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RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 2:48:10 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Which is what gave rise to the Tea Party fiscal conservative voters lost faith with the incumbent republicans and felt they had no representation. it may have been hijacked and gone all sorts of other places after that but the Tea Party started as a movement angry about a lack of fiscal conservatives in government.

Sadly, I don't get the impression that's what the tea party's about at all. The impression I get is more that there's a bunch of hard right wingnuts who feel that the Kenyan's only in power because the Republicans put up a weak ticket so that the Democrats would get saddled with the blame for Bush wrecking the economy, and a few people who hate the notion of a mulatto in the white house have been drawn in as well.
I could find the talk about fiscal conservatism being the wellspring of the tea party a lot more plausible if any of the various self elected spokesmen I've seen pontificating about it gave any indication of understanding economics, or (in a few cases) of even being numerate.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 4:11:48 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That's the problem. The govt spends all of the money but it does nothing to put anyone to work. Unless you have a job with the govt. Don't believe the 9.5 % unemployment figure. It is actually closer to 17 %..


You aren't making sense. If the gov't spends the money it goes to someone. That someone probably spends the money on other things in the economy which provide jobs and then other jobs and so on and so on.....Or are you saying someone keeps all the money. Can you be clearer on this for me?


Even Obama's (now former) economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


That wasn't what he was saying...


It addresses what BOTH of you were saying. Yes, money taxed and paid to a government employee gets spent and it creates more jobs. Enough to increase GDP by 40 cents on the dollar. Money that isnt taxed and is spent also creates jobs. Enough to increase GDP by $2 on the dollar.


And that is urban legend.

If Obama's economic advisor is stuff of urban legend, you have a point.

As usual, you dont have a point.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 4:16:34 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

No revisionism in it wasn't putting laurals on Rgean or Bush really other than the collapse of the Soviet Union thing.

Timming was right Clinton LUCKED into the dot com bubble. (wasn't created by Bush or Regan)
Clinton LUCKED into the peace dividend, the ability to safely cut military spending in the minds of most Americans. (this was a Regan creation to a large extent but not what I was driving at.)
Clinton LUCKED into alot of things that made his presidency easier and still he didn;'t do much with it. Again not terrible, just mediocre.

But then again your knee jerk response it typical.



And your righty swing at the "facts" is certainly predictable. Last I checked Vietnam stopped in 1975. Since then Reagan got a few hundred marines massacred in Lebanon, won the battle of grenada, Bush saved Kuwait for freedoms sake......So really the "peace dividend" started well before the 1990's. It was the Administrations of the 80's that decided to build guns rather than make butter. Borrowed quite a bit to make those guns as well.

But really it is hilarious how with the facts staring a republican in the face they still cannot give Clinton the credit he deserves. It is actually pretty entertaining


Read a history book for a change. The "peace dividend" was the direct result of winding down of the cold war, which was engineered by Reagan. It consisted of a dismantling of the defense industry to the point where we can't competively bid out contracts because there is only one capable provider. It consisted of a 35% cutback in troop levels and maintenance budgets that left much of the military infrastructure in decay and had to be refurbushed under GWB.

Archer's history is exactly right, and as usual you dont know what the fuck youre talking about.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 4:20:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In 1998, Bill Clinton presented the first balanced federal budget (with no annual deficit) since 1969 ...

So the democrats HAVE balanced the federal budget.


Archers point was that the Dems were not in conrol of congress. and my point is that it wasnt really a balanced budget. Spending exceeded tax revenues, money had to be borrowed. so no President and no Congress have actually done it in the modern era.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/10/2010 4:21:40 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 4:28:55 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
So, what is the Grand Old Parties plans to get us out of our current difficulties?
How will they create jobs?
How will they balance payments, and pay down our debt?
How will they fix our infrastructure?
How will they deal with the global community to keep us safe and competitive?
I'm listening.


Ron, I'm listening as well and I ain't hearing anything intelligent from the GOP either. In fact some of the things from the GOP side is just as alarming. Seriously, America is bung hole deep into debt. The tax cuts the GOP is wanting ain't in the right places and seriously... We need to have taxes like they were around the Clinton years, and be way more responsible with spending. I'm not in favor of this tax cut madness and In favor in cutting back or being more responsible in spending. I really don't see the GOP pitching any plans that are worth a grain of salt. Just the same old same old stale cracker ecomonic plans that have time tested and proven to not work. Trickle downs.

I'm still listening for more details from the GOP, I'm very interested in hearing more. Seriously, the GOP is lost and clueless. At the moment they seem to be focused upon their war campaign against the Obama administration and side stepping coming up with a solution. Solutions that just might make a change in their own party ways of thinking about shit. The GOP needs to seriously make some changes in their philosophy if they wish to do anything Good.


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 7:00:32 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		I'm hearing very few solutions...mostly theories about what generates income, etc.

Tax credits have one problem - you have to have enough taxable income to even be able to qualify.  If you're out of work, they won't help.  If you have no sales, they won't help.  There's an upturn in corporate income, but they aren't hiring, they're sitting on the money.  So it's hard to directly correlate increasing corporate income to hiring.

Privatizing social security?  In what?  I don't know anyone with an intact 401k (which were never intended to be a retirement vehicle) around here.  The stock market has a well earning history of flat spots decades long, where your money would stagnate. 

Abolishing DHS, while keeping the workers, would generate no efficiencies.

(Many of the positions in AsmodaisSin I don't see relating to job creation...Nambla, Park Rangers, sanctuary cities, etc.  But they are some concrete ideas, as opposed to "tax less", etc.)

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 7:41:38 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

a 35% cutback in troop levels and maintenance budgets that left much of the military infrastructure in decay and had to be refurbushed under GWB


While you're lecturing about revisionist history, pick up some reading yourself.

Republicans weren't complaining about troop levels and military infrastructure during the 90s--they were too busy screaming we should cut taxes, that "it's your money," as the best use for the not even surpluses at first, but lower deficits. We also outspend by incredible margins all other nations in this area.

GWB wasn't crying for increases either--more tax cuts! Not to mention veterans' benefits. Then 9/11 and the rush to war, with Rummy and Cheney boasting we could do this on the cheap, against what the Pentagon was telling him.

Troop levels weren't an issue until they decided to hit Iraq too on a lie. Oh, and the claim that was gonna be a quickie too. The infrastructure is just fine. Congress even kept sending the Pentagon toys they didn't even want.

When/if someday America finally crumbles, Republicans will be there to say, "Well, hell, we may as well cut taxes now."


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 7:48:54 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		exactly right.

YouTube - BONER: $250k+ for Golf, but No Money for Cops, Firefighters & Teachers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaYVf4J1zus



quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Boehner has no clue...he just wants to play more golf


(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 7:56:51 PM   
Brain


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They will cut social security, repeal health care reform, cut taxes for the rich and we will be happy as this will provide more freedom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Since name calling is now frowned upon, I am going to pass on it. I will instead respond to your silly post.

WHERE will they reduce spending. HOW will they reduce spending. What effect will it have on the rest of our lives?

How much less in taxes will make your own personal life better?

Please don't give me the bullshit, 'any amount" answer. 10.00 in your pocket does very little to improve your life.

What taxes will they reduce?


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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:01:56 PM   
Brain


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That’s why you filibuster extending unemployment benefits because they will spend the money and stimulate the economy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Any amount of money I have to spend is better than the government wasteing it. $ 100 will go a long way maybe for dinner and drinks. The restaurant keeps employees that now have my $ 100 to spend someplace else. $ 100 given to the govt doesn't employ anyone. The more they take, the less everyone has to spend.


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:05:46 PM   
Brain


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Boner is in a Washington bar drinking virtually every evening.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, government employees don't go out for dinner and drinks?  Doesn't that equal out?  How about government contractors?  Senators?  RNC chairmen entertaining contributors? 

If the government doesn't spend this money as well (on our economy) then we are either sitting on a fuckin heineous pile of cash somewhere, or they are spending great sums overseas for OUR benefit?    Uh oh............


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:11:48 PM   
Brain


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Because the Republicans are filibustering job bills.

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

They are NOT providing jobs. Unemployment is at a record high and it isn't going down any time soon.


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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:22:54 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Why would we need more jobs bills or teacher bailouts. The White House has been billing this as


A Summer of Recovery


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:40:56 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Not true. Government CAN AND DOES create jobs :

The Jobs Emergency

We need a response proportional to the crisis. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid should summon Congress back to Washington for action on the jobs emergency.

First item on the agenda: establishing a federal bank that will provide states and locales zero-interest loans, to be repaid when their unemployment rates drop to 5 percent or below.

Second item: eliminating payroll taxes on the first $20,000 of all incomes and make up the difference by subjecting all income above $250,000 to the payroll tax. (Remember, the wealthy save most of their after-tax income, lower-income Americans spend it.)

Third item: recreating the WPA to hire Americans directly. The Works Progress Administration put Americans back to work during the Depression rebuilding the nation's infrastructure.

The jobs emergency requires no less.

This post originally appeared at RobertReich.org.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-jobs-emergency_b_676067.html


quote:

Private businesses create jobs, not Democrats and not Republicans, so that questions a moot point. In other words government doesnt create jobs, government taxes jobs. Government doesnt create wealth, government taxes wealth. So it follows that if you want to stimulate the economy you have to get the government beast on a chain.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 8:51:33 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, what is the Grand Old Parties plans to get us out of our current difficulties?

How will they create jobs?
How will they balance payments, and pay down our debt?
How will they fix our infrastructure?
How will they deal with the global community to keep us safe and competitive?


I'm listening.


I don't have nor am I going to spend any time attempting to create a "plan" for the GOP.
But, as usual, I have an OPINION!

lol
Aren't they the one's that got us into the recession headed for depression, we are in NOW???

too funny!
The GOP is who we have to thank for our lot in life today.

Actually, the GOP would probably cut a lot of programs, and put more people out on the streets, and in homeless shelters!


< Message edited by Marini -- 8/10/2010 8:55:00 PM >

_____________________________

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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:07:10 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		They have to change the tax rates but not the Clinton years.

FTA:
As many of you know, the fact that the top marginal rate (now 35%) was 90% in the 1950s – arguably, the most prosperous decade of any decade in any country in recorded history – is one that I love. As I've also said, I'm not sure about 90%. That strikes even me as a tad high. (Remember, we're talking marginal rates, meaning that rate is paid only on dollars earned above X; lower rates apply to dollars earned below X.) But I really do not see why we can't create brackets at $1m and $5m and $10m that run, say, 45 and 55 and 65%.

From there, it wouldn't be too long before America became like a third world country in terms of vital social and quality-of-life statistics. But most of these people are from the south, and most southern states are little third world countries now, really, so they wouldn't notice – at least, until all the largesse that comes their way from the high-tax and high-productivity northern states started to dry up.



Soaking the super-rich

Should LeBron James and LeBron James's dentist pay the same tax rate?

Jim Surowiecki of the New Yorker puts on the table a question I've raised here for some time, that of the top marginal tax rate for very high-income Americans. He writes:

Even within the top one per cent, income is getting more concentrated: the top 0.1 per cent of earners have seen their share of national income triple over the same period. All by themselves, they now earn as much as the bottom hundred and twenty million people. So at the same time that the rich have been pulling away from the middle class, the very rich have been pulling away from the pretty rich, and the very, very rich have been pulling away from the very rich.

The current debate over taxes takes none of this into account. At the moment, we have a system of tax brackets well suited to nineteenth-century New Zealand. Our system sets the top bracket at three hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars, with a tax rate of thirty-five per cent. (People in the second-highest bracket, starting at a hundred and seventy-two thousand dollars for individuals, pay thirty-three per cent.) This means that someone making two hundred thousand dollars a year and someone making two hundred million dollars a year pay at similar tax rates. LeBron James and LeBron James's dentist: same difference.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2010/aug/10/usdomesticpolicy-soak-the-superrich



quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
So, what is the Grand Old Parties plans to get us out of our current difficulties?
How will they create jobs?
How will they balance payments, and pay down our debt?
How will they fix our infrastructure?
How will they deal with the global community to keep us safe and competitive?
I'm listening.


Ron, I'm listening as well and I ain't hearing anything intelligent from the GOP either. In fact some of the things from the GOP side is just as alarming. Seriously, America is bung hole deep into debt. The tax cuts the GOP is wanting ain't in the right places and seriously... We need to have taxes like they were around the Clinton years, and be way more responsible with spending. I'm not in favor of this tax cut madness and In favor in cutting back or being more responsible in spending. I really don't see the GOP pitching any plans that are worth a grain of salt. Just the same old same old stale cracker ecomonic plans that have time tested and proven to not work. Trickle downs.

I'm still listening for more details from the GOP, I'm very interested in hearing more. Seriously, the GOP is lost and clueless. At the moment they seem to be focused upon their war campaign against the Obama administration and side stepping coming up with a solution. Solutions that just might make a change in their own party ways of thinking about shit. The GOP needs to seriously make some changes in their philosophy if they wish to do anything Good.





A crowd of protester at the statehouse in Atlanta, part of nationwide Tea Party protests of taxation and government spending. Photograph: KPA/Zuma/Rex Features





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:11:23 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
It’s not a bailout. Those kids need to get an education or they have no future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Why would we need more jobs bills or teacher bailouts. The White House has been billing this as


A Summer of Recovery



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:14:38 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Archer's history is exactly right, and as usual you dont know what the fuck youre talking about.



Thge nerve you have to say this abouit another poster. Your posts have no regard for the truth as I have proven time and time again.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:29:07 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Even Obama's (now former) economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


.
And that is urban legend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: .wilbur
If Obama's economic advisor is stuff of urban legend, you have a point.

As usual, you dont have a point.



You try and manipulate every conversations with your posts to hide your lies. Everyone knows who was Obama's economic advisor....What is being asked of you is to please supply the information that you spewed out about.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: .wilbur
.....Obama's economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


Please provide how you reached that conclusion? Once again you have been caught in a lie.

It would be nice if someone would quote this because wilbur has claimed to have placed me on block, which like so much else he posts I am fairly confident is a lie.



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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: GOP to the rescue. - 8/10/2010 9:32:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Even Obama's (now former) economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


.
And that is urban legend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: .wilbur
If Obama's economic advisor is stuff of urban legend, you have a point.

As usual, you dont have a point.



You try and manipulate every conversations with your posts to hide your lies. Everyone knows who was Obama's economic advisor....What is being asked of you is to please supply the information that you spewed out about.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: .wilbur
.....Obama's economic advisor admits that that the multiplier on private spending is about twice the multiplier on government taxing/spending. (A multiplier of 3 vs around 1.4).


Please provide how you reached that conclusion? Once again you have been caught in a lie.

It would be nice if someone would quote this because wilbur has claimed to have placed me on block, which like so much else he posts I am fairly confident is a lie.




Here you go Domi because im curious about the source as well.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 8/10/2010 9:34:35 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 80
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