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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:40:29 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

it is not a trans persons responsibility to educate cisgenders......


I disagree. As an individual who has lived on a number of society's fringes, I -do- recognize that, if I choose not to educate, I am condemning those who might otherwise become allies to remain in ignorance -- and giving those who are looking for an excuse to spread disinformation the ammunition to continue to do so. With that in mind, I believe that, for those of us who are outside the realm of the mainstream, regardless of the path, as much as possible we should be willing to educate and to explain. It -is- our role, and is part of the path of responsibility for the choices that we've made, IMO.

Calla


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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:43:40 PM   
sweetlindsey84


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quote:

choices that we've made, IMO.

Calla


it is not a choice to be trans.....

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:47:13 PM   
sweetlindsey84


Posts: 103
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Status: offline 		lmao your wrong and instead of admitting it you insult my age and say im obnoxious....awesome

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:47:21 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

so your saying that when you say something ignorant and hurtful to someone....it's not your fault but theirs because they didn't teach you? wow that is oozing with so much privilege it's sickening


This attitude complete boggles my mind. There is a point where people can say things in ignorance that are NOT intended to be hurtful, but they are. This kind of behavior can be gently re-directed with a little bit of education, and won't happen again, so YES, if someone says something ignorant and hurtful because they don't know any better, it ISN'T their fault... they don't know any better until someone _teaches_ them better... and if one of us who walk on the fringes decides that we're too "high and mighty" and "entitled" to have to take opportunities like this to educate, then YES, it -is- our fault when people remain ignorant.

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:48:44 PM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

lmao your wrong and instead of admitting it you insult my age and say im obnoxious....awesome


But sweetlindsey, you are obnoxious.

I am not wrong, you just don't have an open enough view to see that.

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:48:49 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

no it is not their responsibility..... it is your responsibility to not be ignorant lol no one has to teach anyone anything lmao

Then where exactly is the education supposed to come from?


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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:49:54 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84


quote:

choices that we've made, IMO.

Calla


it is not a choice to be trans.....


Again, I disagree -- it is -absolutely a choice. Regardless of whether it is the issue of gender, number of life-partners, whether and how we express our spiritual nature, etc., we -all- have the choice of whether to be true to ourselves or to conform to external expectations for who and what we present ourselves as. It is both a choice -and- a responsibility.

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:52:06 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

it is not a trans persons responsibility to educate cisgenders......


I disagree.

You don't change society by sitting back and expecting others to do the work for you.  As a minority group, we have to teach society how we want to be treated.  Transgendered people are in a struggle for civil rights and acceptance in society.  This isn't accomplished by sitting back and saying to people, "well, you should just know how to treat me". 

It would be great if society just embraced those who are different.  But human groups do not work that way.  History shows that quite distinctly and if you look at those groups of minorities who have experienced some success in society, you will see that every one of them "agitated and educated" for their rights and acceptance. 



THIS is the type of postings you have that make you someone that I respect and admire. It has not a thing to do with your gender. Having an expectation that people will know something that's foreign to them is a bit silly. Having an expectation that people will dislike and reject you may be due to the fact that there's alot of that out there, I get that, but in this thread I see alot of hostility that I don't think helps the communication and education that is necessary and just seems incredibly hostile and juvenile. I'm not referring to you Otters. I could care less what gender you are, you're a worthwhile person because of the way you express your viewpoint and accept others, and yes, when you extend yourself like that you do have the absolute right to expect it of others.

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I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:52:37 PM   
sweetlindsey84


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Status: offline 		seriously lady pact? you don't know where to find information?

also usually people who are ignorant usually are ignorant because they want to be sooo even when someone tries to educate them they refuse to learn and become combative case in point.... this thread lmao

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:52:46 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		Otters, I understand this is an emotional topic.

I also have copped to the fact that I don't know all there is to know about it.

I do know you are cool and everyone loses it once in a while.



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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:54:59 PM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

seriously lady pact? you don't know where to find information?

also usually people who are ignorant usually are ignorant because they want to be sooo even when someone tries to educate them they refuse to learn and become combative case in point.... this thread lmao


Usually?

Why would you think that?

You have been combative. Most of the other posters, including myself have shown restraint.



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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:56:52 PM   
sweetlindsey84


Posts: 103
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		also if trans people are foreign to you then you are purposefully ignorant.... trans people have been around since the beginning of history....if your ignorant about them well that's no ones fault but your own.....

otter im sorry im being combative but im not going to sit quietly and let people continue to oppress knowingly or not

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 3:57:06 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

lmao your wrong and instead of admitting it you insult my age and say im obnoxious....awesome


You are behaving that way. I can recognize your frustration on the topic, however, people are worth respecting because of how they communicate and the type of person they are. You demanding respect because of gender and throwing a fit when you don't get it is just well....acting foolish. If you cannot see that, you might want to step back and realize that on this site the vast majority WANT to accept each other as they are. There are very few here that throw stones because they all have their own burdens to bear. When you learn that not everyone is out to get you, and education and communciation on an adult basis are necessary, you might begin to actually understand this thread and it's significance here. Stop tossing out insults and making assumptions and tell us about how YOU feel, you cannot begin to know how each of us feel, nor can you speak for every transgendered person in the world.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 4:01:00 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

also if trans people are foreign to you then you are purposefully ignorant.... trans people have been around since the beginning of history....if your ignorant about them well that's no ones fault but your own.....

otter im sorry im being combative but im not going to sit quietly and let people continue to oppress knowingly or not


Oppress? HERE?

I have no doubt folks are oppressed. I have great doubt they are being oppressed here.

You are not making a good case for your argument at all.

You are swaying no one, largely because no one needs swaying. Some of us need info. you give us attitude.



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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 4:01:17 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

seriously lady pact? you don't know where to find information?

also usually people who are ignorant usually are ignorant because they want to be sooo even when someone tries to educate them they refuse to learn and become combative case in point.... this thread lmao


In 30 years of providing education to the ignorant within the polyamory, body modification, LGBT, alt spirituality, alt medicine, body dismorphic, authority-based relationship, SCA and Victorian Reenactment participants, etc., communities, this has -absolutely- not been my experience. My experience has been that most people are curious, and, when educated, are at least neutral and appreciative of having more information from which to build. Only a few... maybe a handful out of every 100, are -intentionally- ignorant, so that no matter -what- you tell them, their opinion will not change.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/15/2010 4:05:49 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 4:02:16 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

seriously lady pact? you don't know where to find information?

also usually people who are ignorant usually are ignorant because they want to be sooo even when someone tries to educate them they refuse to learn and become combative case in point.... this thread lmao


I am pretty sure she knows where to find info. Maybe if you quit lmao and actually read a few of the responses, you could learn something also.


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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 4:03:19 PM   
sweetlindsey84


Posts: 103
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		@laurell3 your right, it is much easier for the oppressors to live in a world where the oppressed keep quiet and try not to disturb anyone else.......

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RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 4:06:49 PM   
sweetlindsey84


Posts: 103
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		@calla I never said don't educate i said it is not the oppressed's responsibility to educate..... however i believe educating the public is vital....ignorance however is only the fault of the ignorant.... the information is out there if you want it....

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 4:07:19 PM   
laurell3


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Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

@laurell3 your right, it is much easier for the oppressors to live in a world where the oppressed keep quiet and try not to disturb anyone else.......


The vision of this thread that exists in your mind doesn't exist anywhere else. If I were you, that would worry me. I'm sorry that this topic is misunderstood, I don't doubt that it is, all the time, but you are doing absolutely nothing here to convince anyone of anything other than you are acting and posting like a nutcase.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to sweetlindsey84)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Defining Gender: No Wrong Answer - 8/15/2010 4:09:02 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

seriously lady pact? you don't know where to find information?

also usually people who are ignorant usually are ignorant because they want to be sooo even when someone tries to educate them they refuse to learn and become combative case in point.... this thread lmao

Yeah.  I'm a go to the source kind of person.  That means, if I want to know how Otters feels on a subject, I'm going to ask Otters.  (Kind of like what you saw in this thread.)  The reality of the matter is that there is no universal answer for everyone,  I'm also led to believe the different people might feel differently at different points in time.  There are also certain situations that could lead to a different response.

As far as I know, nobody is an authority for everybody.  It doesn't apply to any other 'community' so I'm more than willing to believe that there isn't a universal answer here, either.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 140
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