RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/10/2010 10:02:58 PM)

Just made me wonder if you wont fight for yourself, why would you fight for a child?

My child would often remind his grandparents and my brothers of his asthma and to put out the "death sticks". Why? Because he heard me say the same thing and it gave him confidence knowing his mom.. who smoked... would say that.

You didnt say anything because you liked him. Had nothing to do with you being an adult or not. The same with kids. They typically dont say anything for basically the same reasons. Or they fear reprisal. Its up to the adults to change their worlds. By saying nothing, you are saying the world is just fine.




Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/10/2010 10:09:03 PM)

There are  just  things I wouldn't fight for, for  myself for or would put up with,  but would gladly go down in a blaze of teeth fur and blood for a child.

I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Just made me wonder if you wont fight for yourself, why would you fight for a child?


You didnt say anything because you liked him. Had nothing to do with you being an adult or not. The same with kids. They typically dont say anything for basically the same reasons. Or they fear reprisal. Its up to the adults to change their worlds. By saying nothing, you are saying the world is just fine.




tazzygirl -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/10/2010 10:11:54 PM)

I guess my point is that children watch, and react, based upon the adults in their lives. Dont fight for yourself... why should children be expected to do the same? We, as adults, have to lead by example.

ETA

Please, dont take my comments as a personal criticism. They arent intended as such.




Aneirin -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 6:05:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

Not to be rude to those who smoke, but every one I know who smokes says they don't stink, them and their belongings are always clean and fresh, and I am like huh, yeah, then why can I smell you clear from down the shopping isle, or the minute you walk into my presence.

Smoke on clothing and hair and people just flat out stinks, and I used to ride in a cab to therapy, since the program payed for me to be picked up and dropped off, and the cab driver would light up the minute I was in the car and on the road, and I'd get home and my dad would tell me PHEW YOU STINK LIKE AN ASHTRAY.

And that always pissed me off because I  had JUST had a bath and put clean clothing on that day and the cabbies smoking made me need another bath and to re wash my hair and a change of clothing after just 20 minutes in his cab with him smoking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Have you ever been trapped in a car with a smoker as a nonsmoker? I have, that was my childhood, and it is WRONG to smoke in an enclosed area... shit, I can smell people stopped at lights smoking in the car next to me!



The trouble with what our olfactory system picks up, one tends not to be able to smell themselves or their enviroment, if the smell that is around them is a common occurence, our systems just sign it off as normal. But before people go on about how smokers stink, perhaps they need to examine themselves and what smells pervade from them, do they themselves smell and is that smell offensive to others. Of such smells, they include body odour, which can be very off putting, deoderants and perfumes that mask such smells, some of them are just not suited to the personage they are being applied to. The other thing about skin is that it is an important organ for the elimination of toxins out of the body and what one may eat, has a habit of being exuded from the skin as well as more familiar routes of expulsion. The result being everyone stinks au natrel and even more so with the chemicals we apply to ourselves to hide what we believe is offensive smells from ourselves.

But even as a smoker, certain odours ich me and they include some female and male perfumes, Anais Anais and Jupe, they actually bring a nauseaous feeling to myself when I am unlucky enough to detect the odours in society. Another smell that makes me retch, is that baby smell, stale milk and the sweet perfume of the baby wipe mixed together.

So if people choose to have the smell of burning plant that tobacco is around them they have to be allowed that, as other human smells are just as offensive to others and of the modern chemical smells that are applied  to hide the natrual smell, just exactly what is it, what chemicals are present, any of them dangerous perchance ?




sirsholly -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 6:16:37 AM)

quote:

Smoking has no relation to being able to breed,
smoking has a great deal to do with fertility

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/pregnancyandchildbirth/205088.html

A recent publication in the American Journal of Epidemiology showed that underweight and obese smokers were more likely to take longer than nine and a half months of unprotected intercourse to conceive than underweight and obese non-smokers. It is thought to take around three months for improvement to be maximised in relation to fertility after stopping smoking.




Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 8:00:32 AM)

Yes, that is true, We non smokers may smell offensive to  others out there, just as surely. I personally don't enjoy smelling perfume and cologns that just overwhealm the person, and you can still smell them some time after a person has walked by, or has long since sprayed them and been done with them,  as much as other smells, and have gagged a few times from the noxious * to me* perfume my mom  spurts on herself , thinking it smells good lol. It does smell good, but it's strong, and  you don't need more than a tiny bit of it, maybe sprayed in the air and walk through it or something, since when sprayed it smells VERY concentrated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin



The trouble with what our olfactory system picks up, one tends not to be able to smell themselves or their enviroment, if the smell that is around them is a common occurence, our systems just sign it off as normal. But before people go on about how smokers stink, perhaps they need to examine themselves and what smells pervade from them, do they themselves smell and is that smell offensive to others. Of such smells, they include body odour, which can be very off putting, deoderants and perfumes that mask such smells, some of them are just not suited to the personage they are being applied to. The other thing about skin is that it is an important organ for the elimination of toxins out of the body and what one may eat, has a habit of being exuded from the skin as well as more familiar routes of expulsion. The result being everyone stinks au natrel and even more so with the chemicals we apply to ourselves to hide what we believe is offensive smells from ourselves.

But even as a smoker, certain odours ich me and they include some female and male perfumes, Anais Anais and Jupe, they actually bring a nauseaous feeling to myself when I am unlucky enough to detect the odours in society. Another smell that makes me retch, is that baby smell, stale milk and the sweet perfume of the baby wipe mixed together.

So if people choose to have the smell of burning plant that tobacco is around them they have to be allowed that, as other human smells are just as offensive to others and of the modern chemical smells that are applied  to hide the natrual smell, just exactly what is it, what chemicals are present, any of them dangerous perchance ?





Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 8:06:49 AM)

I already clarified what I meant by no relation to breeding, once.

I g uess I need to do it again, . Saying that people who smoke should not be able to breed, as in  with saying that statement it's such a disgusting habit you don't deserve kids, has no relation to being able to breed. Disgusting habit in someone's eyes or no, that doesn't make people unfit to breed because you * generic you, not you Holly,* think a smoker is gross and don't deserve kids.

In that meaning it is true, then, that smoking has no relationship to being able to breed.

Now if I meant it didn't cause ED, or low sperm counts or health related problems with breeding, then yes, smoking would lead to issues with the mechanics involved with breeding.
.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Smoking has no relation to being able to breed,
smoking has a great deal to do with fertility

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/pregnancyandchildbirth/205088.html






StrangerThan -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 8:23:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I already clarified what I meant by no relation to breeding, once.

I g uess I need to do it again, . Saying that people who smoke should not be able to breed, as in  with saying that statement it's such a disgusting habit you don't deserve kids, has no relation to being able to breed. Disgusting habit in someone's eyes or no, that doesn't make people unfit to breed because you * generic you, not you Holly,* think a smoker is gross and don't deserve kids.

In that meaning it is true, then, that smoking has no relationship to being able to breed.

Now if I meant it didn't cause ED, or low sperm counts or health related problems with breeding, then yes, smoking would lead to issues with the mechanics involved with breeding.
.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Smoking has no relation to being able to breed,
smoking has a great deal to do with fertility

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/pregnancyandchildbirth/205088.html





I'm not going to defend smoking anywhere. If I'm going to defend anything, it is the fact that half the shit wrong with the world today is people who refuse to mind their own business. But this is getting ridiculous.

Want some examples of people who shouldn't be allowed to breed? How about those who can't control their weight or eating habits and by default subject a child to a lifetime of obesity? How about those whose genetic makeup pose a high risk for obesity, cancer, heart disease? How about those who flit along the border of reason and sanity? How about those who are just fucking assholes in the first place?

How about people who watch tv a 100 hours a week and ensure a wasteland of intelligent thought for their progeny? How about those who practice deviant lifestyles? Yeah how about that one.

How about people who are as effective as parents as George Bush was at running a country? How about people who raise asshole children?

How about people who can't afford them? How about people who live in poverty? How about people who use rights given to them in the Constitution to limit the rights of others and thereby demonstrate their willingness to define civil rights based upon what they like and what they don't.

How about religious zealots?

How about far left and far right?

I mean hell, if we're going to start basing breeding rights on things that offend, I can probably neuter half the country.




taleon -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 8:30:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

As to smoking, there is too much conflicting information, all these ills attributed to smoking, yet it is still permitted, if it was all that bad, then the authorities feering human stupidity and mal education should plain and simple withdraw the product from sale,or at least come clean about the truth of the matter, so even the slow witted might be able to understand the de facto information and make their corrections accordingly.


Why do governments allow smoking? Well, some of them are increasingly busy banning it from public life. Around here, you can't smoke in restaurants or bars anymore. You can't smoke on train station platforms outside of designated areas. So, they allow it, but only sparingly it seems.

Why is it still on sale then? Perhaps the government doesn't want to miss the revenue stream from those increased taxes on cigarettes. Perhaps because a ban will cost them a lot of votes. Or perhaps they understand prohibition wouldn't work anyway and would take a lot of resources to enforce. Or perhaps of some other reason.

But don't be confused. By smoking you take a health risk. It's like playing Russian roulette. It might not kill you, but chances are, if you play it long enough, it most likely will. You might want to read this Wikipedia article, if you want to see a summary of the studies done on the topic, and the effects smoking has on your body: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco.




tazzygirl -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 8:33:49 AM)

Eating red meat too much is a health risk.

Not eating meat at all is a health risk.

Drinking too much alcohol/pop/even water is a health risk.

Taking too much vitamins is a health risk.

Not enough bran in your diet.. health risk... too much bran... health risk.

No matter what we do, its a health risk to someone.




pahunkboy -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 8:38:58 AM)

Ok-  some very good replies on this thread and I thank you all.  (keep em coming)


:-)

I tend to think existing laws would cover this type of thing.  




taleon -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 8:49:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Eating red meat too much is a health risk.

Not eating meat at all is a health risk.

Drinking too much alcohol/pop/even water is a health risk.

Taking too much vitamins is a health risk.

Not enough bran in your diet.. health risk... too much bran... health risk.


Sure, but obviously some things are more risky than others. Much of life, if not everything, is about chances. And, as adults, we are (in varying degrees per country) free to take the risks we dare to take.

But it does help a lot when we are made aware of those risks. And posting that there is too much conflicting information on the health effects of smoking surely isn't helping. Really, there isn't any conflict. It's pretty cut-and-dry.




Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 9:29:39 AM)

I don't pay any attention to politics so I have no clue about how Bush ran the country.  Nor what far left and far right means.

But I agree that people who can't afford kids have no business having them.

Religious zelots, in my opinion are not so bad they don't deserve kids, in most cases, they're not doing anything so horribly wrong as to not deserve kids. If they are, then yeah, no kids for them.



quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan


How about people who are as effective as parents as George Bush was at running a country? How about people who raise asshole children?

How about people who can't afford them? How about people who live in poverty? How about people who use rights given to them in the Constitution to limit the rights of others and thereby demonstrate their willingness to define civil rights based upon what they like and what they don't.

How about religious zealots?

How about far left and far right?

I mean hell, if we're going to start basing breeding rights on things that offend, I can probably neuter half the country.





Moonhead -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 9:32:40 AM)

In this forum "far left" seems to mean "not Republican".
(No, I don't get that one, either.)




tazzygirl -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 9:46:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: taleon

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Eating red meat too much is a health risk.

Not eating meat at all is a health risk.

Drinking too much alcohol/pop/even water is a health risk.

Taking too much vitamins is a health risk.

Not enough bran in your diet.. health risk... too much bran... health risk.


Sure, but obviously some things are more risky than others. Much of life, if not everything, is about chances. And, as adults, we are (in varying degrees per country) free to take the risks we dare to take.

But it does help a lot when we are made aware of those risks. And posting that there is too much conflicting information on the health effects of smoking surely isn't helping. Really, there isn't any conflict. It's pretty cut-and-dry.


Nor is demonizing a generation that was lied too about the additives included in cigarettes in order to perpetuate the addictions. No one learns how to smoke over night... they sure wont learn how to quit over night either.




taleon -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 10:06:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Nor is demonizing a generation that was lied too about the additives included in cigarettes in order to perpetuate the addictions. No one learns how to smoke over night... they sure wont learn how to quit over night either.

True. And I hope that I didn't give you the impression I was out on a crusade against smokers. If anything, I just want to point out that there is virtually no reason to doubt the negative effects of smoking. It's up to them to draw their own conclusions from that, and make the decision to quit... or not.




tazzygirl -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 11:22:44 AM)

Decisions are easy.




taleon -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 11:34:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Decisions are easy.

I understand that quitting any addiction is difficult, very difficult. But it is not impossible.




tazzygirl -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 11:40:55 AM)

quote:

Scientists studying how the brain reacts to smoking are finding more evidence that nicotine and heroin have similar effects. This ScienCentral News video reports that researchers at University of Chicago have found a part of the brain that responds to smoking and heroin in much the same way.


http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218393090

This is what a smoker is fighting. Some can quit with the first attempt. Others can take years of trial and failure before finally being able to walk away from the addiction.

If you have never smoked, you have no idea how hard that addiction is to break. And the industry that supposedly is trying to help makes it even more difficult with nicotine replacements and anti-depressants that have worse side effects.




Moonhead -> RE: Smoking in car declared 'child abuse' in UK... (8/11/2010 11:46:46 AM)

It's one of the very hardest addictions to kick for economic factors as well: a packet of fags is a lot cheaper than a bottle of scotch, after all.




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