RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center

RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:18:28 AM)
quote: you do have sympathy for the relatives and friends of the murdered...and you can see where in fighting through their grief they may feel this Center inappropriate...right? I don't think you know what they feel, and neither do I, I do not think it is appropriate to discuss it because we do not know... quote: And you can see where some thinking people may feel it would have been a better choice by the church elders to acknowledge this resentment and look elsewhere for their center if possible... right? No, I don't agree. I do not think being 5 blocks from Ground Zero is so close that people should FREAK THE FUCK OUT about it. I think there comes a time that we have to put this behind us, and this ginning up hatred about a building blocks and blocks away is seriously ridiculous. As people are finding out that the details of this cultural center their opinion is changing... it isn't a mosque, it isn't being built on Ground Zero, and they have been on that block for years

taniatv -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:21:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: taniatv quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: taniatv They do understand that people who lost loved ones in 911 might be a little upset by this building don't they? You do realize many Muslims died on 9-11 Why would the family's of the muslims who died on 9-11 be upset by the building of a mosque? I don't get what you are attempting to say. What I am saying is that Christians do not own Ground Zero.... and Muslims died there too. It is not a complex idea to get that some of those people are Muslims and building a cultural center FIVE BLOCKS AWAY isn't going to hurt anybody People are already hurt by the plans to build this house. Christian's do not have the monopoly when it comes to the objection of the proposed expansion, which is in what would have been THE SHADOW of the World Trade Center.

kdsub -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:22:14 AM)
juliaoceania...in every post I have been separating the grieving families from the politicians... have you not been reading... When I first asked you if you could understand the feelings of the victims you answered that you would not coddle religiously intolerant people... I was specifically talking of the friends and relatives of the dead so how could I take your answer any other way? I do not need to know their opinions... I see them protesting...you are the one calling them intolerant for their views... All along, and you can reread my posts to verify, I have been trying to get you to recognize and separate the political rhetoric from the human side of this issue... you refuse. Butch

juliaoceania -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:30:12 AM)
quote: I do not need to know their opinions... I see them protesting...you are the one calling them intolerant for their views... All along, and you can reread my posts to verify, I have been trying to get you to recognize and separate the political rhetoric from the human side of this issue... you refuse. How about all the families that are not protesting? And whether or not they are being intolerant of Islam, it has the same impact of creating religious intolerance... so it really does not matter what they are feeling when they do it. People see that and they think the families of 9-11 are still mad at Muslims, now, since these are American Muslims, what else could they be mad at? What are they not tolerating if not Islam? And yes, I refuse, sue me to get embroiled in mind reading of 1000s of people impacted by that event... you don't know how they all feel, just the ones marching in the street.

maybemaybenot -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:39:45 AM)
You do realize that while this Mosque will be 5 blocks away, it will rise up over the buildings, with the crecent moon symbol lit up like a Christmas tree and be a constant reminder to people who suffered losses. I'm fine with you being in support of it, but don't make it sound like it's gong to be a little ol chapel in the pines that couldn't bother a soul. ETA : Is it St. Paul's, the Christian Church built in the 1700's the one you were referencing in your last post to me ? mbmbn

kdsub -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:46:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania How about all the families that are not protesting? So you assume to know their feelings as well? quote: And whether or not they are being intolerant of Islam, it has the same impact of creating religious intolerance... so it really does not matter what they are feeling when they do it. People see that and they think the families of 9-11 are still mad at Muslims, now, since these are American Muslims, what else could they be mad at? Have you ever though it may not be religion they are mad at but the insensitivity of the church elders to those who feel more time is needed to heal the wounds of the city and its victims? quote: And yes, I refuse, sue me to get embroiled in mind reading of 1000s of people impacted by that event... you don't know how they all feel, just the ones marching in the street. Are you blind to the news...can you not see, hear, feel the resentment throughout the country. These are thinking people just like you that manage to see both sides of this issue...or are directly opposed to your views rightly or wrongly... If you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and ignore them be my guess but it will not change reality. Butch

juliaoceania -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:47:12 AM)
It isn't a mosque quote: ETA : Is it St. Paul's, the Christian Church built in the 1700's the one you were referencing in your last post to me ? Yes it was, and my point is that no one owns Ground Zero

juliaoceania -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:56:30 AM)
quote: So you assume to know their feelings as well? I know what their signs say quote: Have you ever though it may not be religion they are mad at but the insensitivity of the church elders to those who feel more time is needed to heal the wounds of the city and its victims? I answered this... it does not matter in the larger scheme of things because the perception is one of religious intolerance and it feeds those who would foment this sort of impression for political gain quote: Are you blind to the news...can you not see, hear, feel the resentment throughout the country. These are thinking people just like you that manage to see both sides of this issue...or are directly opposed to your views rightly or wrongly... If you choose to stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and ignore them be my guess but it will not change reality. Butch Wow, I had no idea I was so powerful as to change the hearts and minds of those who are completely emotionally overwrought by this building being erected that I could change that reality because I am not particularly emotionally impacted by this and I see it as an issue of religious freedom.

maybemaybenot -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:57:33 AM)
Thank You. I was looking for clarification. No, no one owns Ground Zero. A 300 year old Christian Church that is still standing does not allude or infer that Christians or any one else owns it. So I do not understand referencing it. mbmbn

juliaoceania -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 9:58:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot Thank You. I was looking for clarification. No, no one owns Ground Zero. A 300 year old Christian Church that is still standing does not allude or infer that Christians or any one else owns it. So I do not understand referencing it. mbmbn My point is that if this was a Christian cultural center we would not be having this conversation

kdsub -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 10:12:18 AM)
Juliaoceania... how can you read the signs of those that are not protesting...slow down don't get so excited...associate your answers with my words... not what you think I am saying. Forget the politicians a whole different subject sheeesh... think real people and real sentiments... forget perception and think human nature... Don't forget right or wrong I'm not...but understand where they are coming from. This understanding is my whole point... The church elders should have understood and anticipated this reaction... I think they did and are unnecessarily putting there people at risk and they share some of the blame for this fiasco. And finally damn what does it take… I understand your views… I think they are right about religious freedom but this does not mean there are not better ways to attain this freedom. That is why Obama stood out front in their right but refused to comment on their wisdom . Butch

maybemaybenot -> RE: Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center (8/17/2010 10:58:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot Thank You. I was looking for clarification. No, no one owns Ground Zero. A 300 year old Christian Church that is still standing does not allude or infer that Christians or any one else owns it. So I do not understand referencing it. mbmbn My point is that if this was a Christian cultural center we would not be having this conversation quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot I didn't realize it was " Christians " who were opposing this project. I thought it was a mixed bag of people of different faiths and or no faith. And * gasp * even some Muslim folks. mbmbn Juliaoceania : Yet, there is a Christian church right next to Ground Zero...my comments weren't about the protesters _______________________________________________________ Sorry, I didn't see the point you were trying to make in the above reply to me. I still don't but happily take your word that that was your intent. mbmbn

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