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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:26:55 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		And you don't see ANY truth at all in ANY of those statements? Honestly, that right there would be enough for me to discount any other opinions you have. And yes, I'd chalk that up to your age and lack of experience also.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:27:16 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I read a couple of those threads, and contributed to them. I did not find anything I wrote there to be ageist. I saw a bunch of people who wouldbe open with their adult children... so you choose to concentrate on the negative, and then lump all older people together because of what a handful said... that is called "stereotyping"... pot-kettle-black


Its not intended to be sterotyping, the last question is geared toward those who do put those who are younger down or have made some of the quotes posted.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:29:26 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
have to beg to differ here.

Your generation may know how to use computers more, because they've been around since you were babies. It was my generation that made the kit that you're so good at using. I'm 45, and proud to have been one of the engineers who made high speed trans-oceanic internet communications a reality instead of a dream. In fact, optical networks today are still being made incorporating technology I personally designed 25 or more years ago.

Don't dismiss us because of our age - some of us are actually quite interesting people with a surprising level of maturity!


The only example my befrazzled brain could think of at the time is more electronically geared situations or online interactions such as facebook and texting, This is something many my age simply do with out thought because its ingrained in us from repeated use.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:31:26 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

And you don't see ANY truth at all in ANY of those statements? Honestly, that right there would be enough for me to discount any other opinions you have. And yes, I'd chalk that up to your age and lack of experience also.


Im not saying I dont see some truth in the statements, I am trying to point out that all such statements do not say some or a fair amount, they all are saying everyone at this age, acts this way.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:40:34 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
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From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		that's ok - that's what I thought you meant

Funny thing is, I recall conversations at work (I was part of a UK-US-French-Canadian engineering consortium) where we pondered how well these new-fangled mobile phones would work out, and what kind of things our cool new networks would actually be used for.

It was postulated by one extremely eminent engineer/scientist that we were providing more network capacity than we needed - he thought that the network would be full in about 100 years. He was only about 85 years out, lol



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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:42:36 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance
Im not saying I dont see some truth in the statements, I am trying to point out that all such statements do not say some or a fair amount, they all are saying everyone at this age, acts this way.
Really? That is REALLY what you think those statements meant? God knows when I say something like,

Young people have more melodrama in their lives than I want to cope with

I'm intending that statement to be a generalization... just the way it sounds. Nowhere in my head did I think it applied to every single young person on the face of the planet. Is it possible that there is some hot 21 year old somewhere on the planet that would make a great partner for me? Absolutely! Not just possible, but I'd say that's pretty much a guaranteed fact. That, however, doesn't make the generalizations incorrect. Nor does it mitigate the fact that the 21-ish age-bracket would not be fertile fields for me to find a partner in. I'd be searching in a population where at best 1% would even have a prayer.

Not in all cases, but by and large, stereotypes get to BE stereotypes because they contain truth in them. In my opinion, you'd serve yourself better by seeking to understand why people with way more experience than you seem to think this way and then doing what you can to make sure you don't conform to those expectations. But railing against the expectations.... ones that are essentially correct... is just going to end poorly.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:50:16 PM   
DarlingSavage


Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline 		I'm a day late and a dollar short here.  I read a few excellent posts and I just don't have time to read all of them and wish I did.

As for myself, I think that the age of a person tells how much life experience they have had, up to a point.  Most people have gone through certain life experiences that are common in society.  A few people have had extraordinary experiences.  I say extraordinary, meaning outside the realm of what is ordinary, NOT something that was better than anyone else or some experience that suggests any superiority or inferiority to others.  However, it is known that at certain ages, we, as human beings go through specific stages of development.  These stages include social stages, emotional stages, mental and psychological stages.  I learned in Psych 101 that humans reached psychological maturity at the age of 25. 

However, as a mother, I am always going to see people the same age as my own kids as kids, and I don't think it's insulting.  I feel protective of kids of all ages and I want what's best for everyone.  As a Buddhist and a human being, I don't want anyone to suffer.  I see people your age as children and it's because I'm a mother.  It shouldn't be taken as an insult.  I love it when people older than me say I'm a baby.  I certainly still feel like one at times!  We all need to feel like little babies to somebody, I think.  It sucks to have to be the grown up all the time and ALWAYS be responsible and NEVER be free and open and vulnerable.   


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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 2:52:21 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:

Not in all cases, but by and large, stereotypes get to BE stereotypes because they contain truth in them. In my opinion, you'd serve yourself better by seeking to understand why people with way more experience than you seem to think this way and then doing what you can to make sure you don't conform to those expectations. But railing against the expectations.... ones that are essentially correct... is just going to end poorly.


You smahwt man!


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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 3:06:06 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance
Im not saying I dont see some truth in the statements, I am trying to point out that all such statements do not say some or a fair amount, they all are saying everyone at this age, acts this way.


There are certain words/phrases that almost have a life of their own on the subject.

In My experience

Most

All

Never

In My opinion

Etc, etc, etc.


It can get to a point where it is darn near (there's another one) ridiculous to have to clarify yourself with every breath, er, comment.  Even when someone tries to be conscientious about it, at some point, enough is enough.

In the past, there have been some folks (still are in some cases) who have made huge impressions here even though they are in the same age range.  VC was mentioned and boijen is another.  I don't agree with everyone on this thread in some other assessments (or at least one).  Some of them you missed.  (Who doesn't miss MadRabbit?)

One that always stood out for Me was a guy named aidan.  (He still reads here, so I think it's ok to mention him.)  At all of nineteen when he started coming on the boards, he changed a lot of people's minds about him.  In time, he became one of the best posters on certain topics.  Age issues amongst them.

I have to admit, one of My favorite posts of his of all time, was in response to someone who was the same age, stomping their feet about the age issue.  The OP wanted to go on about how mature he felt himself being when he clearly wasn't.  To paraphrase, "Duderrrrrrr..... Way to strike one for our generation".

I damn near laughed My ass off.




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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 3:09:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I read a couple of those threads, and contributed to them. I did not find anything I wrote there to be ageist. I saw a bunch of people who wouldbe open with their adult children... so you choose to concentrate on the negative, and then lump all older people together because of what a handful said... that is called "stereotyping"... pot-kettle-black


Its not intended to be sterotyping, the last question is geared toward those who do put those who are younger down or have made some of the quotes posted.




You have stereotyped older people several times on this thread, and you just cannot see it.

I will quote those stereotypes for you...


quote:

I also have to add that knowledge goes both ways generationally my generation knows typically more about electronics and the like because we were raised on them from baby up. Where as someone in their 40s had to pick it up at a different stage. So being 40 or 50 doesn't mean all the time you have had X number of years that's means superior.


I can tell you, my generation is the reason yours have such access to computers. I would even say my generation picks up on programs even quicker than some in your generation. I was one of the best in my class at computer modeling last semester (I am in graduate school). The best student in that class was nearly 40. This is an example of you being "ageist"

quote:

Many people in their 30s and 40s are just starting to deal with the loss of a parent, of dear loved ones, of taking care of elderly parents. Ive been doing as such when I was 15.

Sadly I am simply a little tired of being told or reading often in some times more tactful ways "you dont know anything little girl simply because you have only been alive for so many years".


I lost my father at 13. I lost nearly everything else but my mother in the following two years (my dog, my sister moved, my family home, my best friend)... this did not make me grow up faster or make me any wiser... in fact it stunted my personal growth on some levels. So, again, you are stereotyping and saying that life experiences equate wisdom and maturity... sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't

As far as your quotes...

To me 18 year olds are kids... my son will ALWAYS be "my" kid. I see a lot of people I am in class with as "kids", but they see me as that old lady who shouldn't be in class with them... or they think of me like I am their "mother", I am not offended by this...

I think that when you have kids of your own, raise them, and then they move out and start their own life, you will probably feel much the same way as those whom you quoted...I do not see those quotes as "degrading" people.

The fact of the matter is your brain is still developing until you are 25, so no, you are not "fully mature" from a biological point of view. Some people are ahead of the game, some never grow up, but the fact of the matter is you aren't fully grown up yet... is that an insult? I don't think it is. I am not saying it to minimize you or your opinions. In some ways a growing mind is a creative mind. I never wanted to be an adult anyways, so perhaps that is just my way of looking at it



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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 3:20:00 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		It is simply a fact of life that, at 18, one does not have the same quantity or depth of experiences as someone who is, say 36 or even, dare I say it, 54... Even if someone has had more intense experiences, xhe certainly hasn't had the -time- to sort out how all those experiences fit into the greater scope of existence. Hell, I'm nearly 50 and am still sorting it out and still learning that there are a LOT of things that I don't see clearly.

We live, and every day that we live provides additional experience for us. For some of us, those experiences shape and change us. For others, they reinforce perceptions of life as it is. No, age doesn't necessarily guarantee wisdom, but it certainly -does- give a much larger pool of experience to draw from when evaluating situations and determining responses to choices, and that is just a fact of life.

Arguing about how it "isn't fair" that life is what it is, and that time is what it is, and intimating that people who say that more time=more experience are "picking on" less experienced individuals, is not only unreasonable, it is also, whether it's said by a 20 year old or a 40 year old, a rather immature perspective, IMO.

Calla


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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 3:21:09 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		I can't wait to read the replies to this. 

I am guilty of ageism, and not just in this thing I am tryin to do again here on Collarme.  I know I can't speak for everyone, but I will speak for me adn friends and family that I have discussed this with.

I was 15 and knew it all, 18 and knew it all, 21 and was an adult and had life figured out and knew exactly who I was, 25 and cried cause I was A DAMN QUARTER OF A CENTURY OLD FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD, 30 and for sure knew I was an adult and knew who and what life was about, 40 and wondered hmmmmm and now 48 and realizing nothing stays the same and really starting to explore my innerds for what I want my life to be about.

All that leads to this.  Everyone that is 48 has been 18, 21, 25, 30, 40, etc etc so one and so forth.  I don't think saying you are young is an insult, it is more the way different eyes who have seen more see stuff.

Someone had a song, maybe Waylon, I will have to google, and I remember the line "I got a couple of years on ya baby thats all, it aint that I'm wiser, it's just that I've spent more time with my back against the wall".....that probably aint zactly right, but it is the general gist of it. 

One other thing, tis good when you sit and read what you just wrote and wonder if it makes sense at all-lolol  But ya hit enter and say wtf, who cares!

eta http://www.tsrocks.com/w/waylon_jennings_texts/couple_more_years.html

Man, Waylons voice and horns.......life is good.

< Message edited by JstAnotherSub -- 8/16/2010 3:32:45 PM >

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 3:43:32 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I spent the first part of my life trying to show how serious I took it all, now I am spending the second half of my life trying not to take it all so seriously

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 4:01:56 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I spent the first part of my life trying to show how serious I took it all, now I am spending the second half of my life trying not to take it all so seriously



Really!! I am "younger" mentally than I was when I was 22!!


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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 4:10:09 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It can get to a point where it is darn near (there's another one) ridiculous to have to clarify yourself with every breath, er, comment.  Even when someone tries to be conscientious about it, at some point, enough is enough.[/color]

OP: this ties in with what I was saying, I think-a lot of the statements you are taking as universal are shorthands, with qualifiers implied that people tend not to type because they assume you're aware that they are meant to be there.

Also, thankyou to everyone that has said nice things

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/16/2010 11:48:57 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline 		I guess I have the belief that if generalizations about most topics, like my way is the only way, or something that comes across as degrading to a general group of people that is not often tolerated on the boards. Often there are flame wars when one comes here with one true wayism beliefs.

I am seeing that some things are meant to be less of an attack on a younger generation, and more of an expression of personal experience. I also hope I didnt offend anyone by trying to seek out peoples opinions on the topic.

I still think I will find distaste with most generalizations, and stereotypes as they tend to label people with negative opinion or leanings prior to getting to know that person and they are hard to overcome once that has been formed.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/17/2010 1:00:20 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

I still think I will find distaste with most generalizations, and stereotypes as they tend to label people with negative opinion or leanings prior to getting to know that person and they are hard to overcome once that has been formed.

But see, that's what I'm saying-I haven't found that to be the case on this site at all-with very few exceptions people here are willing to consider anyone who comes along and demonstrates maturity as an exception to the rule-they treat all those statements about young people as rules rather than laws (in the scientific sense of the word).

I've been thinking about this since yesterday, and I can only think of three times I think someone questioned/insulted me due to my age (and I'm not sure the third time even *happened*...)-one of those people was sm22, one of those people was another troll (don't remember the conversation, but I remember typing 'if that was a reference to my age then...') and I *think* Focus might have mentioned it once, but like I said, I don't clearly remember whether or not he was talking about me specifically. I don't remember because I didn't think it was that important at the time-if I'd felt insulted I would remember, I can tell you

If I felt that all these unclarified statements were negatively impacting on the way young posters are viewed on the site then I would totally agree with you, but in my own personal experience they aren't, so I find it a bit hard to get all het up about.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/17/2010 3:51:46 AM   
Cherylmazana


Posts: 1152
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		I've got a couple more years on you, babe,that's all.
I've had more chances to fly and more places to fall.
And it ain't that I'm wiser - it's only that I've spent
more time with my back to the wall.
And I've picked up a couple more years on you, baby, that's all.

I've walked a couple more roads than you, baby ,that's all.
And I'm tired of runnin' while you're only learning to crawl.
And you're headin somewhere , but I've been to somewhere
and found it was nowhere at all.
And I've picked up a couple of years on you baby , that's all.

Now sayin' goodbye, girl don't never come easy at all.
But you've got to fly 'cuz you're hearin' those young eagles call.
And someday when you're older, you'll smile at a man strong and tall.
And you'll say I've got a couple more years on you, baby - that's all.

I've got a couple more years on you baby , that's all.
You'll say I've had more chances to fly and more places to fall.
It ain't that I'm wiser it's only that I've spent
more time with my back to the wall.
And I've picked up a couple more years on you baby, that's all.

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/17/2010 4:03:59 AM   
Domtaur


Posts: 36
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Status: offline 		No Way..Someone knows the words to an old Dr Hook song...Kudos

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RE: BDSM and Ageism - 8/17/2010 4:12:31 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

Des: its actually a form of age descrimination basing sterotype on ones age to my understanding.

I do not discredit that I will know more in 10 years, my question is that those that believe they know more, why must they discredit someone else because of age. While time gives the added advantage of extra learning its hypocritical to say all 21 year olds think they know it all and never listen when they do the same on themselves.

The comments while they don't apply to me at times can be frustrating because your basing your life on another person. Some find the life very early on, some don't until later. I know for a fact I'm more together then most I'm 21 and have the ability to have not one but three careers.

I've held down a full time job at times two since I was 16. I've had a lot of eyeopening experiences. I don't mean or intend to come across as whining when I say why shouldn't that matter more then a date?

If you constantly had someone say of you don't know crap your such ans such an age and I know better would it be different?


It is not discrimination because it is opinion, not preventing you from doing anything you want to do. When you get emails from men old enough to be your grandfather, do you feel obligated to have sex with them for fear they will claim you are discriminating against them? Of course not. You have as much right to your preferences and your opinions as they do.

And that includes deciding you won't have sex with all men above 60. Or deciding none of them are writing you because of your quality with the written word, but instead simply because you are young in body.

Yes, it can get tiring having people roll their eyes at your comments and telling you  that your opinion on the subject will change in ten years. But no one is preventing you from still posting because of your age. Equally no one is stopping you from blocking everyone who discounts your opinion. And no one is stopping anyone older from posting what they like, which includes criticizing another poster's opinion on whatever grounds seems appropriate to them.


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