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RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 7:54:13 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

They are NOT providing jobs. Unemployment is at a record high and it isn't going down any time soon.


So the money the Defense Dept is shoving towards Halliburton doesn't create jobs? HUH?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 7:57:38 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That's the problem. The govt spends all of the money but it does nothing to put anyone to work. Unless you have a job with the govt. Don't believe the 9.5 % unemployment figure. It is actually closer to 17 %..


You aren't making sense. If the gov't spends the money it goes to someone. That someone probably spends the money on other things in the economy which provide jobs and then other jobs and so on and so on.....Or are you saying someone keeps all the money. Can you be clearer on this for me?


Even Obama's (now former) economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


That wasn't what he was saying...

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:19:42 AM   
AsmodaisSin


Posts: 320
Joined: 7/28/2009
From: NOVA
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Look, in a hypothetical world, I would be president for the day, and in this hypothetical scenario, I would be able to do things instantly during that day.  What would I do?

  1. Get rid of the Homeland Security Department by merging it with the other government agencies that do a lot of the same thing.  Jobs would be left mostly in tact.  This bit of government is just...foolish. 
  2. Privatize Social Security. 
  3. Lower taxes. 
  4. Change the age of majority to 18.
  5. Make consenting adult marriages legal.  This will shut NAMBLA up, because that entire organization is a plague on society.  This excludes goats and any other animals.  Sorry dolphin woman.  Your marriage is null and void. 
  6. I would repeal the entire Obama Health care plan and instead, give tax breaks and incentives to employers who  offer easier access health care to their employees.  I would leave some of the provisions, like the preexisting conditions part.  I think that insurance companies really need to have a little heart, even if they are business men/women. 
  7. I would allow health care to be used across states and the like, so that consumers could get the best deals possible. 
  8. I would sue the stuffing out of BP, and ban them from drilling anywhere near the US coast, while allowing full access to American companies to drill in Alaska, the coast, etc. America needs to become fully independent while also exploring cleaner, renewable resources. 
  9. I would order the park rangers around the Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, etc. to leave children (albeit off-key) alone whilst they are singing the National Anthem.  Free Speech should be protected, regardless of whether it's singing at a monument, burning a flag, walking around with a destroyed fetus sign, or a Bush is Satan sign.  Men and women alike have sacrificed their lives so that we, as Americans, have the right to free speech.  Stifling that, regardless of whether or not we agree with the speech, is a dishonor to their lives.
  10. Collect back taxes from everyone, including people in our government.  I think it's high time that the members of our government were treated equally with the rest of the American people.  When we do wrong, when we steal as children, we are punished.  Not paying your taxes is stealing from the rest of us, and you should be punished. 
  11. Restructure the education system.  Tenure must be earned via test scores, overall grades, etc.  Paychecks will be done that way as well.  Remove useless "teachers" and replace them with instructors who will provide a fully immersed educational environment.  Worksheets and the like are not teaching.  They are a tool for laziness and carelessness. 
  12. Illegal Immigrants will be given two choices:  To be shipped out free-of-charge to their country of origin, or to pay an arbitrary fee and be allowed permanent residence without citizenship.  If they wish to be citizens, they must go back to their country of origin, and wait in line through legal means.  The fine may be waived or lessened if they turn in their employer. 
  13. Sanctuary states/cities will be fined to the hilt.  When someone hides a criminal, they are found to be helping them.  The cities are doing the same. 
  14. I would amend the 14th Amendment, removing the loopholes for anchor babies.  At least one (I'm really thinking both) parent needs to be a LEGAL citizen of the USA.  
  15. Cap and Trade will never hit the boards.  Sorry.  Never.  Ever.  Ever.
So...in my hypothetical world, I want to do a lot, but the truth is, it'll never happen. 


_____________________________

Something so symbolic seeps from silence.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:43:32 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That's the problem. The govt spends all of the money but it does nothing to put anyone to work. Unless you have a job with the govt. Don't believe the 9.5 % unemployment figure. It is actually closer to 17 %..


You aren't making sense. If the gov't spends the money it goes to someone. That someone probably spends the money on other things in the economy which provide jobs and then other jobs and so on and so on.....Or are you saying someone keeps all the money. Can you be clearer on this for me?


Even Obama's (now former) economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


That wasn't what he was saying...


It addresses what BOTH of you were saying. Yes, money taxed and paid to a government employee gets spent and it creates more jobs. Enough to increase GDP by 40 cents on the dollar. Money that isnt taxed and is spent also creates jobs. Enough to increase GDP by $2 on the dollar.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:45:29 AM   
Archer


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Well as much as folks on the left like to think it was President Clinton, the ONLY Congress to balance a budget and hold spending down in our lifetimes was a Republican run House and Senate. Clinton's proposed budget was deficit spending, and the only reason the budget was ballanced in the end was that the Republicans obstructed the budget and shut the government down. Forcing President Clinton to the table and eventually to make the cuts.

So the only Congress (who controls spending) thus far to actually be willing to make the tough calls and actually cut the budget to a balanced state was controled by the Republicans.

Jobs plan well they have a pretty hands off plan, but here are the points in their plan.

Item #1 a tax cut however before you dismiss this as a trick for the wealthy, it's proposed that the lowest tax brackets be reduced from 10% to 5% and from 15% to 10% at the very bottom of the tax scale. That rate cut would put $500-$1200 a year in the pockets of the working poor for them to spend thus stimulating the economy and boosting jobs in a market based solution.

Item #2 a Small Business Tax Cut. a 20% of income tax deduction for businesses with less than 500 employees. More money in their company coffers should result in more people being hired.

Item #3 Offset the tax cuts with spending cuts They haven;t specified where as yet, but I',m sure it will be in the areas the Democrats like cuts least, social programs, although a large part of it could be paid for by diverting the remaining stimulus money. (not sure just socila program cuts should be considered, a nice across the board cut might be OK.

Item #4 (a really pretty good idea here) Make Unemployment benefits Tax Free. Currently unemployment benefits are taxed as income. At the time when people can least afford to pay the government taxes, when they are not working, wouldn't it be most gracious and benevolent to give the folks dealing with unemployment a break and not tax them on the benefits?

Item #5 Last item in their plan as put forth on the minority whip website.

Stabilize home prices, by putting forth a new Home Buyers Credit of $7,500 for buyers with at least 5% down payment. Which should stimulate the buyers to buy again and help stabilize home prices. (How this makes it a jobs issue I'm not sure but I'm used to both sides putting forth things that are less than directly related into their plans.)


That is what they have put forth a pretty lack luster plan but still seems like a better chance to work plan to me than the one the democrats have put forth that has yielded no results worth mentioning.







(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:52:06 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Well as much as folks on the left like to think it was President Clinton, the ONLY Congress to balance a budget and hold spending down in our lifetimes was a Republican run House and Senate. Clinton's proposed budget was deficit spending, and the only reason the budget was ballanced in the end was that the Republicans obstructed the budget and shut the government down. Forcing President Clinton to the table and eventually to make the cuts.

So the only Congress (who controls spending) thus far to actually be willing to make the tough calls and actually cut the budget to a balanced state was controled by the Republicans.

Jobs plan well they have a pretty hands off plan, but here are the points in their plan.

Item #1 a tax cut however before you dismiss this as a trick for the wealthy, it's proposed that the lowest tax brackets be reduced from 10% to 5% and from 15% to 10% at the very bottom of the tax scale. That rate cut would put $500-$1200 a year in the pockets of the working poor for them to spend thus stimulating the economy and boosting jobs in a market based solution.

Item #2 a Small Business Tax Cut. a 20% of income tax deduction for businesses with less than 500 employees. More money in their company coffers should result in more people being hired.

Item #3 Offset the tax cuts with spending cuts They haven;t specified where as yet, but I',m sure it will be in the areas the Democrats like cuts least, social programs, although a large part of it could be paid for by diverting the remaining stimulus money. (not sure just socila program cuts should be considered, a nice across the board cut might be OK.

Item #4 (a really pretty good idea here) Make Unemployment benefits Tax Free. Currently unemployment benefits are taxed as income. At the time when people can least afford to pay the government taxes, when they are not working, wouldn't it be most gracious and benevolent to give the folks dealing with unemployment a break and not tax them on the benefits?

Item #5 Last item in their plan as put forth on the minority whip website.

Stabilize home prices, by putting forth a new Home Buyers Credit of $7,500 for buyers with at least 5% down payment. Which should stimulate the buyers to buy again and help stabilize home prices. (How this makes it a jobs issue I'm not sure but I'm used to both sides putting forth things that are less than directly related into their plans.)


That is what they have put forth a pretty lack luster plan but still seems like a better chance to work plan to me than the one the democrats have put forth that has yielded no results worth mentioning.









Well, even under the Clinton WH and GOP Congress the budget wasnt quite balanced, total spending still exceeded total income, requiring additional borrowing.

But in addition to your listed planks and their direct effect on the economy, there is a huge indirect effect of three items. Scaling back or repeal of health care reform and permanently ditching cap and trade remove the threat of unbridled tax increases and the uncertainty that is holding back investments. And controlling the borders with no amnesty for current illegals will reduce unemployment and increase spending, stimulating the economy.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:56:44 AM   
Archer


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Sure but those items are not listed on the JOBS program bullet points of the Minority Whip's website. LOL

The question was what are the Republicans proposing, so I offered the 5 point plan that the Republican Whip has up on the website.
Those are not my proposed ideas those are what the Republicans have offered up.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:57:08 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That's the problem. The govt spends all of the money but it does nothing to put anyone to work. Unless you have a job with the govt. Don't believe the 9.5 % unemployment figure. It is actually closer to 17 %..


You aren't making sense. If the gov't spends the money it goes to someone. That someone probably spends the money on other things in the economy which provide jobs and then other jobs and so on and so on.....Or are you saying someone keeps all the money. Can you be clearer on this for me?


Even Obama's (now former) economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


That wasn't what he was saying...


It addresses what BOTH of you were saying. Yes, money taxed and paid to a government employee gets spent and it creates more jobs. Enough to increase GDP by 40 cents on the dollar. Money that isnt taxed and is spent also creates jobs. Enough to increase GDP by $2 on the dollar.


And that is urban legend.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:01:17 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Well as much as folks on the left like to think it was President Clinton, the ONLY Congress to balance a budget and hold spending down in our lifetimes was a Republican run House and Senate. Clinton's proposed budget was deficit spending, and the only reason the budget was ballanced in the end was that the Republicans obstructed the budget and shut the government down. Forcing President Clinton to the table and eventually to make the cuts.

So the only Congress (who controls spending) thus far to actually be willing to make the tough calls and actually cut the budget to a balanced state was controled by the Republicans.

Jobs plan well they have a pretty hands off plan, but here are the points in their plan.

Item #1 a tax cut however before you dismiss this as a trick for the wealthy, it's proposed that the lowest tax brackets be reduced from 10% to 5% and from 15% to 10% at the very bottom of the tax scale. That rate cut would put $500-$1200 a year in the pockets of the working poor for them to spend thus stimulating the economy and boosting jobs in a market based solution.

Item #2 a Small Business Tax Cut. a 20% of income tax deduction for businesses with less than 500 employees. More money in their company coffers should result in more people being hired.

Item #3 Offset the tax cuts with spending cuts They haven;t specified where as yet, but I',m sure it will be in the areas the Democrats like cuts least, social programs, although a large part of it could be paid for by diverting the remaining stimulus money. (not sure just socila program cuts should be considered, a nice across the board cut might be OK.

Item #4 (a really pretty good idea here) Make Unemployment benefits Tax Free. Currently unemployment benefits are taxed as income. At the time when people can least afford to pay the government taxes, when they are not working, wouldn't it be most gracious and benevolent to give the folks dealing with unemployment a break and not tax them on the benefits?

Item #5 Last item in their plan as put forth on the minority whip website.

Stabilize home prices, by putting forth a new Home Buyers Credit of $7,500 for buyers with at least 5% down payment. Which should stimulate the buyers to buy again and help stabilize home prices. (How this makes it a jobs issue I'm not sure but I'm used to both sides putting forth things that are less than directly related into their plans.)


That is what they have put forth a pretty lack luster plan but still seems like a better chance to work plan to me than the one the democrats have put forth that has yielded no results worth mentioning.









Nothing like revisionist history to match your beliefs. But, Clinton is the one that forced congresses hand and the gov't shut because of it. The budget was balanced because Business and social policy made it possible for people to succeed and get a positive result from their efforts. Tax revenues increased from increased economic activity as well as increased taxe rates. Unemployment down, Poverty down,......No wars......he did pretty well.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:23:00 AM   
Archer


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Yep nothing like revisionist history for sure, the question is who's revising and who was there actually watching the news as it happend?

Yng you have been reading the revised edition, I was actually voting and keeping track of what was happening back then when it happened. You were what 4 runnin round the house in underoos.

Clinton couldn't shut down the government he could only refuse to shift from his position he could veto the spending bills. THE CONGRESS controls the purse styrings regardless of what history you want to read the CONSTITUTION, says so. The Congress refused to raise the debt ceiling (something the pelosi Congress did with out any real thought or debate about the wisdom of doing) That refusal ment there was no money to pay for the government. Shutting down the government was beyond the power of the President of The United States. He could only stand up and call the bluff of Congress, and Newt wasn't bluffing.

The question that is not in doubt is that the Republican Congress's budget cut spending deeper than the budget proposed by President Clinton. Using the numbers of the CBO which at the time were more conservative than the white house numbers ment that the cuts had to be deeper to be balanced.





(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:28:32 AM   
DomYngBlk


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I read quite a bit. So, I think I can speak to it. You are talking one budget for one fiscal. I am looking at the whole of the 8 years and what was before and after. There is no doubt that President Clinton left the country safer, more propserous, and with more hope for the future then any President since FDR.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:37:44 AM   
Archer


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LOL We'll have to agree to disagree there DomYngBlk, I found Clinton to be a mediocre president not bad but nothing special. He inherited a no lose situation and didn't do much with it. Lots of lucky timming.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:42:36 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Joined: 3/27/2006
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Yeah, again revisionist republican history. Reagan/Bush set up the 90's right? Well if that is the case then surely it was because of a Democratic Congress...........The facts don't lie.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:49:38 AM   
Archer


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Joined: 3/11/2005
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No revisionism in it wasn't putting laurals on Rgean or Bush really other than the collapse of the Soviet Union thing.

Timming was right Clinton LUCKED into the dot com bubble. (wasn't created by Bush or Regan)
Clinton LUCKED into the peace dividend, the ability to safely cut military spending in the minds of most Americans. (this was a Regan creation to a large extent but not what I was driving at.)
Clinton LUCKED into alot of things that made his presidency easier and still he didn;'t do much with it. Again not terrible, just mediocre.

But then again your knee jerk response it typical.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:56:45 AM   
mnottertail


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Yeah, don't want to talk about mediocre presidents, don't want to talk about absolutely treasonous presidents.

What is the GOP going to do to get us prosperity and jobs, flushing our debt.

Why should we vote for them?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 10:05:06 AM   
Archer


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Joined: 3/11/2005
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Mnottertail I answered your question several posts back, you been asleep at the switch man.

I posted the 5 poiunt plan the Republicans have offered up on the Republican Whip's website.
I includded a couple personal opinions about one or two of the points in the plan, and said I found it lack luster but still sounded like it would work better than the current results we are getting from the Democrat plan.


So before you hand me any crap for being off topic you should attend to the fact that I did answer your question and it is you that is behind on the assignment.




< Message edited by Archer -- 8/10/2010 10:06:05 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 10:14:36 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

No revisionism in it wasn't putting laurals on Rgean or Bush really other than the collapse of the Soviet Union thing.

Timming was right Clinton LUCKED into the dot com bubble. (wasn't created by Bush or Regan)
Clinton LUCKED into the peace dividend, the ability to safely cut military spending in the minds of most Americans. (this was a Regan creation to a large extent but not what I was driving at.)
Clinton LUCKED into alot of things that made his presidency easier and still he didn;'t do much with it. Again not terrible, just mediocre.

But then again your knee jerk response it typical.



And your righty swing at the "facts" is certainly predictable. Last I checked Vietnam stopped in 1975. Since then Reagan got a few hundred marines massacred in Lebanon, won the battle of grenada, Bush saved Kuwait for freedoms sake......So really the "peace dividend" started well before the 1990's. It was the Administrations of the 80's that decided to build guns rather than make butter. Borrowed quite a bit to make those guns as well.

But really it is hilarious how with the facts staring a republican in the face they still cannot give Clinton the credit he deserves. It is actually pretty entertaining

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 10:15:09 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Even Obama's (now former) economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).



Once again you have been duped by not checking out your sources. Romer's report never made a comparison betwen the two.

Please try and do better in the future. This is has to be tiresome for you to be continually corrected.

_____________________________



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 10:36:15 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
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Sorry DomYngBlk not going to continue the game. Your so far off base that you can't even agree that rating a president is a matter of opinion. You're too far out of reason to debate this with. I rate Clinton at a solid C nothing more because he got delt a hand full of aces and did nothing much with them.

What's even better is that you don't even know WTF you;re talking about when it comes to me being a republican. I'm a fuckin Libertarian, I didn;t vote for Either Bush either time, nor have I voted for an Republican since Regan.

Regan, Perot,  Browne (x2)  , Badnarick, Barr Have been my presidential votes for the past 6 presidential elections.



< Message edited by Archer -- 8/10/2010 10:41:10 AM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 10:42:56 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

the ONLY Congress to balance a budget and hold spending down in our lifetimes was a Republican run House and Senate.


AND a Republican run House and Senate and White House that spent six years running up huge deficits again.

But thanks for playing.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 40
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