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More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 8:05:37 PM

KittenWithaTwist

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Recently during a late-night, can't sleep, tv watching extravaganza, I came across an award ceremony for GLADD (Gays and Lesbians against Defamation and, um, Degradation, I think). They were presenting an award to Melissa Etheridge, and when she came up to accept her award, she expressed the need for as many people to come out as possible. Because, she said, that when people come out of the closet, they force more people to accept that being gay is acceptable.

A few people here have read my angsty coming out story before. I originally came out by accident due to a snooping parent. The revealing of my sexual orientation (ever fluxuating, but at the time, I was a sub masochist) tore down the close bond I had with my mother and thrust me out into the great wide world with two hundred dollars in my pocket and some not-so-trustworthy friends. My cat, Nigel, also came along for the ride.

What did Coming Out do for me? It didn't help my parents to accept BDSM or D/s or S&M as a valid form of sexual orientation. It didn't make me wealthier or more cultured or give me more freedom. I was suddenly open to anger, resentment, frustration, and contempt. I was broke. I was taken advantage of. I even lost the love of my cat, Nigel.

So, why do some communities feel that Coming Out and expressing yourself as an individual who doesn't have sex the old fashioned way is the end all, be all human experience? Why is it important to come out? Why do we feel the need to be accepted, and what happens to us, mentally, when we are not?

In my own opinion, based on my experience and the experiences of a few friends, I don't believe that coming out is important. In fact, I'd prefer that people did not come out at all. I never would have come out to my parents if I hadn't been forced to. I don't come out to my friends or discuss the intimate details of my relationship. If I were gay, I would not lie and call my girlfriend a boyfriend, but neither would I stand up at work and say, "I'm GAY. Deal with it!" Because, I can pretty much bet, that they are less likely to give a crap if I don't bring it up.

So what do you think?

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

Post #: 1

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 8:12:09 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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Interesting POV thanks for sharing....my own coming out bdsm story, started out awful (my ex outed me to my folks) and ended up great. Maybe there is a silver lining you have not seen yet?

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 4/19/2006 8:14:12 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 8:38:32 PM

Proprietrix

Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
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I never had to "come out" because I was never closeted to begin with. So I can't really comment to the "coming" out part. I do however, require that my slaves are out.

I am the kind of person who just simply refuses to live a life in which I have to hide or pretend or lie about my life. I refuse to put defining lines between my "social identity" and the "real me". I'm the real me all the time, everywhere. I don't want to be anyone's dirty little secret, nor do I want to have to keep my partner(s) my dirty little secret. I want to be able to place a picture of myself anywhere I please, even the internet. I want to be able to have the personal freedom to wear my lifestyle clothing outside the confines of my house, even if I might see someone I know. I don't want to have to "watch what I say" around my family, or wear certain clothes to cover certain marks.

I simply want to be me.

And I have all of that and I have all of those opportunities and liberties and freedoms because of my choice to be out. It has nothing to do with societal acceptance of a sub-culture. I really don't give a shit about advancing the cause of lifestylers everywhere or any such bs. I just want to be myself, live my life with honesty, and not feel like the moral police are constantly looking over my shoulder.

That's why being out is important to me. And that's why I require it in my slaves.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 3

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 9:09:47 PM

Whiterabbit0117

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Joined: 3/15/2006
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I understand Melissa's point. There is a lot more depth in the gay experience so I'll stick to it for examples.

Most homophiles have problem with "them" When they discover that among "them" are friends, family, heroes, views start to soften. There is a real person and not just "them" It is a lot easier to hate "them" than drinking buddy George.

When the gays were in the closet, they had no power. Only by coming out, being counted, becoming active, getting involved did the lifestyle start to win battles against oppression, abuse, and discrimination.

Of course it is a personal decision. As your example shows not all were personally successful, some paid and are still paying a great personal price.

In many ways the het lifestyle is where the gays were 30 years ago. Fairly large in number, but invisible, powerless, fair game.

_____________________________

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's a powerful thing, to be at the edge of something, to be at the edge of human ability"
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(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 4

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 10:13:23 PM

subtlesubie

Posts: 138
Joined: 1/5/2006
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BDSM or whatever you care to call it, is not a lifestyle. It is a sexual prediliction. There is no closet to come out of.

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 5

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 10:34:29 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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Subtle- I don't buy in to the "lifestyle" thing, but it -is- an alternative means of livings ones life. That is, it is one not done by the majority. As such, it is easily relatable to non-het sexualities. Especially given that a large number of indidividuals involved in BDSM are of non-het orientations. (not all, of course)."Coming out" is a perfectly good descriptor of what it is like, and having come out as both a queer person AND a BDSM person I think that the process is similar.

For me, I needed to come out. I needed to come out so I could stop deniying my orientation to myself. It was more about personal acceptance than societal acceptance, though it had that side effect. I have chosen not to explicitly come out to my Dad, not because I'm scared he'll dislike it, because he honestly doesn't want to know. He doesn't even want to know I have vanilla sex. I am ok with that, so I leave well enough alone. I don't self-censor in that I've talked about girls I've dated around him, I just don't need to sit down and have the "Dad, I'm not straight" conversaiton.

I undertstand the viewpoint that says that coming out isn't necessary and isn't always good too though. It seems like sometimes we're obsessed with self-revelation (I think there was an article in Bust...or maybe Curve...about this a couple months ago)

Meh. Either way, -I- needed to come out. I believe in visibility for me, and am not a particularly vulnerable target. For others, I htink there are very real risks associated with coming out and that it isn't always the best choice.

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RE: More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 10:35:34 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlesubie

BDSM or whatever you care to call it, is not a lifestyle. It is a sexual prediliction. There is no closet to come out of.

I disagree. For a lot of us it very definitely is a lifestyle. Especially for those living 24/7 M/s relationships.

What makes you say that it's strictly sexual?

Cin

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(in reply to subtlesubie)

Post #: 7

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/19/2006 10:56:59 PM

DigitBox

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Joined: 3/18/2006
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I haven't told my parents or other family about my fetish/BDSM activities. To me it's really none of their business. I don't ask them what they do in their relationships.

I did my share of comming out as both bisexual and transexual. Being bisexual was widely accepted by pretty much all family, even my grandparents who kind of got the message that I wasn't like normal boys (due to lack of chasing girls). Comming out as transsexual freaked out my mom but other family didn't have a big problem. I've been actively blocked from telling my grandparents by other family. I've been slowly erasing my male identity around them so that they get the message. It's not hard when the nurses for my grandfather keep asking family members if I'm a visiting granddaughter and I'm in a sweater and jeans with no make up.

Anyhow it's weird how family can take certain news and not be phased by it but then freak out over something else.

Some people I know socially who I told I was into fetish/BDSM were initially a little freaked out. They seem to relax after a time. But because of that inital reaction I've decided people generally are better off not knowing.

Most of the time I basically approach things from the point of view that disclosing to people about my 'controversial' aspects is just going to make my life more complicated.

I have outted myself on occasion though just to combat the ignorance of someone. One of my friends was trashing another person she knows because that person held fetish parties. She didn't like getting invited to those. When she started trashing the other person I just said that I was into that kind of activity, but I just keep it to myself and don't go to parties. My friend was shocked but then she didn't bring it up again and we still hang out together so I kind of made the point with her that she was just making assumptions of what kind of person is into kink.

Dispelling the myth of what kind of person does those kinds of things is what Whiterabbit0117 mentioned. In some ways that works, but at the same time if your living situation leaves you vulnerable and in danger then it's best to keep it a secret until you can get free of that situation.

With my first fetish/BDSM encounter my mom was just digging and digging for answers on what I was doing when I was with the guy I was meeting up with. It was creepy just how much parents can try to invade the lives of their children even when said children are well past the age of consent.

Um... okay I'm not sure if I'm making sense. I'm getting tired so I'm sure I'm starting to talk in circles.

< Message edited by DigitBox -- 4/19/2006 11:05:14 PM >

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 8

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 12:07:28 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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Coming out is no big deal if the people around you don't think it's a big deal but there are so many people who live in conservative communitites where I can understand that coming out is a big deal.

It would be easy for me to say people should come out, I've never had a problem. The most I'm subject to is being the butt of a few good humored jokes from friends. My parents tend to roll their eyes and look at the ceiling. My play partner is Japanese and her friends say they are jealous at her openess.

I think it's a case of different strokes for different folks and I wouldn't judge anyone for the stand they take.

(in reply to DigitBox)

Post #: 9

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 12:32:33 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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It's a personal choice. It works for some, doesn't work for others. I choose long ago to be true to myself and come out to friends and family. Himself and I also came out last weekend to his daughter. If there are people who have issues with it, there is little I can do about it but I choose to reflect the real me. What's the saying? I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not? ::something like that anyway:: As for the whole it's about sex it's not about sex.. it's a lifestyle, it's not a lifestyle.. those are questions for another thread. ;)

Celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 3:25:05 AM

RiotGirl

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i outed myself and Himself was already outted. Tho it was accepted by his father as his father is into BDSM as well.

i've outted myself. Many different times as my family is all over the world. Only because i didnt really care. they could either accept it or not and since it was apart of my relationship and i was excited about it, i wanted to share. So i did.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 11

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 3:31:41 AM

Dustyn

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Joined: 4/5/2006
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quote:

they could either accept it or not and since it was apart of my relationship and i was excited about it, i wanted to share.

This whole concept of "coming out" implies a subconscious acceptance that what we do is somehow "wrong" or "not normal". It's who we are. If someone asks, then I tell them and vice versa. What I do is my own business, but I also refuse to shrink away from questions, if they are asked sincerely.

But that's just me.

- Dustyn

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RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 3:39:58 AM

Smythe

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Joined: 12/31/2005
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I don't see the correlation between gays and BDSM people when we talk about coming out as a necessary political stance. We can marry each other, we can adopt children. it would be nice to be more accepted, but not necessary in order to live our lives.

For me, "coming out" is all about the other person. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, or give them more information than they want to have. My closest friends know all about me ; some family members know. But my decision to tell is not about me, it's about them.

Smythe

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(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

Post #: 13

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 3:46:59 AM

MsBlackheart

Posts: 54
Joined: 7/27/2005
From: Memphis TN
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If you have paid a high price for being what you are, it's more likely or possible that you'd want to be out. You *paid* for that and you want to get full value.

I was pretty much tortured in junior high for being that kind of girl; definitely different with the early signs of being one of those exotic sort of women who grow up to be what I am now. It wasn't active kink back then, and I was still a virgin, but I had the aura of a highly sexual and adventurous person. I learned early on about people's varied reactions to my being "different", all too often negative reactions over something I couldn't hide, and learned to thrive on being genuinely who I am. I built my own world populated by people like me and find that I know instinctively who I can and can't enlighten. My mom says I got it from her. My dad doesn't want to know and is slightly ashamed of having brought a slut into the world. It's okay.

I do find that I'm perceived as a threat to those who have to remain tightly closeted, though I've never outted anyone and would never. My new boy, even, has a tough time with this as he learns to balance his old life and his new life with me. I guard his privacy like a tiger, knowing that some people in his life would be genuinely hurt by the knowledge, which in turn would hurt him, even if for some it's just the fact that I'm 20 years his senior (another thread, perhaps?).

So yeah, I paid for the privilege of being out and living this way. I love it. I love being free. Genuine.

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(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

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RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 5:18:14 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist
So, why do some communities feel that Coming Out and expressing yourself as an individual who doesn't have sex the old fashioned way is the end all, be all human experience? Why is it important to come out? Why do we feel the need to be accepted, and what happens to us, mentally, when we are not?

I've never seen it expressed as "a be all and end all." But, it does do a valuable service to the larger community. People hate and fear what they don't know. Look at how gays are even now being pictured by the Far Right. It's a lot harder to sell that image when the word "gay" means "Bob and Harry in 12B who helped me get my car started during the big snow" or "Pete and Joe who have such a nice garden down the street." Positive images in real life go a long way to trump the verbal images of demagogues.

Also the gay rights marches have gone a long way to change the minds of politicians who, while not being the brightest bulbs on the tree, can count. They don't see "dirty gays" down there in the street; they see "voters."

I don't recall anyone ever guaranteeing that being out will make your life better. In fact, most times, it comes with a price. It certainly has in my life. But it does make the world a little bit better.

That's a balance that everyone has to weigh for himself or herself.

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(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

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RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 6:04:18 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I understand what activists are going for and I actually agree with a lot of their ideals and motivations.

But coming out will always be about each individual making a choice about their own lives. And doing something "for the greater good" doesn't hold much water when you're talking about the people and life you have to live every day.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 6:36:56 AM

philosophy

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..i could come out and be loud and proud about enjoying whips and chains etc............mind you, then i wouldnt be able to do the work i love, have trained for and have a talent for. Because narrow minded, but nonetheless real, attitudes of others would prevent it.
While the world is as judgemental as it is, it simply isnt practical for some individuals to be 'out', neither is it particulary supportive to have it implied (by the person mentioned in the OP) that to not be out is, in some way, a betrayal. however, to all those who have found a way to live their life and wear a collar and leash to the shop for milk, i say well done. Wish it could be like that for everyone.....

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 17

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 7:03:29 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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there are many points here i can relate to.

as far as the 'coming out' philosophy that has been presented, i think Proprietrix has hit the nail right on the head [while dustyn also has a point, where the event in theory implies we believe we are wrong - thus by placing ourselves into the closet]

i find it very important to be me, and have the world know me, for who i really am, not a sugar coated girl that makes their life easier b/c that way they dont have to think about the 'darker' aspects of life. many, i know, will think i am, mentally fucked. most of my close friends who i have told, their conclusion is always 'i am just worried for you is all'. be that as it may, it is not going to change the decisions i have made for my life.

a lot like MsBlackheart i wasnt 'norm' in high school - people knew i was different, just by the way i carried myself. after i turned 16, my black clothes and studed leather slowly left my wardrobe, and cordoruey [sp?!] and denim replaced it, along with cute cuffed T's. i was absorbing myself into society just to make my life easier, but as i did this, i denied who i was and shoved my self farther and farther into a dark pit. i never saw the corrolation [until literally JUST now] between my precieved normality, and my true depression.

now that i have started to embrace who i am, and not sugar coat anything to make it easier for someone else, life is much better. i am me, they dont like it, they move on. they do like it, they embrace me and i feel even more proud to be honest, and continue to tell another person about my lifestyle.

you dont HAVE to come out, and for many people, yes, it can make life worse, but i would rather not live a lie, i prefer not to decieve anyone, because it just makes things more complicated in the end.

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 4/20/2006 7:04:48 AM >

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Post #: 18

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 7:06:52 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
you dont HAVE to come out, and for many people, yes, it can make life worse, but i would rather not live a lie, i prefer not to decieve anyone, because it just makes things more complicated in the end.

There's a difference between coming out, living a lie, and being yourself.

Unless I'm going to an event, I look like anyone else. I don't have any collars, tattoos, symbols, nada. I don't even wear kinky tshirts unless it's to an event.

But I'm not hiding, I'm not lying. I'm exceedingly comfortable with myself and my orientation AND how I operate within different contexts.

Wearing a collar or dressing "weird" doesn't make someone more comfortable with themselves or "more out." It just means that they enjoy it and find it to be what's best for them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 19

RE: More on Coming Out - 4/20/2006 7:10:17 AM

WyrdRich

Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
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And when some unsuspecting parent has to explain to their 7 year old why that man is wearing a dog collar???? That doesn't expand our acceptance, it increases the hostility. Making the vanilla world a non-consensual part of your scene is just plain selfish and wrong in my opinion and those who insist on doing it quickly lose my support and my friendship.

Be who you are but respect the rights of people who aren't you.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 20

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