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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:34:24 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

it doesn't make you bad not to want to date one it makes you bad when you say you don't want to date one because they are really men..... that's insulting


Not really.... It is just a matter of preference... Why are you allowed to make a choice but they aren't?

QSM

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:35:30 PM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

it doesn't make you bad not to want to date one it makes you bad when you say you don't want to date one because they are really men..... that's insulting


No it isn't.


What's insulting is being told what to think by someone who doesn't know me at all.

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:39:49 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		This is an interestingly personal question to me, and one which I shouldn't probably chime in on, but will anyway. ;)

I quite openly admit that I do love me some "girly boy".  The more effeminate a male, the better.  Androgyny is hot, in my mind.  That should, however, NOT be confused with "flaming queen", they're just annoying as hell.

That being said, I recently ran across a friend who had fallen off the face of the earth for a couple years.  Yes, I will admit also that I was very attracted to him at one point.  Well, when I ran into him again, he was "Rachel".  Well... my word... that's a bit of a change.  Now, he isn't he, but rather she.  Although she does still have male genitalia, she identifies as female, has a female chest (hormone therapy has been quite kind to her), and is working toward reassignment surgery.  Now... is she attractive still?  VERY!  And she seems truly happy for the first time since I've known her.  Am I attracted to her still?  In a way, but, at the same time, I know that the physical attraction is diminishing and probably won't be there after her surgery.

Why?  Because although I like my males to be extremely feminine, I still like males.  Just how I'm wired.  Don't know why, don't care why to be honest.

As far as, however, if there should be disclosure about something like that.  Of course.  If you love someone, you love them.  Love and attraction are not the same thing.  And if you no longer love someone because of a simple fact like that, then I would have to question how much "love" was there before, and not just physical attraction.  Did I ever "love" my friend?  Yes, as a friend.  Nothing more.  And that love will be there even if she decides to have goat genitals grafted to her forehead, no matter how strange that may be (don't worry, I sincerely doubt that will happen).  If I had loved her in a romantic way, that wouldn't go away either, although the physical attraction would. 

Another example, if I found a very attractive, "girly boy" who used to be female and we cliqued and blah blah blah, I would fully expect to be notified that "Oh, I used to be a she.".  If I'm in a relationship with a person, there has to be trust.  And if they don't trust that I would be able to accept that, thus must keep it secret, then I should think the relationship needs to end right then and there. 


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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:40:13 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

it doesn't make you bad not to want to date one it makes you bad when you say you don't want to date one because they are really men..... that's insulting
You are such a silly girl. 

If your logic holds water, the fact that men who don't date fat chicks refuse to go out with me is insulting.

The fact I don't find blonde men attractive is insulting.

Folks who hate my freckles are insulting.

Women who won't date someone shorter than them are insulting.

So, I take it you are willing to date someone no matter their size, sex, religion, personal grooming habits, number of teeth, education, number of toes, etc etc.

Or is it ok to not date them as long as you don't tell anyone?

Are you capable of telling a male from a female?

Please help me understand your logic.  I am but a dumbass sir.

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:43:13 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		J.A.S. ...
How anyone could hate your freckles is beyond even my nearly unlimited comprehension!
How anyone could hate freckles in general is inconceivable to me.... ;)


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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:43:16 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

If your logic holds water, the fact that men who don't date fat chicks refuse to go out with me is insulting.



Oh come off it.

I'm not sure if you guys are all deliberately being obtuse or not, but that's not what she's saying. She's saying:

You don't want to date her because she's trans? Fine.
You equate being trans with being a man? Not fine.

Is that clearer?

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:44:58 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah it's clear....... is it ok if I can't get my head around the fact she USED to be a man?

Is it ok if she does not disclose it and later, when I find out I am unhappy?

Actually, it is ok with me if it's not ok...:)

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:48:03 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

If your logic holds water, the fact that men who don't date fat chicks refuse to go out with me is insulting.



Oh come off it.

I'm not sure if you guys are all deliberately being obtuse or not, but that's not what she's saying. She's saying:

You don't want to date her because she's trans? Fine.
You equate being trans with being a man? Not fine.

Is that clearer?
And I am saying that, to me, even if you are trans, I still see you as a man.  And, whether she or you like that, it is my opinion on the matter, and it is fine.

What I see her saying is, if anyone has a differing opinion than her, they are a moron.  She is preaching tolerance while not practicing it at all.  I ain't buying her thoughts being more correct than mine. 

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:48:37 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Yeah it's clear....... is it ok if I can't get my head around the fact she USED to be a man?

Is it ok if she does not disclose it and later, when I find out I am unhappy?

I don't know-you'd have to ask her. But as far as I can tell what's upsetting her is less your potential distress and more the equation of men with MtF women.

quote:

Actually, it is ok with me if it's not ok...:)

Well colour me unsurprised-you're the king of self-actualisation, you are :P

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:49:33 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		Thank you for noticing!

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:51:44 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

And I am saying that, to me, even if you are trans, I still see you as a man.  And, whether she or you like that, it is my opinion on the matter, and it is fine.

And I'm saying that's fine, but deliberately misunderstanding her position and implying that she's saying nobody is allowed to have preferences is, IMO, not fine.

quote:

I ain't buying her thoughts being more correct than mine. 

Neither am I, particularly. But she has a right to her thoughts too.

Maybe with a little less name-calling attached, but hey, nobody is perfect and this is a touchy subject.

This was never going to be a nice thread.

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:52:04 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Wow.... well, everyone needs a hobby.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:56:08 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have been a motherfucker.

Currently I am not.


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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:58:07 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

also if someone doesn't like trans well ya know that's fine..... problem is these people use hateful logic to justify their decision.... that is why people are angry....... sooo check yourself dude


They dont need logic, nor do they need to justify their decision. Just as some people wouldn't date me because I have small breasts, others because I am too intelligent, not pretty enough, not submissive enough...I would not date a transgender person because it is not a preference that I have. Get over it. This isn't a slight, it's just how we are wired as people. They aren't hating on you, they aren't saying you're horrible, they aren't refusing to accept you for what you are. They just aren't going to date you.

Otters I would definitely buy you dinner. I would refer to you as whatever you desired. I would respect you because I think you are a person worthy of respect by the manner in which I have come to know you on the boards here. I would absolutely accept you as you are. I still would not date you and that doesn't come remotely close to making me a republican or close-minded. It is what it is. I'm sorry it hurts you. We all have preferences and they aren't so easy to just change.

Someone making a thread and saying there is no wrong answer and inviting true responses then having others come in and personalizing the responses and making them something they are not and throwing a hissy fit is just ridiculously juvenile.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 8/14/2010 6:00:07 PM >

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 5:58:15 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Just another FBI report in my file.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 6:00:21 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hell I would by Otters dinner.

I would even dance.

No grinding though Otters!

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 6:07:01 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		What, I am not nice?


Did you see how nice I was to the pro dom dude?

I am fucking NICE!

Say it...... SAY IT!!!!!!

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 6:09:32 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff


Say it...... SAY IT!!!!!!

Don't boss me, or I won't let you down off that invisible St Andrews.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 6:10:17 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
quote:

I think it has been a good thread my self.

I didn't say it wouldn't be a good thread, I said it wouldn't be a *nice* thread. Significant difference :P


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYrLQYho5J8


_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/14/2010 6:10:47 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		HA!
You said it in your head!

I know these things.

I believe you just submitted to me.

Felt good didn't it!

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Profile   Post #: 100
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