RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (Full Version)

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nephandi -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 5:13:48 AM)

Greetings

quote:

I agree she should try to address it with him. It was his reaction the next day that is more troubling than his reaction that night.


Ok, I agree that the man's reaction the next day was not the best but there is always two sides to every story. How did the woman in question address her concerns? It is very easy to be defensive if someone else is weaving the blame stick and is accusing and when one get defensive or angry it is easy to say things on really do not mean. There is a huge difference if she said for example:

"Can we talk about last night. I know it is not your fault but I really did not intend to come back in that condition and I really needed you to be more supportive. I am a bit upset, can we talk?"

In which case his reaction was completely out of line. However if she attacked him then it is far more understandable. If she for example said.

"You where such a jerk last night. I needed you and you let me down. I am so disappointed in you, how could you just blow me off like that, you are a horrible boyfriend, shame on you."

Hell in that situation if someone had come to me with  something akin to the last example then I would have bit her head off to. I would have felt so unfairly treated and would get angry instead of desiring to solve the issue which seam to be more a case of miscommunication than anything else. Now I am not saying any of the above was said. However I am saying that before we judge the boyfriend I would be nice to know how the OP let her feelings be known for what really makes the difference for me for whatever his reply was insensitive and completely out of line or completely understandable.

I wish you well.



jujubeeMB -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 7:04:55 AM)

I've read a bunch (but not all) of this thread, and I just have to say that I don't care about dynamics, situation, jealousy, prior agreements, bad moods, confusion or any other excuses - if I genuinely need help and my Dom/friend/partner/boyfriend/anyone around me doesn't give it to me, that person is cruel, and off my list. I don't care what the circumstances are. Every jealous/angry/reasonable conversation possible can happen in the morning.

When I was in college, my roommate (who was the worst kind of selfish, jerky, obnoxious person - I couldn't stand her) came back from a bar wasted out of her mind. Her friends dumped her in the room and she promptly went and collapsed, unconscious, in a pool of vomit in the corridor. The RA called 911 and when she was carted off to the emergency room I went with her, and sat in the ER for five hours while she threw up and peed her pants and everyone in the place was rude to me because they assumed I was part of the problem. At like 7am she was able to walk, so they promptly threw us out and I walked her home, got her showered, held her hair while she threw up some more, got her hydrated, and put her in warm clothes in bed.

I had to take a shower after that, and when I finally went to sleep it was like 10am. I missed all of my classes, including a test. I seriously wanted to murder my roommate - hated her guts in the first place - and we had words that night when she woke up sober, but I can't even remotely fathom not helping her. Because that's what you do.

With the OP, I absolutely think there were conversations to be had the next day, and a ton of examining their relationship and expectations. But the crux of the issue, to me, is why he didn't help her. I can't imagine sleeping next to the kind of person who wouldn't.



couldbemage -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 7:30:11 AM)

...Funny....

So much here about him not helping, or not being there for her....

Yet he did help her. It's in the OP. He was just a dick about it.

Once he got that she was unable to get herself water, he got it for her.

From a medical point of view, she didn't need anything. The only need he neglected was an emotional need.

It seems almost like there is among bdsmers a sort of after care religion, and this guy peed in your holy water.



sirsholly -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 7:43:20 AM)

quote:

From a medical point of view, she didn't need anything. The only need he neglected was an emotional need.
some instances of sub-space are a form of shock. The main thing they need is observation, but also fluids to increase the blood volume/blood pressure as well as to prevent dehydration. Food is required to increase the bodies possible dropping glucose level. Blankets/heat are needed because the body temp drops and a mild hypothermia occurs.

Again though...everyone is different.


All i need is someone to talk to me to help me reorient.[:)]



DesFIP -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 7:46:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I agree she should try to address it with him. It was his reaction the next day that is more troubling than his reaction that night.

You know, my own jadedness is showing I suppose. I have been in the situation of sucking it up because of all this drama and trauma surrounding my significant other. It was always about him in our years together. He had either an illness, or a surgery, or his family was imploding, or this or that or the other. I am not saying that this person isn't going through a hard time, but at some point that can become an excuse to not be a partner to your lover and give support to them. It becomes one person giving and the other taking. Like I said, I am not saying this is what happened here, but my own personal struggles may color my opinion.


Bingo. It seems like this to me also. He lies about what he's willing to do for her. He says he has the right to permit her to go out, to play with others, but he wants only the rights and none of the responsibilities of a dominant. He demands she pays for a room for him to have sex with others.

And only his past baggage matters. As long as it's all about him, everything's fine. When she needs him, he refuses to be there. There is no mention of him ever being there for her before, simply him promising to should it be necessary.

When it was necessary he refused. Worse, when her friends brought her upstairs and gave him the out to have them take care of her instead, he lied to them and said he would do what was necessary. He didn't want anyone to judge him badly for kicking her out and not being willing to get her a glass of water and warming her up. He deliberately lied to them knowing the result would be that her needs would not be met.

The rest of you may think this is honorable behavior, but I don't.



akisha -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 8:10:53 AM)

~FR~

After reading all 11 pages I have no new insight or clarifying tidbit to add, seems like every angle has been discussed.

But as a sub, who for the fist time in 18 years is starting to play with people other then the person I am in a relationship with. I found this thread HUGELY helpful. Y'all discussed things and brought up points I never if thought to discuss with my Dom/fiance.

I have no written a huge list of questions and thoughts that we will need to discuss and go through and I know now that each time I play with someone else it will not just be a me and the other Dominant negotiating but all three (or more) of us discussing not only the play aspect but the aftercare as well.

I know some Doms/Tops that require soft time or recoup time with the sub or bottom that they are playing with as well. It's a re-connect and centering shared time. It's just as rude to walk away from the Top that played you as it is for the Top to walk away from the bottom.

Thank you everyone for really opening my eyes to the very real need to dicuss not just with the person you are playing with but also discuss with the person you are going home to, as to what every one needs and expects before hand.



nephandi -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 8:48:32 AM)

Greetings

You do not leave a helpless person stranded. But what you did for your roommate went far beyond the call of duty. Now I am not saying that it was a bad thing to do, but I do not agree that one can expect anyone to do that. I definitely would not. I would call 911 and get her help and stay with her until help arrived and then I would feel I had done my part.

quote:

With the OP, I absolutely think there were conversations to be had the next day, and a ton of examining their relationship and expectations. But the crux of the issue, to me, is why he didn't help her. I can't imagine sleeping next to the kind of person who wouldn't.


De did help her, he just did not give her as much help as she wanted. It is not like he left her in a life threatening situation, when she said she had sub drop he did cuddle her and talk with her, but he did not do all she wanted him to do.

I wish you well.



nephandi -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 8:56:29 AM)

Greetings

quote:

Bingo. It seems like this to me also. He lies about what he's willing to do for her. He says he has the right to permit her to go out, to play with others, but he wants only the rights and none of the responsibilities of a dominant. He demands she pays for a room for him to have sex with others.


The way I see it he did not give her permission to go out and play like a Dominant to a sub, but as a boyfriend in an open relationship giving the ok for the girlfriend to play with others. That do not mean he accept responsibility for anything she might go and do, it just means he says it is fine by me if you want to go and play with others. And again what do it matter who paid for the room, that is completely irrelevant to the question at hand.

quote:

When it was necessary he refused. Worse, when her friends brought her upstairs and gave him the out to have them take care of her instead, he lied to them and said he would do what was necessary. He didn't want anyone to judge him badly for kicking her out and not being willing to get her a glass of water and warming her up. He deliberately lied to them knowing the result would be that her needs would not be met.


It is possible I have missed a post, but from what I understood the OP's friends just dropped her off and never spoke to her boyfriend. If they spoke with him and he agreed to take care of her that is another matter entirely, that is accepting a responsibility he did not fulfill, but if she just came into the room demanding he do things he never agreed to then I do not think one can fault him for it. He said he did not want to play, she forces a part of play on him and that is just not right. If he however accepted responsibility for her then that chances the situation drastically.

I wish you well.



juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 8:57:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Greetings

You do not leave a helpless person stranded. But what you did for your roommate went far beyond the call of duty. Now I am not saying that it was a bad thing to do, but I do not agree that one can expect anyone to do that. I definitely would not. I would call 911 and get her help and stay with her until help arrived and then I would feel I had done my part.

quote:

With the OP, I absolutely think there were conversations to be had the next day, and a ton of examining their relationship and expectations. But the crux of the issue, to me, is why he didn't help her. I can't imagine sleeping next to the kind of person who wouldn't.


De did help her, he just did not give her as much help as she wanted. It is not like he left her in a life threatening situation, when she said she had sub drop he did cuddle her and talk with her, but he did not do all she wanted him to do.

I wish you well.



I think JuJu's point (and she can correct me if I am wrong) is that she doesn't want to involve herself with someone who would only grudgingly help her and would have a negative reaction to doing so. Her feelings are valid, just as yours are.... it is called compatibility. I think it is fine for people to only grudgingly help their lovers when they need help, but I also think they should be involved with people who are strongly independent and don't want it either.

I also think that each of us makes decisions about what we are compatible with... for example, I am seeing someone that literally works 16 hour days, and has to carry a pager/phone everywhere he goes the rest of the time he isn't at work. I had to decide whether or not this was compatible with me and my needs, and I have decided it is....



AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 9:09:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

From a medical point of view, she didn't need anything. The only need he neglected was an emotional need.
some instances of sub-space are a form of shock. The main thing they need is observation, but also fluids to increase the blood volume/blood pressure as well as to prevent dehydration. Food is required to increase the bodies possible dropping glucose level. Blankets/heat are needed because the body temp drops and a mild hypothermia occurs.

Again though...everyone is different.


All i need is someone to talk to me to help me reorient.[:)]



These are not Medical NEEDS, has she simply gone to sleep once the Dopemine in her system subsided she would be fine. She coul dhave been completely ignored and Medically she would have been no worse than she was before the "Shock" started.

She would not die, she would not end up in a Coma, she would not have been damaged beyond repair.

Her Emoptional State COULD have however been compramised.

NONE of these things are Medical Needs, you don't have to believe me... ask your Doctor. I did, I do a lot, I have a Family Doctor that is AWESOME with these kinds of questions, He isn't even Kinky but fully understands.

The Point made about Observation is a Good one. Subspace may not play a part in something more drastic, but the Boyfriend had no idea what she had done, had no idea what areas of her body took stress or restriction from rope. He would have no idea what to look for.

This is shy I am not jumping his shit and am Jumping hers, and the Friends who "Co-Topped" her. Because if she had been damaged, if she was not going through Subspace but Adrenaline Failure, guess what THAT could Harm her, and he would have NO IDEA what to look for.

What She did and what her Friends did was VERY Irresponsible because the one person who had NO IDEA what had happened was the Guy in the Room who she was just dropped off at, with no exlanation of what had happened with a partner who could not speak for herself.

It'l like letting the Dog Babysit the Kids, Sure it could protect them from Intrustion, but what would it do if something went wrong and an Ambulence was needed, it would not be able to give any of the information necessary to those who need it.

This is all about someone wanting what they want and not being responsible about it. I Give her Boyfriend Kudos for not taking her happy ass back down stairs and finding those responsible and asking them if they think it is okay letting a girl in her condition out of their sight before they know she is okay and back from their trip.

QSM



jujubeeMB -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 9:29:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: couldbemage
It seems almost like there is among bdsmers a sort of after care religion, and this guy peed in your holy water.


Did I say anything about BDSM in my post? Or anything about aftercare? My holy water is genuine human consideration, and yes, the guy did pee in that. And ok, you're right, he helped her. She only went to sleep "ragingly thirsty," knowing she needed to eat something, emotionally and psychologically in shock and having just begged for the tiny bit of help she did get.

Really, a very charming man.



Jeffff -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 9:31:10 AM)

Once again, that is an easy judgment to make when his side has not been presented from his point of view.

I wonder what any of your ex's might say about you?

I wonder if you would agree with it all?



LadyPact -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 9:41:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

~FR~

After reading all 11 pages I have no new insight or clarifying tidbit to add, seems like every angle has been discussed.

But as a sub, who for the fist time in 18 years is starting to play with people other then the person I am in a relationship with. I found this thread HUGELY helpful. Y'all discussed things and brought up points I never if thought to discuss with my Dom/fiance.

I have no written a huge list of questions and thoughts that we will need to discuss and go through and I know now that each time I play with someone else it will not just be a me and the other Dominant negotiating but all three (or more) of us discussing not only the play aspect but the aftercare as well.

I know some Doms/Tops that require soft time or recoup time with the sub or bottom that they are playing with as well. It's a re-connect and centering shared time. It's just as rude to walk away from the Top that played you as it is for the Top to walk away from the bottom.

Thank you everyone for really opening my eyes to the very real need to dicuss not just with the person you are playing with but also discuss with the person you are going home to, as to what every one needs and expects before hand.

I'm really glad that you added this contribution, akisha.  For Me, this was the meat and potatoes of the whole thread.  Those of us who do play with other people, or the people we're involved with play with other people, we've got a learning opportunity here.  The OP learned it in a hard way.  (Which I really am sorry for, OP.  I hope you won't take that in the wrong way.)  This being brought up might give us things to think about and discuss before being faced with a similar situation.

I have to wonder on My side of the screen, after 200 replies to this thread, just how many folks took this opportunity.  I'm very glad to see that you did.



fukkpipe -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 10:26:55 AM)

i followed akisha here from Fet. and thank her and Lady Pact as well for bringing up their points of discussion, suggestions on how to move forward and learn from such a situation. Assumptions should never be made about expectations, instead it can be an opportunity to grow. i have no opinion on the rights and wrongs of this thread because i know what's right for me...i just wanted to drop a quick line to wish the OP good luck in the hopes that she manages to get this all sorted to her satisfaction.

What an eye-opener.



sirsholly -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 10:41:29 AM)

quote:

These are not Medical NEEDS, has she simply gone to sleep once the Dopemine in her system subsided she would be fine. She coul dhave been completely ignored and Medically she would have been no worse than she was before the "Shock" started.

NONE of these things are Medical Needs, you don't have to believe me... ask your Doctor. I did, I do a lot, I have a Family Doctor that is AWESOME with these kinds of questions, He isn't even Kinky but fully understands.
Hypotension is not a medical need? Well golly gee, Wally.....thats news to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotension

Hypoglycemia is not a medical condition? Well dayyy-um.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia


Both of these issues are totally preventable with fluid/food intake. If ignored and the person just went to sleep a serious medical issue could result.

If you don't believe me...ask your doctor [:)]



NorthernGent -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 10:55:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

I was the one who initially brought this up, and I'm sorry I did. My only point with it was responding to NG's assertion that she was lucky to even get in the room.



He will agree where he wants her to make her own decisions. I would have agreed to it too.

Where in the OP does it say that the 'boyfriend' said: "enjoy yourself and then come back to me and I'll take care of you". Nowhere. She wanted to go...fine.....but he was under no obligation to pick up the pieces....and as per the OP he didn't suggest he would.

Moral of the story is this: it seems he didn't appreciate her wanting to go off with other people....then find the right woman for you who doesn't want to go off with other people.....it seems she assumed certain needs would be met...then sort it out in advance.

In sum: it's another one of those threads involving people with assumed expectations who haven't bothered to sort it out in advance.....and then create a drama when everything doesn't go your way. Biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard.....she wanted a drink of water and she couldn't manage it? Go to sleep then and get a drink in the morning.

Edited to add: and in terms of what they do from here....grow up...tell it how it is.....and if they don't like how it is then find a new 'boyfriend'/'girlfriend'.



AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 10:57:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

These are not Medical NEEDS, has she simply gone to sleep once the Dopemine in her system subsided she would be fine. She coul dhave been completely ignored and Medically she would have been no worse than she was before the "Shock" started.

NONE of these things are Medical Needs, you don't have to believe me... ask your Doctor. I did, I do a lot, I have a Family Doctor that is AWESOME with these kinds of questions, He isn't even Kinky but fully understands.
Hypotension is not a medical need? Well golly gee, Wally.....thats news to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypotension

Hypoglycemia is not a medical condition? Well dayyy-um.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia


Both of these issues are totally preventable with fluid/food intake. If ignored and the person just went to sleep a serious medical issue could result.

If you don't believe me...ask your doctor [:)]



That's Cute holly, you really need to re-read the FIRST Post, and you will see why NEITHER of those things were possible.

Going to Sleep, would have not been a problem.

What you are suggesting is that a child should be taken to the Doctor when they Sneeze.

Neither of those things were possibly happeneing, but even if they were, How could her Top have dealt with them anyway.

By the Time Hypoglycemia has taken place, a cookie isn't going to do shit, and if she has a History of Hypoglycemia she would be fully aware of what she needed and would have been sure to have had juice or a Glucose Tab with her, if this was a very first time occurance can you tell me how anyone would know what they hell was going on? Considering that to most people it looks like passing out anyway.

As for Hypotension..... she walked from the play party to the room.... I can check that one off my list.

Seriously....

Hey Maybe while she was in the play party she managed to swap blood with NCY Sewer Rat and managed to contract the Plague..... Should he have Taken her Blood and sent it to the Lab just to make sure she wasn't dying of the plague. I mean it is almost as possible as someone with hypotension walking from a play party to a room even if it was less that 20 yards away.

Come on people most of you are making up bullshit just to try and make this guy look like an asshole. READ THE STORY SHE TOLD... Nothing was wrong with her, she just expected him to do something he was not willing to do. Maybe this makes him less compassionate when he is woken up out of sleep to care for someone who should have been cared for by the people who played with her.

Obviously she had no Medical complications cause she is typing the story here, and none of us know how he would have reacted to her going into serious breathing complications.... perhaps he would have reacted differently...... but we don't know that wasn't happeneing, what we know is she was in subdrop, and was sounding retarded and wanting all sorts of things that the people who dropped her off were all more able to supply than the sleeping boyfriend was.

QSM



juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 10:57:36 AM)

quote:

he wanted a drink of water and she couldn't manage it? Go to sleep then and get a drink in the morning.


Wonders how many times you have experienced deep subspace where your body didn't work right....



NorthernGent -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 11:00:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

he wanted a drink of water and she couldn't manage it? Go to sleep then and get a drink in the morning.


Wonders how many times you have experienced deep subspace where your body didn't work right....



And of course you know the answer Julia...so why wonder and post about your musings....interesting as they are.

At no point did he say: "I'll take care of you"....so why did she expect it?



AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/14/2010 11:02:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

he wanted a drink of water and she couldn't manage it? Go to sleep then and get a drink in the morning.


Wonders how many times you have experienced deep subspace where your body didn't work right....


Another EXCELLENT reason why she should have made damn sure she clearly stated what she expected from her partner before running off to play with someone else without him being there.

Lets say the Top has NO IDEA what subspace is all about...... SHE DOES. So shouldn't the person with the most experience on the subject make sure there are failsafes in place?

QSM



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