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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 8:41:29 AM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisBestGirl

However, at community events, I'm constantly carded because I look underage (and in Australia, the legal drinking age is 18 so I must look pretty damn young).

Same here-it's 18 in the UK too

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 8:47:54 AM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

Excuse me while I go bright red for a minute-thankyou, Lucienne :-)

OP: perhaps I get less riled at things like the flaky 19-yo thread because I can see those posters' point-that particular girl is in a fucked-up relationship, and that suggests to me that she's immature, no? People use 'her life is fucked because she's only 19' as a shorthand for 'her life is fucked and that, combined with her age, makes me think that she's probably too immature to be in this relationship'. Is it the most justified shorthand ever? Probably not, but in most cases it really *is* only a shorthand, and I don't think it's worth taking personal offence at.

You mentioned people directly attacking you for your age above-that's different to a general statement. I don't know how I'd react to that, because it tends not to happen to me.

One time I sent a memo to a poster after they mentioned another poster's age (which was a good ten years older than me) in an argument. Their response was something along the lines that however much knowledge a person has now they *will* have more later in life. That's a more positive way of looking at the situation, I reckon.

I had to look to remember that VC is a mere 21. I will admit that being reminded of that suprises me again as I do consider her to be one of the more level-headed and mature posters here. Obviously my suprise indicates that I have some views on age, but I think my views are a bit different than making an assumption that NO young person can be mature. I will say that when I see someone acting in a way that's just silly and immature and I know their age is very young, I do attribute it to age. I know that age is not something a person can change, however, and it seems equally silly to beat them up about it. I don't think that some of the comments mentioned in this thread are ageism or even insulting as suggested.

I wouldn't change the age of consent or majority. I think efforts to do so don't take into account that life experience does make a big difference in how we interact with the world. That having been said, I will agree that I've met some very mature young people that certainly should be considered for their actions and not just as a number.

This ageism goes both ways by the way. There are also many negative comments about people that are at the other end of the spectrum, which are equally presumptous and not necessarily true.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 8:56:43 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: You don't see anyone saying that VC's opinions are less valid because of her age, because she's obviously kind of fucking brilliant.
quote:

quote]

/quote]
Just wanted to say ditto on VC; and she is hot too, double whammy.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:05:36 AM

LadyPact

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If you could change the age of majority what would you change it to?

I wouldn't necessarily change it.

If 18 is not an age where one is considered and adult and able to make adult decisions, what is this magical age that one has to reach before they are an "adult"?

I think the connection might be that, at 18, a person is just starting to make decisions as an adult. Even then, it's not the same for everyone in the same age bracket. Depending on a person's path, some in that 18-22 range that you mention still live at home, might be in college, and others are fully responsible for themselves. It isn't really the same across the board.

What do you consider an adult to be?

My thinking on this is somewhat aligned with Steven's. It's not the magical number of the eighteenth birthday. It's the full responsibility of the self in My eyes. The self financial support, the providing of one's own living conditions, and all that goes with that. (Paying your monthly bills, medical care, etc.) That's not a dig against anyone. Truthfully, I didn't see My own daughter as an adult under the above conditions until she was almost 21. My son was just short of 19 when all of those conditions were met.

What significant life experience does one need to have before they reach "adulthood"?

I think this goes very much with My answer above. I base a lot of what I view as an adult minimally at self support and having the maturity to handle that successfully.

And finally, Why do you feel the need to degrade or put others down because of something they have no control over such as age?

This is something of a smart-assed statement, but youth is not a permanent condition. It's not something that is locked on you for the rest of your days, like race or sexual orientation.

I have a couple of general comments in addition to My answers here. Yes, I understand what you are saying with the bit of there are some immature 50 year olds out there, too. However, you are looking at the exception, rather than the rule. Very much being the exception to the rule is why this has become an issue for you. In your own original, you even mention being that exception to the rule because you happen to be mature for your age. If you know that within your own age group, it's going to be apparent to those older than your age group.

Truthfully, there are some in that age bracket who aren't doing you any favors. The folks who are in that range that come onto the boards, literally demonstrate that they lack maturity or life experience (kinky or general), they are reinforcing that age = immaturity stereotype for you. No, it isn't fair, but it is what happens.

Yes, there are many TNG groups now. However, it's not universal. I am still a member of all of the munch groups that I participated in prior to My move last year. All but one of those groups is still 21 and up. In fact, one group has elections and by-law votes coming soon and the minimum age requirement is being presented again. From reading it all again, it looks to fail again. This also works against people in that age bracket. Many BDSM clubs are still 21 and up. I think you get what I'm saying here. It makes it harder for those under 21 to get practical experience for areas like topping skills, so that tends to have an impact. If you run across someone like Myself who wants to have munch and event participation as part of their BDSM experience, it automatically disqualifies people in that age range.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:09:14 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Eeeh.

The age of being able to sign a binding contract is 18. The age of being able to legally marry is 18. The age of being able to legally join the armed forces and get blown to shit in the sandbox is 18. The age of being able to vote is 18. The age of being able to buy a BEER? 21. here in Michigan, anyway.

So, the laws are a lot of malarkey.

One of my colleagues said that you can have ten years of experience, or you can have the same year of experience ten times. That has really stuck with me.

I am not a great perver of profiles. I don't pay much attention to how old people are, unless THEY make a point of it. This week, I was surprised to find that one poster was 22, and another was 42. Their apparent maturity was definitely reversed. There are lots of wonderful young folks, and lots of utter entitlement whores. People are who they are, and *personality* is not as totally linked to maturity as we would like.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:13:11 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

If one at the ripe age of 18 to around 22 is so clueless as some have put I have the following questions to ask:

* If you could change the age of majority what would you change it to?

I wouldn't change the "age of majority"... in fact, I think I'd like to roll it BACK to 18 for things like consumption of alcoholic beverages. If our kids are old enough to die for their country, they're old enough to have a beer.

quote:

* If 18 is not an age where one is considered and adult and able to make adult decisions, what is this magical age that one has to reach before they are an "adult"?

It isn't an issue of chronological age for me. It's an issue of taking personal responsibility, acknowledging choices, and accepting both good and bad outcomes from one's decisions. With this being said, there are some 16 and 17 year olds who are mature, and only lack experience in their decision-making process, and there are some 60 year olds who are incredibly -immature- and incapable of accepting responsibility for their actions.

quote:

* What do you consider an adult to be?

As I said earlier, I consider an "adult" to be an individual who has a sufficient level of responsibility to accept that there are certain outcomes for each decision that we make; someone who recognizes that there is -always- a choice... some of the options available may not be particularly -palatable-, but there is -always- a choice... and -not- making a decision and letting circumstance decide for you IS a choice, and has its own repercussions (none of which makes the individual on the receiving end of those repercussions a 'victim'). As I also said above, there are many people who have made it to the societal 'benchmark' that supposedly marks them as "adults" (some of them decades ago!) who -still- don't meet my criteria for 'adult'.

quote:

* What significant life experience does one need to have before they reach "adulthood"?

I think that, in order to make good decisions, one has to have had sufficient experience in the decision-making process to understand the whole concept of "for every action, there is an equal and opposite -reaction-", and to be able to gauge outcomes accordingly. For some folks, this happens early in their lives. Their lives are either full of experiences that they have to process and respond to, or the few experiences they have are VERY intense in terms of clear demarkation between the decision and the result. For those who never -do- see the link between their choices and the outcomes... well, no amount of experience will solve that one. In my opinion, in most cases this situation is not one of failure to learn, but of making a -decision- to remain ignorant at all costs, in order to throw any 'blame' for poor decision making onto someone else.

quote:

* And finally, Why do you feel the need to degrade or put others down because of something they have no control over such as age?

I don't tend to insult or degrade people over their age.. however, I have -no- issue in directly addressing failure to accept responsibility for one's decisions. Those individuals who persist in pointing fingers at someone else and declaring themselves the "victim" when the issue is in their own decision-making process often take this as me being 'insulting' due to their age/inexperience, but really, it has nothing to do with age, and -everything- to do with having the guts to accept responsibility for the outcome of one's own decisions.

Calla

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:21:50 AM

Lordandmaster

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OK, OK, I'll admit it, I plead guilty to ageism. I would never fuck anyone over the age of 140.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:24:29 AM

laurell3

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What's the lifespan of an elephant?

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:27:44 AM

Lordandmaster

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http://elephant.elehost.com/About_Elephants/Life_Cycles/Adult/adult.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

What's the lifespan of an elephant?

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:37:03 AM

leadership527

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If you could change the age of majority what would you change it to?
I'm good where it is.

If 18 is not an age where one is considered and adult and able to make adult decisions, what is this magical age that one has to reach before they are an "adult"?
I'm good with 18. Note though that the fact that someone is a young adult does not mean I want to date them.

What do you consider an adult to be?
Someone who is demonstrably able to succeed at life on their own.

What significant life experience does one need to have before they reach "adulthood"?
See above. But again, the fact that I'd agree 18 is an adult doesn't mean I think 18 is compatible with me.

And finally, Why do you feel the need to degrade or put others down because of something they have no control over such as age?
Because they write posts like this? Seriously, I don't put people down for stuff like this. But I do have generalizations in my head about the level of drama associated with young people... especially young females... especially young, attractive females. Any given individual might, of course, not match those generalizations but the odds are slim that I'd ever partner with an 18 year old. Hell, I didn't even like young women when I was a young man.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 9:39:48 AM

myotherself

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

I also have to add that knowledge goes both ways generationally my generation knows typically more about electronics and the like because we were raised on them from baby up. Where as someone in their 40s had to pick it up at a different stage. So being 40 or 50 doesn't mean all the time you have had X number of years that's means superior.

have to beg to differ here.

Your generation may know how to use computers more, because they've been around since you were babies. It was my generation that made the kit that you're so good at using. I'm 45, and proud to have been one of the engineers who made high speed trans-oceanic internet communications a reality instead of a dream. In fact, optical networks today are still being made incorporating technology I personally designed 25 or more years ago.

Don't dismiss us because of our age - some of us are actually quite interesting people with a surprising level of maturity!

< Message edited by myotherself -- 8/16/2010 9:43:14 AM >

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 10:13:25 AM

juliaoceania

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In what way are you being discriminated against?

And, honestly, don't you do a little stereotyping of your own with older people?

I will now answer the questions you asked

quote:

What do you consider an adult to be?

Beyond the legal definition, I consider it to be someone who is responsible for themselves, productive, and does not need guidance or direction to accomplish their responsibilities

quote:

And finally, Why do you feel the need to degrade or put others down because of something they have no control over such as age?

Huh? Are you assuming this is something that we do? Look at the way you phrased your question, it is completely negative. It is not asking "if you degrade", it is saying that we do...

If you feel degraded on this board by because of your age, perhaps you need to rethink that, because I had no idea how old you were, and I usually don't know how old people are that post here. Get this, I don't care. I love younger people. Are there generational differences, certainly, but that does not mean I "degrade" them because I notice the differences. Younger people are just as ageist as older ones... your OP proves it

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 10:14:49 AM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

I also have to add that knowledge goes both ways generationally my generation knows typically more about electronics and the like because we were raised on them from baby up. Where as someone in their 40s had to pick it up at a different stage. So being 40 or 50 doesn't mean all the time you have had X number of years that's means superior.

have to beg to differ here.

Your generation may know how to use computers more, because they've been around since you were babies. It was my generation that made the kit that you're so good at using. I'm 45, and proud to have been one of the engineers who made high speed trans-oceanic internet communications a reality instead of a dream. In fact, optical networks today are still being made incorporating technology I personally designed 25 or more years ago.

Don't dismiss us because of our age - some of us are actually quite interesting people with a surprising level of maturity!

Our bunny is a genius!!! YAY for bunnies!!

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 10:16:29 AM

laurell3

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The bunny definitely rocks. (and I had to look to remember her age).

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 10:18:52 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

Vc: its not specific personal references its more like generalized statements, like on threads such as flakey 19yo slave and the would you introduce your sone/daughter threads that sparked the questions.

The 18 to 22 aren't emotionally mature enough for the life or similar statements like she's 19 what do you expect comments that have fueled my wonderings.

I also have to add that knowledge goes both ways generationally my generation knows typically more about electronics and the like because we were raised on them from baby up. Where as someone in their 40s had to pick it up at a different stage. So being 40 or 50 doesn't mean all the time you have had X number of years that's means superior.

I read a couple of those threads, and contributed to them. I did not find anything I wrote there to be ageist. I saw a bunch of people who wouldbe open with their adult children... so you choose to concentrate on the negative, and then lump all older people together because of what a handful said... that is called "stereotyping"... pot-kettle-black

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 1:21:52 PM

myotherself

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*blushes*

Thank you ladies

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 1:27:38 PM

mstrjx

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I've had kinky interests practically forever. I've dabbled, either alone or with others, since my early teens. But it took until I was 30 before I actually joined 'the lifestyle' permanently. I have heard it said that this is about the correct time for a male to do so because by that time men are more capable of developing and keeping a relationship based on 'whatever' at around that age. Call it 'relationship maturity'. Prior to that, issues such as lack of commitment provide a sufficient barrier to becoming an effective dominant man.

As I write this, I think a submissive might come to their conclusion earlier in life, although the Devil's advocate would say that they, too, need a certain amount of life experience to make the commitment to turn their life (at least partially) to another.

Jeff

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 1:36:13 PM

DCWoody

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Actually it's 5, there are just various rules about purchasing it/serving it. Essentially 18 to buy it in a club/club/shop, 16 as part of a meal.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 1:40:56 PM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Actually it's 5, there are just various rules about purchasing it/serving it. Essentially 18 to buy it in a club/club/shop, 16 as part of a meal.

We're talking about kink events. That means clubs and pubs and bars.

Was that really worth correcting?

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:25:24 PM

SpiritedRadiance

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Many have mentioned that their are not specific enough examples to state my case so below are some quotes I dont think any of these quotes have positive qualities to them. and this is only from two of the more recent threads that have come about, nothing from several years past.

quote:

I work with 18 year olds all the time, and flat out, they are kids, not adults.

quote:

Nothing I say or do will teach that to an 18 year old. At 18 they know it all and a parent telling them anything at all goes in one ear and out the other.

My daughter is moving out on her own tomorrow. I've talked to her about everything possible till I'm blue in the face. Do I really think she heard a single word I said?? Nope. She's 18. She'll learn things the hard way like everyone does....by making mistakes and learning from them.

quote:

She's a kid, take her on a date and spoil her rotten, then have a farewell session and let her go. Don't look back, always try to end on a high note. Aceept that at that age, it's never going to last for long, just get one more session out of it to remember her by.

quote:

Gee do you think that being nineteen has something to do with it.....
Give her a few years to age.
Its like bad wine.. given enough time it may be drinkable..

Or hey just dump it down the drain and find another bottle

quote:

-19 year olds are better at knowing what they don't want than what they do want. If she said she doesn't like carrots, you should have taken her seriously. If she said she wanted a 24/7 where you controlled her entire life, you should have just interpreted it as a willingness to try, but not necessarily something she actually would end up wanting or even a good idea. So scale back to her being only sexually submissive.
(snip)

Fyi, I'm 22 and 19 year olds are right up my alley. And, yes, they like to test your self-confidence and self-worth on a regular basis. So have those two things and keep it as cool as possible.

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