Sell me on Islam (Full Version)

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TheRaptorJesus -> Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 2:15:23 AM)

Now, I'm stepping out on a ledge here. As much as it pains me to say this as a free-thinking and open-minded young raptor man... after a conversation with my father (the big Dino upstairs, ya know?) I've come to the conclusion that I'm an Islamophobe.

Please no other people sharing that viewpoint post in here. I don't want to spark a debate. The intent of this post is to hear one side, maybe provide a "How?" or "why?" to that and see where it goes. This is for my benefit, not for anyone to pick fights.

It's not even 9/11 that causes me to feel this way. That actually has very little bearing on my thoughts. That was an act of war/terror carried out by extremists. The majority of Muslims don't condone it. Understandable.

But the way they treat their own people, mainly the women, makes me think of their societies (most of the ones under theocratic rule at least) as little more than barbaric. I know it's not the case in some of the countries in the middle east, like Dubai (which has its own issues of being an infrastructure based on slave labor).

The murders of homosexuals and any "deviants" terrifies me. The calls to murder anyone who defiles the name of their prophet sickens me (even a woman who names a teddy bear muhammed deserves to die?). The fact that "honor killings" are an accepted practice bugs the fuck out of me.

Women being treated as property once they're married makes me shake my head. I know it's not the case with all and my views may be slanted, but it seems to be the case with most according to what I've seen in the media at least.

I want to know if this is all extreme stuff blown out of proportion (which not ALL of it could be) or if people are just being PC when they preach that it's a way of peace and whatnot.

Thank ya.

Edited to add: Mentions of 1800's America or 1950's America won't do anything to sway me. That's not what I'm asking.



pahunkboy -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 4:24:05 AM)

What an interesting post.

Daring - in a way.

I am not interested on converting to Islam.

The draw could be 72 virgins,  which is sort of farfetched.



Moonhead -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 5:27:29 AM)

The virgins thing is probably a mistranslation. A few scholars think that the Prophet really meant sherbert...



Musicmystery -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:13:16 AM)

quote:

But the way they treat their own people, mainly the women, makes me think of their societies (most of the ones under theocratic rule at least) as little more than barbaric.


I don't think you're talking about Islam per se, but rather particular regional cultures.




pahunkboy -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:19:43 AM)

Maybe they feel they are born into it.  It is all pre-set.



GotSteel -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:23:01 AM)

Seeing as we have a rather noticeable lack of Islamic posters around here perhaps you'd be better off having this discussion in an Islamic forum like this one: http://www.gawaher.com/



EbonyWood -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:29:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

Women being treated as property once they're married makes me shake my head.



Some of the Owners on the site weighing in on this point would be interesting....
 
...and any slaves allowed to post.



Elisabella -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:29:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

Now, I'm stepping out on a ledge here. As much as it pains me to say this as a free-thinking and open-minded young raptor man... after a conversation with my father (the big Dino upstairs, ya know?) I've come to the conclusion that I'm an Islamophobe.

Please no other people sharing that viewpoint post in here. I don't want to spark a debate. The intent of this post is to hear one side, maybe provide a "How?" or "why?" to that and see where it goes. This is for my benefit, not for anyone to pick fights.

It's not even 9/11 that causes me to feel this way. That actually has very little bearing on my thoughts. That was an act of war/terror carried out by extremists. The majority of Muslims don't condone it. Understandable.

But the way they treat their own people, mainly the women, makes me think of their societies (most of the ones under theocratic rule at least) as little more than barbaric. I know it's not the case in some of the countries in the middle east, like Dubai (which has its own issues of being an infrastructure based on slave labor).

The murders of homosexuals and any "deviants" terrifies me. The calls to murder anyone who defiles the name of their prophet sickens me (even a woman who names a teddy bear muhammed deserves to die?). The fact that "honor killings" are an accepted practice bugs the fuck out of me.

Women being treated as property once they're married makes me shake my head. I know it's not the case with all and my views may be slanted, but it seems to be the case with most according to what I've seen in the media at least.

I want to know if this is all extreme stuff blown out of proportion (which not ALL of it could be) or if people are just being PC when they preach that it's a way of peace and whatnot.

Thank ya.

Edited to add: Mentions of 1800's America or 1950's America won't do anything to sway me. That's not what I'm asking.


You see barbarism in their culture, they probably see barbarism in ours. Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, etc. - cut up Frankenstein women walking around half naked and intoxicated posing for cameras. Big yellow Best Buys and big blue Wal Marts and big red Targets and neon corporate logos blotting out the stars...do you think an Islamic country, with thousands of years of architectural and mercantile history, can look at our glass boxes as anything but barbarism? What about McDonalds - do they even serve food there or just processed calories?

I wouldn't want to live in their culture but I can see beauty in it as well as flaws. They're only human.



mnottertail -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:33:15 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvfrR0ZU-L4&feature=fvsr



truckinslave -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:34:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Seeing as we have a rather noticeable lack of Islamic posters around here perhaps you'd be better off having this discussion in an Islamic forum like this one: http://www.gawaher.com/


I checked it out. In the "Why Islam" forum, for example, I found the threads "Niggers and Jews" and "Bitches and Ho's In My Burkas, Cuz Thats How I Rolls"

Thanks for the suggestion.

Seriously. You. CANNOT. make this shit up.



Elisabella -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:35:23 AM)

quote:

"Bitches and Ho's In My Burkas, Cuz Thats How I Rolls"


hahahaha



truckinslave -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:41:35 AM)

quote:

You see barbarism in their culture, they probably see barbarism in ours. Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, etc. - cut up Frankenstein women walking around half naked and intoxicated posing for cameras


Yes. They do hate the excesses of Western freedoms.
And want to impose sharia in its stead.

Hard not to see the barbarism in that.



Elisabella -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:49:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Yes. They do hate the excesses of Western freedoms.
And want to impose sharia in its stead.

Hard not to see the barbarism in that.


The extremists want to impose sharia the same way some politicians in the US run on platforms of "Christian values"...I'd imagine the majority of Muslims living in the Middle East aren't terribly interested in conquering or changing a country across the ocean. Muslim progressives in places like Morocco or the UAE who are in love with the skyscrapers and business suits are still unlikely to want to import much of American culture or values, and even more traditional Muslims probably just regard the US with disdain rather than actively wanting to pursue jihad.



Moonhead -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:53:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Yes. They do hate the excesses of Western freedoms.
And want to impose sharia in its stead.

Hard not to see the barbarism in that.


The extremists want to impose sharia the same way some politicians in the US run on platforms of "Christian values"...I'd imagine the majority of Muslims living in the Middle East aren't terribly interested in conquering or changing a country across the ocean. Muslim progressives in places like Morocco or the UAE who are in love with the skyscrapers and business suits are still unlikely to want to import much of American culture or values, and even more traditional Muslims probably just regard the US with disdain rather than actively wanting to pursue jihad.

Certainly the Iranian and Pakistani expatriates who came to the west to get away from Sharia law and honor killing don't want any of that shit over here. That's something a lot of British muslims were very vocal about after the 2005 tube bombings.



MrRodgers -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 7:59:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

You see barbarism in their culture, they probably see barbarism in ours. Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, etc. - cut up Frankenstein women walking around half naked and intoxicated posing for cameras


Yes. They do hate the excesses of Western freedoms.
And want to impose sharia in its stead.

Hard not to see the barbarism in that.

The material indulgences and lifestyle the west has created is very conspicuous indeed to Islam but that is not what this post addresses.

The post specifically pointed out how Islam treats its own people in general and women in particular.

So the concept of stoning people to death for infidelity or hanging 16 yr. old girls for violating their chastity and other very physically violent and brutal forms of violence against women in particular, husbands beating their wives everyday, can and does create in my view...an uncivilized society.

This is practiced by the power of only men in a theocratic govt. that they control. These leaders are of course...all piously innocent and are all living in accordance with Sharia law...ya think ?



pahunkboy -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 8:00:44 AM)

I would hardly compare a music video with stoning someone to death.



windchymes -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 8:28:58 AM)

In my workplace, which is near Washington DC, we have a LOT of employees who are from the Middle East and Africa. Many of them are both practicing and non-practicing Muslims. Some of the women wear burkas (and they can be quite the fashion statement, lol) while others wear jeans and trendy clothing. In other words, some of them are obvious about their religion and others are very low-key.

Some of the ones I know are really good people and have become good friends of mine. We've talked at length at times about the religion, since I knew nothing about it.....except what the media chooses to show us.

As usual, the media shows us the negative, the bizarre, the stuff ratings are made of. The ones I know simply came to this country to work hard, and they do, and to make a better life for themselves and their families. Muslim doesn't automatically equal terrorist.



GotSteel -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 9:09:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
Yes. They do hate the excesses of Western freedoms.
And want to impose sharia in its stead.

Hard not to see the barbarism in that.

I'm not sure that "they" necessarily do, seems like a whole lot of Muslims recently risked their lives in the hope of gaining a more moderate government. But either way if TheRaptoreJesus wants a better understanding of the positions of Muslims talking to actual Muslims will probably be more helpful than talking to us.


[image]local://upfiles/566126/22EBE9CAFCD44AB5A64937EF7D2683CE.jpg[/image]



Musicmystery -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 9:18:06 AM)

quote:

But either way if TheRaptoreJesus wants a better understanding of the positions of Muslims talking to actual Muslims will probably be more helpful than talking to us.


Excellent point.

If we were down with Muslim beliefs and practice to the point of defending them, we'd convert to Islam.

If anyone wants a better understanding of Islam period, not the cultural/political context in current discussion, read Huston Smith's The World's Religions, an excellent and readily affordable paperback with insightful overviews of all the major religions. Then, with a better understanding of what it is, read The Prophet and then the Koran. If nothing else, there will be much to think about.



TheRaptorJesus -> RE: Sell me on Islam (8/18/2010 9:36:52 AM)

I'll have to check those forums out. What prompted this post is that I'll constantly see some of our left-leaning members promote a more tolerant (I hate to use the word in this context and feel like a bigoted sack of shit) view of their cultures but give no reason to other than "They aren't all like that".

Women's rights is just a rather large issue for me, despite my apparent penis, and the mutilation and killings that are condoned or even celebrated leave me with very dark thoughts for the whole region. Got Steel's last post is a good reminder of something that gave me a little cross-cultural hope though. Can't believe I'd forgotten about it.



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