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Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 5:34:11 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
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Hi all,

As I mentioned in another question, I imagine there's a minimum standard of 'Masterfulness' that a potential partner must meet in advance. I also imagine there are times, with some of you, where you test your Master, he let's it slide and then you say, "You don't ever have to take that from me, you know. It's ok to put me in my place, hard". Furthermore, there are proaably those amongst you who feel that it is absolutlely none of your business, as a subbie/slave, to give your Master any form of guidance.

But if, say, you fell in love with a vanilla feller, and he was willing to become a Dom, do you think you would you be a good teacher? Or even a willing one?

I should add, by way of background, I am NOT asking for myself; I've got the Dom spirit to the brim.

:)

Your comments and thoughts welcome, ladies.

Post #: 1

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 6:21:04 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

You're using the terms Dom and Master interchangeably. Which one do you mean?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 2

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 6:47:18 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
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I admit I'm new to all this.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 3

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 6:58:28 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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I guess that I have an issue with the word "willing". That implies that he's being led to be a Dom, and that he's okay with it.

If you expose a man to D/s and he realizes that he IS that way, excellent. But if it's a case of "Gee, I guess I could do that", he's not a Dom.

A Dom WANTS to be a Dom and once exposed to it, will take the initiative to learn. Someone who is "willing" and no more, would be at best a service Top, someone who will take the initiative in scenes only, because it pleases his partner.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 4

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 8:00:59 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I guess that I have an issue with the word "willing". That implies that he's being led to be a Dom, and that he's okay with it.

If you expose a man to D/s and he realizes that he IS that way, excellent. But if it's a case of "Gee, I guess I could do that", he's not a Dom.

A Dom WANTS to be a Dom and once exposed to it, will take the initiative to learn. Someone who is "willing" and no more, would be at best a service Top, someone who will take the initiative in scenes only, because it pleases his partner.

Fair enough, but it's not the willingness of the Dom to learn (which is a given), but rather the willingness of Subbies to teach, that I'm interested in.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 5

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 8:09:02 AM

esoclectica

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/9/2010
Status: offline

The similar question is were you born gay or did you choose to be gay. If a man is vanilla he can be trained to act as a dom in scenes, and for many women that would be enough. Truman Capote could be trained to use a flogger lol But if a woman is looking for 24/7 slavery then a vanilla man is simply not going to have the right attitude. The more deep the slavery the less well he will be able to pretend because his heart will not be in it.

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 6

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 8:13:15 AM

AsmodaisSin

Posts: 320
Joined: 7/28/2009
From: NOVA
Status: offline

When I first was exposed to the lifestyle, I was with a vanilla guy, and because I didn't fully appreciate my slaveness, I thought I help him be Masterish/Domish. Not so. We tried. A few times. I couldn't help it. He tried. he went through the motions. It's just not something that can be taught, Masterness. It's something that's deep within. -Shrugs.-

_____________________________

Something so symbolic seeps from silence.

(in reply to esoclectica)

Post #: 7

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 8:35:55 AM

CeriseNin

Posts: 286
Joined: 4/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AsmodaisSin

When I first was exposed to the lifestyle, I was with a vanilla guy, and because I didn't fully appreciate my slaveness, I thought I help him be Masterish/Domish. Not so. We tried. A few times. I couldn't help it. He tried. he went through the motions. It's just not something that can be taught, Masterness. It's something that's deep within. -Shrugs.-

Went through the same thing, but with a woman. She learned to top me in the bedroom, but she's couldn't master me in or out of it, and that was the disconnect for me. Great woman, it just didn't work out between us. I never felt submissive to her at all.

(in reply to AsmodaisSin)

Post #: 8

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 10:00:50 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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~fr~

It could probably be done, but why would you?

The amount of effort involved in developing him beyond the 'going through the motions' point is going to be on par with any other major personality change, and probably requires more than a little professional assistance (in the 'mental health professional' sense). While it is certainly possible to do amazing things with the human mind, some are not worth the effort in terms of payoff. I would consider it with someone who is already in an otherwise committed relationship that is falling apart due to this aspect of their chemistry, but not otherwise.

Perhaps "every man wants to be a tyrant while he fornicates," but that certainly does not hold true outside the bedroom, and it's generally best to respect that about people, even when they have some inclination to change.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to CeriseNin)

Post #: 9

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 10:26:21 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Hi all,

As I mentioned in another question, I imagine there's a minimum standard of 'Masterfulness' that a potential partner must meet in advance. I also imagine there are times, with some of you, where you test your Master, he let's it slide and then you say, "You don't ever have to take that from me, you know. It's ok to put me in my place, hard". Furthermore, there are proaably those amongst you who feel that it is absolutlely none of your business, as a subbie/slave, to give your Master any form of guidance.

But if, say, you fell in love with a vanilla feller, and he was willing to become a Dom, do you think you would you be a good teacher? Or even a willing one?

I should add, by way of background, I am NOT asking for myself; I've got the Dom spirit to the brim.

:)

Your comments and thoughts welcome, ladies.

I think you might be making this a bit more difficult than I believe it is. There's no secret forumla to being a dominant and if someone is interested in being a dominant and in bdsm, I wouldn't any longer describe them as vanilla. Would I take on a brand new dominant if I was single? Yes, if the rest of the factors that make up a successful relationship for me were present. Experience is not the endall that many people want to believe. Finding someone that is compatible, honorable, trustworthy, loving, caring and invokes feelings of submission in me is much more important and honestly much more difficult. The only hesitance I would have is that some of the technical play issues are not self-explanatory and I wouldn't be in the position to know everything about them, but I would make sure they would have the wisdom to learn that stuff in various ways including from another dom/me.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 10

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 10:48:44 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Hi all,

As I mentioned in another question, I imagine there's a minimum standard of 'Masterfulness' that a potential partner must meet in advance. I also imagine there are times, with some of you, where you test your Master, he let's it slide and then you say, "You don't ever have to take that from me, you know. It's ok to put me in my place, hard". Furthermore, there are proaably those amongst you who feel that it is absolutlely none of your business, as a subbie/slave, to give your Master any form of guidance.

But if, say, you fell in love with a vanilla feller, and he was willing to become a Dom, do you think you would you be a good teacher? Or even a willing one?

I should add, by way of background, I am NOT asking for myself; I've got the Dom spirit to the brim.

:)

Your comments and thoughts welcome, ladies.

I think you might be making this a bit more difficult than I believe it is. There's no secret forumla to being a dominant and if someone is interested in being a dominant and in bdsm, I wouldn't any longer describe them as vanilla.

Thanks for your reply, Laurell. It's not me overcomplicating things. My question was structured to guage the willingness of subbies to train trainable otherwise compatible partners to be Doms. It's just that everyone seems to want to discuss the touchy-feely non-BDSM stuff that is, frankly glaringly obvious. I KNOW you have to be a decent human being to make a relationship work.

What I DON'T know is how many women - like yourself - WOULD be willing to take on a new Dom, to spend the time required to teach him - and by that, I don't mean how to tie ropes or where to source bullwhips on Ebay.

quote:

Would I take on a brand new dominant if I was single? Yes, if the rest of the factors that make up a successful relationship for me were present.

Ok. That was really all I was asking. A series of "Yes I will take on a newly-minted Dom", or "No, he needs to show X or Y existing Dom trait". Some idea about the training process would have been nice, but that's all.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 11

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 10:53:23 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Jaybee, other than being open to suggestions, reading, experiencing and adapting along the way in accordance with both your own and your partner's preferences and desires, there is no "training". Decide what you would like a dynamic to look like. Decide what it is you would like to find in a partner. Find someone you are compatible with and then negotiate. There's no one way. You really can pick what you want personally as long as you can find a partner that agrees to that.

We ALL train each other on how to proceed every single time we enter into a new relationship. Experience is often only as good as the person you are with.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 8/11/2010 10:54:27 AM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 12

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 11:04:13 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

I'm not a big believer in the genetic theory of dominance. Yup, I think most people could be trained to be at least a credible dominant if they were willing.

Insofar as annoying Carol's subly sensibilities, I asked her. Granted, for her this is theoretical since she doesn't want a master. She just wants a dominant male and then whatever it is that he wants. But if she DID take a sudden desire to being a slave she would have no compunctions about "training" him. Her exact answer...

Why would that bother me? I have to train every single lover how to please me. Why should that be any different?"

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Jaybeee)

Post #: 13

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 11:08:52 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
It could probably be done, but why would you?

Well, Carol would do this for the same reasons I would with a slave. In both our estimations, it is extremely hard to find an appropriate mate just in the general human categories. If we found such a person it would be WELL worthwhile to spend the time training them. Much like it's worth taking the time to polish diamonds. In fact, for both of us, we'd prefer to take the raw material and polish it ourselves because it avoids a lot of the entirely counter-productive memes that float around in BDSM-land. Odds of me taking a slave that already thought she was a slave approach zero.

If I was selecting a new mate, it is likely she would be of a generally submissive personality. Carol's theoretical new mate would be of a generally dominant personality. The base material would be there.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 14

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 11:11:49 AM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline

I don't believe you choose what to be. I believe you discover what you are.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 15

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 11:21:20 AM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff
I don't believe you choose what to be. I believe you discover what you are.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs... even if they fly in the face of the entire human experience. For me personally, I've trained a few too many leaders to buy into the idea that you cannot train dominance. For most of those, I had to train them to be more assertive, more confident, more willing to take personal risks, more willing to stand and be counted, etc. etc.

Most people can learn most things at least passably well in my experience. Humans, as a species, are nothing if not adaptable.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 16

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 11:23:49 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
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Oh, I WILL decide what I want, and she will be molded to comply to that. I already have a pretty good template as to what I want from a Subbie, although I don't YET have much of a roadmap to instill all of it (but that's what the 'Ask a Master' section is for!), I will devise a series of obedience exercises. As an inexperienced Dom myself It may simply take longer, or the path less smooth, but she'll get that I'm the boss, she does what I say, and she'll be delighted with it. Trust me on it.

But at some point, purely as icing on the cake, I WILL be asking her, "Darling, think about this question, and it's NOT a trick question; what aspects about how I rule you do you think could be improved? Ie, more spankings? More orders in public? Less questions like this asking what you want? etc. Think about it and let me know"

Now, just as I would have to make more effort to mold a girl who had not yet considered subhood, than one who did, I would have thought that the converse was also true, ie that a girl who gave ACTIVE thought to being a sub/slave would also have considered the possibility she would need to guide a brand new Dom on how to be more dominant.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 17

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 11:25:07 AM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
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I see a difference between leadership and dominance,

It is almost cliché how many "people who are "powerful" in their jobs wish to be dominated in their personal/sexual lives.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 18

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 12:36:48 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

Ahhhh...

I view it differently. I see it as the same thing, but in different spheres -- a different application of the same base tools.

EDITED TO ADD:
So then more specifically, I am certain I could train most people to do what I do with Carol to some reasonable quality level. Whether what I do is "dominance" or not is certainly open to anyone's individual interpretation of "dominance".

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/11/2010 12:39:17 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 19

RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? - 8/11/2010 12:50:01 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

its a question of wanting to and if you want to then youre probably one in the making already.

if you dont want to then youre not going to bother.

edited to add: IMO

< Message edited by lally2 -- 8/11/2010 12:51:57 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 20

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