RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (Full Version)

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flcouple2009 -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 11:35:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

"Again with this ?"

I was never in support of it in the first place, nor Bush, not Obama. I was simply pointing out that Obama did the same thing as Bush. Bush agreed to 17B in bailout $$ and Obama upped the pot to 50B.

                  mbmbn



Not exactly the same.  Bush shuffled money at them so the bankruptcy wouldn't happen till he was out of office.  Obama, whether you think it was a good idea or not,  attempted to save GM and Chrysler.



You know this for a fact. Bush's intent was purely evil, but Obama who basically did the same exact thing, did it because he cares about people. I've seen people on here spin some pretty far fetched shit on here, but I believe you may have topped them all.



You my friend are a laugh riot.  The voices in your head might have told you a good story about good and evil but where did I write anything of that nature?

Enlighten me.  What exactly did Bush do besides give either GM or Chrysler operating capital that pushed off the bankruptcy until he split town?  Where was his plan to actually keep them out of bankruptcy and help them function again as a company?  If there was none, what was the point in ever giving any of the money?

Obama's team helped restructure the company in the direction of possibly becoming once again a functional profitable company. 

Whether it works or not, whether you agree that is should have been done is a different discussion.

Good or bad had nothing to do with this.  They certainly did not do the same thing.







maybemaybenot -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 5:14:33 PM)

flcouple:

Are you saying that W just handed over the bailout money without any stipulations? Am I reading you correctly ?

Not being snarky. I am genuinely asking cuz :

"The companies will be required to revamp their organizational structure as a requirement for the funding. President Bush’s government loan has essentially the same stipulations as the bailout package that the House of Representative approved last week, but the Senate rejected."

"Bush’s plan will make President-elect Barack Obama decide by March 30 if the automakers are making sufficient advancements to stay financially afloat. If Obama does not see improvement, the car companies would have to repay the $13.5 billion immediately, and the government would take precedence over other creditors."

"GM and Chrysler must also reduce compensation for executives, among other requirements"

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/business/2008/December/Bush-Gives-Automakers-New-Hope-With-Bailout-Package-.html

          mbmbn



kdsub -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 5:27:50 PM)

Nope...you must be wrong because BioJen says so.
... No hope for the big D ... only thing to do is tear it all down.


Butch

cheap shot i know...but now and then it feels goooood



flcouple2009 -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 6:31:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

flcouple:

Are you saying that W just handed over the bailout money without any stipulations? Am I reading you correctly ?

Not being snarky. I am genuinely asking cuz :

"The companies will be required to revamp their organizational structure as a requirement for the funding. President Bush’s government loan has essentially the same stipulations as the bailout package that the House of Representative approved last week, but the Senate rejected."

"Bush’s plan will make President-elect Barack Obama decide by March 30 if the automakers are making sufficient advancements to stay financially afloat. If Obama does not see improvement, the car companies would have to repay the $13.5 billion immediately, and the government would take precedence over other creditors."

"GM and Chrysler must also reduce compensation for executives, among other requirements"

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/business/2008/December/Bush-Gives-Automakers-New-Hope-With-Bailout-Package-.html

         mbmbn


And the actual plan was?  What outline did they have to accomplish?  Other than floating the process out until he left office what exactly was the plan he put them on?



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 6:57:14 PM)

Would you buy a house in Detroit?




BoiJen -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 7:28:04 PM)

FR: The Big Three and Detroit are not synonymous. I really wish the fucking "news" and government would learn the difference.

the other boi

PS. There are several houses I would buy in Detroit for the right price and if I had the money. Hell, there's more than one I'd be happy to live in.



wittynamehere -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 7:31:04 PM)

There is no recovery. They've been calling it a recovery for almost 2 years now, and every indicator is still showing continued declines. No amount of spin is going to do anything, except maybe make the OP say "Gobama" more.



BoiJen -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 7:34:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

How much farther would have Motown`s economy fallen?



Detroit's economy has not improved with any growth or help from the Big Three in decades. Detroit gained nothing from the Auto Industry bailout.

As for the bailout itself? I think more industries instead of banks should have seen those funds. Fuck AIG.

boi



RedStapler -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/15/2010 9:47:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Between the unions, the execs or the government? How about none of the above.

Personally, I am counting on myself for retirement and I am being real nice to the kids so they won't have a problem when I move in with them later.

Ever since my first paycheck, I've pretty much been resigned to the expectation that I'll never see that FICA money again. Never trusted big business either.

That means I'm counting on myself too. I see you're doing the "mooch off the kids" retirement plan. I'm doing the "No kids" retirement plan. Basically, I'm taking every last dime I would have spent on kids (and then some) and squirreling it away for retirement.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 5:29:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

PS. There are several houses I would buy in Detroit for the right price and if I had the money. Hell, there's more than one I'd be happy to live in.



Interesting statement... curious about the neighborhood though. And I am guessing, if you had the money, you could afford to drive out to the burbs for your weekly grocery shopping.



rulemylife -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 6:08:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

There is no recovery. They've been calling it a recovery for almost 2 years now, and every indicator is still showing continued declines. No amount of spin is going to do anything, except maybe make the OP say "Gobama" more.


No kidding?

How about pointing out to us all those indicators that are showing declines?

Because it seems as if the vast majority of economists disagree with your assessment.





truckinslave -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 6:23:19 AM)

quote:

who can the american citizen count on more for retirement?


How about: themselves?



truckinslave -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 6:28:35 AM)

Ever heard the phrase "dead cat bounce"?



BoiJen -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 6:42:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Interesting statement... curious about the neighborhood though. And I am guessing, if you had the money, you could afford to drive out to the burbs for your weekly grocery shopping.



That's actually part of the problem. Quality groceries at good prices are hard to find within the city of Detroit. Part of the issue is that Grocery stores like "Food Lion" maintain poor quality, sometimes inexpensive products. Hell, produce even as close as 8 mile and Wyoming was shit at Kroger. Sometimes moldy and always substandard produce isn't a great way to get folks stay within the city when it comes even basic necessities.

And I miss the hell out of Meijer. Good quality organic offers at better than Wal-mart prices.

boi



rulemylife -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 6:43:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

who can the american citizen count on more for retirement?


How about: themselves?


Maybe we should start that at the top to set a good example.

Instead, while employees are told they must provide for themselves CEO's and other executives walk away with luxurious retirement plans.

The Golden Parachute: CEO Severance and the Housing Crisis

It’s no secret that CEOs have been raking in millions of dollars in salaries, stock options, retirement benefits, and perks like country club memberships and private jet use at a rate that far outpaces the growth of rank-and-file workers’ wages. What’s more, even when their companies don’t perform well or when the top dog gets the boot, the CEO still gets out with a golden parachute worth millions in severance pay, retirement benefits, stock options, and other benefits.



truckinslave -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 6:50:37 AM)

I too have railed about out-of-control executive compensation.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that we all need to be, and encourage others to be, self-reliant.



Kirata -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 7:07:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Because it seems as if the vast majority of economists disagree with your assessment.

Can You See The Economic Recovery? ~International Business Times, August 8, 2010
Economic Fears Rise as Disappointing Figures Pile Up ~Los Angeles Times, August 14, 2010
U.S. Stock Futures Fall as Data Cast Doubt on Economic Recovery ~Bloomberg Businessweek, August 16, 2010

K.



rulemylife -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 7:27:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Because it seems as if the vast majority of economists disagree with your assessment.

Can You See The Economic Recovery? ~International Business Times, August 8, 2010
Economic Fears Rise as Disappointing Figures Pile Up ~Los Angeles Times, August 14, 2010
U.S. Stock Futures Fall as Data Cast Doubt on Economic Recovery ~Bloomberg Businessweek, August 16, 2010

K.


I'm not really interested in getting into a link war, but I'll provide this:


Economists now say U.S. recovery is underway, due to stimulus

According to a new survey of economists, an economic recovery from the United States' worst recession in more than a generation has begun, jump-started by the Obama administration's $787 billion fiscal stimulus package.

Economists surveyed by Bloomberg News expect the U.S. economy to expand by two percent or more for four consecutive quarters through June 2010.

What's more Bloomberg's panel increased its third quarter GDP estimate by a whopping 1.2 percentage points compared to the July survey; this is the biggest such forecast increase since Bloomberg began the survey in 2003.
See full article from DailyFinance: http://www.dailyfinance.com



Kirata -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 7:44:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I'm not really interested in getting into a link war, but I'll provide this:

I am aware that there are views on both sides of the question, but in my opinion it is at least fair to say that even the brightest predictions are less than exciting. And it seems to me to have a lot to do with how we define a recovery. Consider the following (from your link, my italics):

The anticipated expansion in the coming year won’t be enough to prevent the unemployment rate from reaching 10 percent ... Americans are hurting as employers continue to cut jobs... “What’s happening now is a leveling off, not a strong increase in growth...

Apparently the thing we have most to be thankful for is that the "recovery" isn't worse.

K.



rulemylife -> RE: Detroit Goes From Gloom to Economic Bright Spot (8/16/2010 8:20:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I'm not really interested in getting into a link war, but I'll provide this:

I am aware that there are views on both sides of the question, but in my opinion it is at least fair to say that even the brightest predictions are less than exciting. And it seems to me to have a lot to do with how we define a recovery. Consider the following (from your link, my italics):

The anticipated expansion in the coming year won’t be enough to prevent the unemployment rate from reaching 10 percent ... Americans are hurting as employers continue to cut jobs... “What’s happening now is a leveling off, not a strong increase in growth...

Apparently the thing we have most to be thankful for is that the "recovery" isn't worse.

K.


Are you denying we are in a recovery?

Because the comments I made were directed at another poster who said that every indicator says we are not in a recovery, which is blatantly false.

I'm not denying there are still problems, unemployment being the main one, but every common standard says we are no longer in recession.



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