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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/27/2010 11:10:27 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

It's preferable if the person on the recieving end doesn't believe it applies to them in a general sense. However, you could reaffirm their belief and then point out that they are indeed in a degrading/frustrating/humiliating situation, so it applies to them temporarily.

We're assuming that the individual isn't levying comments that reflect their real belief. If the dominant truly feels the submissive is "less than" is it emotional sadism or something more?

quote:

So, converting your example: "For someone who takes such great pride in themselves, how does it feel to let yourself be treated like a "piece of (insert poetic term here)?"

It presented a challenge for me at the time much like slavery did as well. Neither were my natural default. That translated to varying responses that impacted me emotionally, physically, and mentally. I typically dealt with men that enjoyed debasing their property along with humiliation and degradation. However, dealing with me provided an added incentive that allowed them to utilize their toolbox in a different manner. I don't think poorly of myself. Therefore the methods undertaken would have to alter in some way. Even still none of it stuck. There was always a fine line that I refused to cross. One that I defined in my mind between kink and outright nonsense. If it had the potential to cause irreparable harm I always protected myself. What I'm suggesting is it didn't matter what he said or believed. My self knowledge trumped that.

quote:

I was mostly referring to 'frustration' and the examples are different, but fueling any frustration by pointing out the lack of control over the temporary circumstances would likely work, especially for a very self-determined and free-spirited individual.

In my opinion it's a fantasy. Nothing more or less. Persons that you're referencing are more likely to get out of dodge if it ventured into uncomfortable territory. I most certainly wasn't going to grin and bear it if I'd need therapy afterward.

quote:

It would appear that not everyone who does go all out seems to know exactly what they are doing as evidenced by the "harmed" people in these "situations". Not the type of cautious people that read forum posts to begin with (although I hope someone besides me finds this useful)

It was commonplace for me to question and contradict things that didn't sit well with me. Sometimes the other person didn't like it but I wasn't the type to bite my tongue. There's also the feel good part and I don't get off on being miserable. More than this I firmly believe it's my responsibility to cover my ass. And if I knowingly allow someone to trample on it I shouldn't be surprised by the cleanup required afterward. My allegiance to self is far greater than any I'd ever grant to another party.

~porcelaine

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/27/2010 1:59:12 PM

Twoshoes

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I do see most of this as fantasies which require the willingness to participate of both individuals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
However, dealing with me provided an added incentive that allowed them to utilize their toolbox in a different manner.

I'm sure dealing with you fully tested their creativity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
It presented a challenge for me at the time much like slavery did as well. Neither were my natural default.

I apologize if this question is too personal, but what did you ultimately gain out of challenging yourself in this manner?

I sometimes wonder if I should do the same in order to test my own resolve. (I'm not submissive either.)

NuevaVida:
It could be a of lack empathy or a choice to ignore it; either way, that is quite terrible.

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/27/2010 2:18:41 PM >

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/27/2010 7:51:43 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

I'm sure dealing with you fully tested their creativity.

Or gave them headaches also.

quote:

I apologize if this question is too personal, but what did you ultimately gain out of challenging yourself in this manner?

I'm driven and enjoy pushing myself beyond my comfort zone. Being a slave and allowing someone else to take the reins provided a unique experience that tested my mettle and stretched me mentally in ways that I wouldn't have encountered in a dominant role. There was also the sacrificial element and the suppression of ego in deference for something greater. For the longest time it was a defining part of my person and an indelible imprint on my life. Separating the two was next to impossible. Slavery was my vocation and the vehicle for a degree of unselfish giving that I may never realize again. I had an unwavering need to make others better in some way. Much of that was realized through mentoring and other activities that fed the need to give of myself.

On a personal note it softened me. I was far more vulnerable, open, and verbally demonstrative. My perspective regarding risks and what relationships entailed shifted a great deal. Overall it was a different way of being. Almost a diametric opposite to the life I knew beforehand. I take away far more than I entered with. And in the end I changed and grew. I'm not the same person I was when this all began. Nor would I deny myself the experiences either. In a roundabout way I needed them.

quote:

I sometimes wonder if I should do the same in order to test my own resolve. (I'm not submissive either.)

I don't see it that way. It was something internally manifested that morphed into more than I ever anticipated. I didn't intend to slip down the rabbit's hole but once I arrived it was an amazing "something" that I needed to explore much further. Leaving it behind was difficult and the process was nearly a year in the making. I wrestled, grieved, and finally reached a point of acceptance. I realized it had served its purpose and my passion was no longer there. I don't see that as something negative but a realization that it was time to move forward and embrace tomorrow. My time in Eden was over and the question posed had been answered. I have fond memories to carry with me.

~porcelaine

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/27/2010 11:37:56 PM

Twoshoes

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Thank you for sharing your experience; I can relate to some of your motivations.

Also, beautiful self-awareness from an INTJ.

(Apologies to everyone else for the slight derailement/needless bump.)

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/28/2010 12:25:32 AM >

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/27/2010 11:59:36 PM

FetishRose

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For me (imho and all that), emotional sadism is NEVER good. It means emotional abuse. While physical sadism, which I love, may be seen as abuse to others, I am able to recognize that some may like emotional sadism.
Hitting me with a belt....yummy. Telling me I'm not good enough/pretty enough for X, Y, or Z is just mean, and I wouldn't be with someone who engaged in that.
Never liked humiliation for that reason. I have no desire to be humiliated...I want someone who cherishes me and lifts me up.

I am sure others have far more positive experiences/views on it, and I am curious to read them. But for me, no way.

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/28/2010 6:48:23 PM

CaringandReal

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Emotional sadism has positive connotations for me. It's a part of a dominant's arsenal/repetoire that can make me feel even more like the way I love to feel: intensely, thrillingly controlled and alive. My father was emotionally sadistic and I believed that behavior imprinted me, made this sort of thing capable of being percieved as a fun or interesting experience at the same time that it hurts. I often learn interesting things during such play. At very least, it is personally a mixed experience, rather than an entirely negative one. So, due probably to the imprinting (or whatever it is that happens when you're a child and someone you worship does something significant to you), I look for partners who are responsbile but who also enjoy this sort of thing.

I agree with BoiJen. Sadism is sadism, and it would seem artifical to segragate physical sadism from emotional sadism if it weren't for the fact that so many people, both dominants and submissives, are very skittish about the potential devestation that acts of emotional sadism can cause. I can't say the latter is an entirely bad thing--there is the potential for a lot of harm in indulging this flavor of sadism--but I regret that choice made is often toward segragation of experience, even denial that such desires exist.

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/28/2010 8:23:13 PM

subspacepilot2

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Seems like a lot of angst over just what sadism is.

In my book sadism is the act of enjoying the infliction of pain. There is physical pain, emotional pain, economic pain, (24/7 slave) and so on.

If the recipient enjoys the "pain", (which then can be argued to be not pain) be it emotional, physical, or whatever, then most important, if there are not negative repercussions, then I believe one can be a sadist and that an act can be consensual and sane and highly erotic and bonding for both.

Many enjoy being humiliated, exposed, forced, especially within the confines of an act with a trusting and loving partner--the result can be sexual nirvana.

Yet at the same time there is great risk. If such play, even if agreed to, re-stimulates prior abuse, one can accidentally set off a PTSD with dire consequences. To me it's an intriguing "thin-ice" area that requires a close bond, a tremendous ability to be able to communicate, and slow progression since; for instance, the play may be perceived as highly rewarding and erotic, but what if the next day it triggers anxiety, depression or sadness, since repressed abuse may have been buried and now has awakened.

The top especially needs to be always alert to warning signs of re-stimulation. The bottom must be able to communicate--in the absence of the bottom being able to communicate the whole concept is deadly.

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/30/2010 3:04:49 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thatsub

Masochist: Beat me! Beat me!
Sadist: No!

Positively brilliant.

Succinct, hilarious and quite accurate.

Health,
al-Aswad.

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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RE: Emotional sadism - 8/31/2010 10:12:08 PM

came4U

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NuevaVida

quote:

My ex owner was (probably still is) an emotional sadist. It wasn't a game to him; he liked to seriously hurt my feelings and make me suffer for him. At the time, there was something about it I liked. I would challenge myself to see how much I could take. Bad idea, as I found out, because he exceeded it.

He liked to seriously emotionally hurt me. Over time, it did more harm than good.

Others may have different experiences. But this is mine.

Sounds like we had the same guy, haha

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RE: Emotional sadism - 11/15/2010 12:38:43 AM

mons

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hello everyone

I find that i can not do that type of damage! I can dress a person down and but i can not do the name calling like fool or stupid! It is a hard limit for me to abuse someone emotionally! I do enjoy the bad boy emotional thing, my sister and i joke about how someone in the family would say fool and yes i thought it was my name ! LOL but some submissve want too much! They soon forget who has the control and it is a shared expernice for me! I do not like to dress a submisive up and woman clotheings and take him out, i do have a sadist side which suprised me when i looked at me and i enjoy it so much nothing is wrong with that and i enjoy it so much it is arousing for sure! But it is pain but not to the extreme! Name calling is not something i like, i had on submissve as we were talking and as time went on, i found out and i am a blessed person and domme ! I can tell just from someone writing if i have a nut on my hands! He was not a nut as we talked and wrote he asked for things that only someone who is in a deep online mind set would dare ask me and what he wanted he know it was unattainable! When he asked me to have him and i always respect my submissve privcay do to was something i never do! I am not an "online mistress"! I am real and rhar is tthat! Even if a submissive wants something i am not comfrotable with it is not for me! Who knows i may mean someone who is just the right one and i may call him every name in the book but for now no i will stick to my guns and ride it out !

Mons

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