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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:10:22 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

once again i read these posts and all i see is that you all think that since a transsexual is not their actual gender.... but instead is and always will be the gender they were assigned at birth.... that i think is hugely wrong.... you guys can slice it up however you want... but it is still a big ole shit right on my plate


Although your posts continue to be amazingly charming, it is shocking how after 12 pages you have remained totally clueless that others have a right to feel as they do.

You have been given many, many clear and respectful replies and yet you remain argumentative and closed minded.

I have reached a point of boredom now, so carry on and be sure to keep giving us more creative metaphors such as shit on a plate, so you keep being at least somewhat entertaining to those remaining on the thread.

(in reply to sweetlindsey84)
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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:11:14 PM   
CeriseNin


Posts: 286
Joined: 4/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

ok so in the spirit of educating.....erise what your saying is hurtful.... not because of your opinion but because of your false use of facts....calling a transwoman a biological man is hurtful..... you don't even say what a biological man is.... you just lay your dog crap out there and accept me to be ok with it ?

I don't care if you're OK with it or not, dear.

(in reply to sweetlindsey84)
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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:11:54 PM   
sweetlindsey84


Posts: 103
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		yes sir red i sure will guy

(in reply to sexyred1)
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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:21:39 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

Hello Friends,

I am interested in how you define a gender. Specifically, I am interested in how people with strong orientations (straight/gay/lesbian) feel about when the line between gender roles and biological sex start to blur.

Biological sex being defined as which sex organs are possessed.
Gender roles being defined as activities which carry a stereotypical propensity to one gender or the other.

If you are a straight male, can you be attracted to a sufficiently feminine person who has a penis?
If you are a gay female attracted to more butch partners, how does that differ from being attracted to a man?

At what point for you, if any, does the reproductive organ stop mattering? When is a female so masculine she figures to you as a man? When is a man so feminine he is calculated as a girl?

Many will say "I fall in love with the person, not the body." That is fine too.

WOW. I see I should have gotten into this thread before it reached 12 pages. lol I haven't read the whole thread, far from it, but here's my answer. I'm bisexual (no strong orientation in ONE direction or the other) and if someone considers herself, say, a woman, I'll relate to her that way, regardless of what "parts" she has. I don't consider gender roles or a person's boy/girl "parts" when I relate to them. I relate to them however they want to be related to. When it comes to actully having sex w/ someone, however, whatever "parts" they have, that's who they are to me sexually. Personally, I normally like my men masculine and my women feminine if I'm having a "relationship" with one or the other. I would definitely consider being attracted to a butch woman different than being attracted to a man. If I want a man, I will be attracted to a man. But hey, that's just me. I know trans people, hetero people, gays/lesbians, and bi people, and they're all people to me.

~sweetsub~

< Message edited by sweetsub1957 -- 8/15/2010 6:29:40 PM >

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:21:51 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Based on your puerile way of communicating, I doubt you have heard the quote "The lady doth protest too much, methinks. ..."

I just realized this must be the genesis of your issue; this thread has obviously hit too close below the belt for you, dear.

In case you have never read Shakespeare, Google is available if you want to educate yourself.





< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 8/15/2010 6:22:54 PM >

(in reply to sweetlindsey84)
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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:22:36 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

But I can see why and where it happens.

Absolutely. But I can also see a person thinking he shared a commonality, an understanding of where he's come from with a friend, and then finding out that this friend had wanted that commonality badly enough to lie, and still feeling hurt by that lie.

It's a messy issue.


It is and I can totally see that Otters. It's not an easy situation at all. I don't see anyone here that is unsympathetic, hateful or not cognizant of that fact other than simplylindsey who seems to be doing so only out of a passion and clear emotional response to the topic which may also be understandable if not contrary to what she seems to want.

Because of my own skeletons, lying is to me is something that's reprehensible. If I was dating someone and found out that they left this out, I probably wouldn't have as much problem with the gender issue (we're assuming that I'm already kneedeep into this relationship afterall) as the lie and that would be a dealbreaker. That's the problem.

I do have to say that I don't care about the gender or even hidden issues of the people that are casual friends and not intimate partners and I find that response really odd even where they have gone out of their way to create a detailed false history. I would hope they know that they can tell me and I will still accept them as a friend but would I unfriend them for this? Nah, why would it matter to me? One of my best friends from graduate school told me years later she was gay and always wanted to tell me but was afraid. My response to that was, I'm so sorry you felt the need to lie to me, I don't care, I suspected for a long time. I wish you would have known that I would have accepted you either way and by the way, I'm bi, want another drink? She said, most people I've told didn't and I lost friends. I don't get that, I really don't.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 8/15/2010 6:29:59 PM >

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:23:55 PM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		BTW:  In case people didn't know...the term "Cisgender" that has been used several times in this thread is a term from psychology to identify a person who feels no disconnect between their birth gender and their sense of themselves. 

There are common aspects of what in the trans community are known as "Cisgender privilege".  These are common rights given to Cisgender people, but are often not given to transgendered people. 

If you want to see a list of items that the trans community generally considers to be encompassed by Cisgender privilege, there is a Wiki - http://www.t-vox.org/index.php?title=Cisgender_Privilege


< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 8/15/2010 6:29:35 PM >

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:24:01 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

yes sir red i sure will guy


Aww, isn't that cute. You called red a guy. How witty.

Maybe if you hadn't been trying to be so cute, you might have gotten the point she was trying to make.

I am not sure why you can't understand why a lesbian would have a problem with her girlfriend having a penis. If she wanted a penis in her bed, she wouldn't be gay. She would just go out and date men. Life would be so much easier that way. But that is not how it works.


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(in reply to sweetlindsey84)
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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:24:11 PM   
ModTwentyOne


Posts: 2504
Status: offline 		Just a little note to let you all know that I'm working my way thru the thread, and have deleted a number of personal attacks, as well as posts that quote personal attacks.  Let's keep it civil please.

Thank you.

Mod21

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:24:29 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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Joined: 11/15/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne
I find this an extremely sad story. To be clear, the person in question was your friend. Identified as male. You had no romantic interest in this person. I read this story and I'm not at all concerned with your sense of Betrayal. I'm too distracted by the heartbreaking idea of a FTM remembering childhood feelings of inadequate genitalia and dreams of growing up to be like the men in porn. I cannot agree that you were entitled, as a friend, to the individual's life story. The fact that you apparently consider "male bonding" achieved under the false pretense of possessing a penis since birth to be a violation akin to romantic intimacy achieved under false pretense is odd. You must have an unusual circle of male friends if none of the bonding involves hyperbole and tales of questionable truth value. Maybe your former friend really was an untrustworthy person, but the details you've shared aren't very compelling.



Call it whatever you like, I was lied to.

My circle of friends did not include people I was THAT comfortable with about those subjects and discovering that not only was a lied to, but I didn't actually share the same history. They MADE UP their history, they LIED about things that never happened to them.

If the individual had been born male I still would have felt betrayed.

This is the problem I have with all this bullshit, it's the way you justify what is essentially LYING. Dishonesty, in my book is wrong regardless of gender or genetalia.

Lying is Lying.

Before you quote someone you might want to find out how they see Transgender issues. I may not be marching capital hill fighting the good fight, but I know that I accept them and try my hardest to understand them the way they want to be understood, but I make it clear that I don't like being lied to.

In reality that friend I had all those years back did more damage than good, I am now suspisious of certain situations, I carry that betrayal with me all the time, and it has stunted certain abilities I have had in trust when it comes to the TS/TV/TG/CD world. I am aware of it so I work past it, but I would be lying if it didn't come up when the discussion of honesty is involved.

QSM

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:24:32 PM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
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I don't think educating herself is high on lindsey's list Red. ;) That's one angry person, whatever their gender is, although I am pretty sure you hit the nail on the head in regards to that one too.

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(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:26:31 PM   
CeriseNin


Posts: 286
Joined: 4/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

In my own experience, once I finally came to grips with actually embracing my female side and no longer oppressing it, I did disclose - completely from the start.  I believe that decision served me.

But...I think had I known at that time the things I know now - the very real danger present in being transgendered (96 murders in 2009, a more than 100% increase from 2008)...people who disclose being targeted and assaulted or killed specifically because they are trans...that would have given me pause.  I think my decision would have been the same, but I can certainly see where some might have real fear around it all.

Your safety is certainly important. I'm very sorry about the position disclosure puts you on, and I do sympathize with the reasons not to. It's not a black and white issue at all.

(in reply to OttersSwim)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:27:11 PM   
sweetlindsey84


Posts: 103
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		lol so if i am trans does that make me a LIAR!!! lmao

(in reply to Aynne88)
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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:29:24 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88



I don't think educating herself is high on lindsey's list Red. ;) That's one angry person, whatever their gender is, although I am pretty sure you hit the nail on the head in regards to that one too.


Hey Aynne, you are right. It really is amazing how angry that person is and how cute it is that they call anyone who disagrees with them Sir, regardless of sex.

I really do think I finally got at the truth. No one who does not identify with a situation could ever be this pissed off without having experienced the same prejudice.

What is a shame is that there have been some very honest people posting on this topic, which is highly sensitive, despite this one fly in the ointment.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 8/15/2010 6:31:42 PM >

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:30:58 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

lol so if i am trans does that make me a LIAR!!! lmao


Depends do you lie about it?

If you do then Yes you are. If you tell stories about things that never happened so that you can bond with someone then yes you are a Liar.

If you fail to disclose your sexual identity knowing that it is not going to be an assumed understanding and present yourself as a gender that you feel, and believe you are and yet fail to disclose that the plumbing does not match the fixtures then yes in a way you are indeed lying.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:31:07 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I only hope the current 'master' in Georgia is aware.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:31:14 PM   
sweetlindsey84


Posts: 103
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		no i don't call everyone just you dude just you so stop personally attacking me K?

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:32:41 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry Dude, I will stop commenting on your posts. Kiss!

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:33:25 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

lol so if i am trans does that make me a LIAR!!! lmao


Only if you lie about it.

You do understand what a lie is right?


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(in reply to sweetlindsey84)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 6:34:40 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I only hope the current 'master' in Georgia is aware.


Aware that she is posting on this thread or aware that she is transgendered?


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Profile   Post #: 220
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