not put forth the effort for themselves but they will do it for someone else, so in that case a submissive could find themselves doing self improvement for their dom that they would never do for themselves. I see no problem with this, it is mutually beneficial as the sub improves themselves and the Dom gets a happier healthier person to spend their time with. Lets go one step further, and say that the sub does not know what to do for themselves but the dom either knows or has a good idea of what the problem is. In this case the dom gives the sub directions which the sub agrees to follow, and if the sub after a time realizes that things are better for he or she when they allow the dom to take charge and direct. They very well may  want to continue the arrangement. Again, what it the problem? It is a mutually beneficial relationship, everybody wins. Outsiders might be morally opposed to how these two  people choose to live, or  they may not understand how this relationship could be a healthy relationship. Screw them, they can use their great ideas or moral code on their own lives. We all have to live our own lives, and if we give up the right to decide for ourselves what is better and what is worse for ourselves we are no where.

As for therapy, it is the only socially recongnized place to get help now that the clergy have pretty much been eliminated (just 20 years ago it was either-or). But you know what, therapy often does not work, it is expensive, and a lot of therapists are not very good at their jobs. Everyone socially responsible  is going to say that if one has a problem they should seek therapy. It is good, sound advise. However, therapy is not the only way to work through problems, it is not like it is a forgone conclusion that if one passes on therapy then they are screwwed for life, have no chance at improving thier lives. Use what works. If your sexual kink is helping in others areas in your life, great.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 4/20/2006 1:12:50 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 1:34:40 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		This is just as an fyi for those interested    http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe09.html    

(in reply to ICGsteve)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 1:44:56 PM   
enthralled


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
........... Considering that, looking to a Dom to provide the pain is actually a very sensible conclusion for my kind of people.  As much as those in the bdsm community rail against the preconceptions that 'vanilla' people have about the things we do, some people in the community itself rail against the majority that think escapism through sensory overload (I.E. pain) isn't safe.  It's what the person does with the pain that they are given that matters, not the motivation behind it.  If you want to just wallow in the pain an dmisery, then yes, you should probably avoid having a dom/top for a few different reasons.  If you use it to clear your mind, and focus your will to overcome the obstacles that are hindering you, then a dom/top that understands that could be beneficial.

Perhaps my view on this whole concept is skewed because of my own prediliction for this exact type of escapism, even if I prefer it to be self induced, so take what I wrote with a grain or two of salt.

- Dustyn



(posting for future reference since she has apparently 'moved on')
Hi Dustyn,
I wasnt so much concerned about her self-injury as the statements she made concerning WHAT she sought out of the relationship:
quote:

wrong of me to seek a dom who will take control of my life when I feel out of control and miserable?  is it somehow wrong to want a dom to tell me what do do if I hate making decisions?  I've heard people say that you should be well to be in this lifestyle... but what if my cravings for this are why I'm not so well?  what if I'm a girl who just can't survive making her own decisions?  Is that wrong?


...... from what she describes here, it sounds as if she wants a god, someone to fix everything FOR her. I'm afraid that with this mentality, AND her apparent emotional status, that she's opening herself up for an abusive situation thinking that having a 'Dom' will fix all her problems.
As I stated in my initial post to her, if she doesnt have the ability to make decisions, then how can she possibly care for a Master or his house?
In my opinion, this is a predators dream!

Respectfully,
enthralled

_____________________________

A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 1:57:11 PM   
VvShadowspawnvV


Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		oy, instant Master.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 4:12:20 PM   
MasterR001


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds reasonable to me.     

(in reply to crazypatient)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 9:12:15 PM   
crazypatient


Posts: 31
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

I would like the OP to think about one part of what she said.   "do any of you call it wrong to crave pain?  for pain to make things feel better? "

There are different reasons for craving pain.  For many on here it is sensual or simply the stimulation they need to become sexually excited.  What your statement seems to be saying is that in the same way that people who self harm often have a rush of relief after the act, you expect that bdsm will bring the same rush of relief as self injury.

For some people it does have that effect, it releases pent up emotions and they feel cleansed.  However it does place the Dom/me in the position of untrained therapist to heal emotional problems that are better healed in other ways. I'll echo the sentiment that you would probably be happier if you learn to cope with some of your internal pain before seeking a D/s relationship.



I dont think I'm saying so much either, than the fact that both are huge parts of me.  I've hurt myself for a long time, and I've had fantasies of BDSM for a long time...  for both, pretty much for longer than I even considered sex about pleasure at all.  and then discovering that, I started to look into this world.  and have become enthralled.

(in reply to sharainks)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 9:16:02 PM   
crazypatient


Posts: 31
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Becca, I think maybe that's what I'm on here for... but I dont know.

(in reply to VvShadowspawnvV)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 9:18:05 PM   
crazypatient


Posts: 31
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

As in are you seeking a Dom to indulge the pain, or do you want one to help you get past it and control your behaviour.


both!

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Maybe this is a stupid question... - 4/20/2006 9:28:31 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		"I've had fantasies of BDSM for a long time"

Not to rain on the parade, but there is a disgusting trend of dreams and reality rarely ever meshing properly. BDSM can fill a great number of vacant roles in someone's life, but it, like anything else, should never be used as a means of escpaing the problems in your life, CP.  That said, the rest of my opinions are already stated.

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to crazypatient)
Profile   Post #: 40
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