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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 12:30:56 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

The stimulius money is drying up, and what did it get us?


Um, infrastructure...

Did you know that there are places in this country that are ripping up their paved roads because they are BROKE?

Now I know you are blaming Obama for years of poor fiscal policy in this country, but come on, you would either have to be intellectually dishonest to do so, or intellectually deficient

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 12:31:41 PM   
CruelNUnsual


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I don't know what will happen.

But for comparison's sake, Reagan's approval ratings were 10 points lower at this point in his presidency.





Which puts them in a statistical tie, given that Obama couldnt do anything to alienate 90% of 18% of the voters.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 12:34:34 PM   
servantforuse


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Tea party members make their own signs. We won't need a stimulus to vote these losers out. I had dinner last night with someone high up in the democrat party in Wisconsin. Even he says the dems are in big trouble this fall.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 12:34:56 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Which puts them in a statistical tie, given that Obama couldnt do anything to alienate 90% of 18% of the voters.


Are you saying there weren't a certain number of old White crusty people willing to follow Reagan because he played a war hero in a talkie they saw when they were young... seriously.

This is a veiled racist comment....

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 12:37:56 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Tea party members make their own signs. We won't need a stimulus to vote these losers out. I had dinner last night with someone high up in the democrat party in Wisconsin. Even he says the dems are in big trouble this fall.


If the tea party was a real movement they would run their own people instead of trying to hijack the republican party.. I say hijack on, it means republicans will be even more marginalized

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 12:38:01 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Tea party members make their own signs. We won't need a stimulus to vote these losers out. I had dinner last night with someone high up in the democrat party in Wisconsin. Even he says the dems are in big trouble this fall.



You couldn't remember his name? Just more unsubstantiated shit.



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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:03:46 PM   
servantforuse


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Even though he is a democrat, he is a friend and I certainly wouldn't name him on this site.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:05:21 PM   
igor2003


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I just got back from New England after a week and a lot of people up there aren't very "happy" with Obama! (understatement alert.)


There are "a lot of people" that haven't been very happy ever since Obama got elected...even before he actually took office.  And they won't be happy until he is out of office, no matter what is or is not accomplished by the present administration.  I'll admit that I'm not 100% happy with everything Obama has done, but I do believe that things are better now than they would have been had Obama lost the election.

- FR -

That said, I can't help but laugh...If something bad happens like the oil spill it is Obama's fault simply because he was the elected president at the time.  Since he is in power he gets the blame.  Yet if something good happens the reply is, "Oh, that is because of congress, not Obama!", or some other such nonsense.  What a load of crap.

But before you get your knickers in a bunch....yes, both sides do the same thing no matter who is in office.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:08:13 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You couldn't remember his name? Just more unsubstantiated shit.

Unsubstantiated shit, eh? Let's see, what could it be? That the Democrats are scared of November? Or your implication that he's just making it up?

Gee, that's a tough one.

K.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:13:47 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

As Democrats aren't a unified voting block, Republican opposition on matters from public option to economic policy makes a difference.

Yes, and that's the elephant in the room. Cries of Republican "obstructionism" mainly serve the face-saving purpose of diverting attention away from the fact that the Democrats couldn't even unite their own members behind the Party's programs. But instead of manning up and admitting that their initiatives either failed or ended up watered down because they couldn't obtain the unified support of their own Party, we just get this endless finger-pointing at "the Party of 'No'". Fucking bullshit. I don't know how it's possible to have any respect for either of them anymore.

K.



Well, no.

Explain to me how it is possible for a large group of people to be completely united on any issue unless there is a large amount of back room coercion going on.

So I think it is very fair to label Republicans the "the party of no".

I'm not a huge Star Trek fan but I always think back to that movie where they had the Borg collective.  Boehner and McConnell make the decisions and the puppets follow along mindlessly.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:22:52 PM   
CruelNUnsual


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Which puts them in a statistical tie, given that Obama couldnt do anything to alienate 90% of 18% of the voters.


Are you saying there weren't a certain number of old White crusty people willing to follow Reagan because he played a war hero in a talkie they saw when they were young... seriously.

This is a veiled racist comment....

If you think that analyzing the actual vote in the 2008 election is racist (veiled or otherwise), then you are overly sensitive and see things through a racist prism of your own.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:23:05 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You couldn't remember his name? Just more unsubstantiated shit.

Unsubstantiated shit, eh? Let's see, what could it be? That the Democrats are scared of November? Or your implication that he's just making it up?

Gee, that's a tough one.

K.




Fairly obvious what I was alluding to. Could the Dems have a tough November? It's a distinct possibility.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:38:59 PM   
Jeffff


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If things are still in the shitter 2 years from now, will all these folks want a change again?

4 years?, 6? How many years of a republican controlled congress would be enough?

The party comes above all else.

Dogma supersedes thought.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:52:25 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

If you think that analyzing the actual vote in the 2008 election is racist (veiled or otherwise), then you are overly sensitive and see things through a racist prism of your own


I think it is a way to negate the entire vote of 2008 by making a false point that black people shouldn't count as much as white people do when it comes to a voting block... you are insinuating that they aren't "real" americans by stating if we discount their vote the percentage of approval would go down... how would you feel if I said we should just negate every white cousin dater in the south? They predominantly vote conservative after all

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 1:54:27 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Explain to me how it is possible for a large group of people to be completely united on any issue unless there is a large amount of back room coercion going on.

We're not talking about a group of people chosen at random, yanno. We're talking about an organized national political party with a platform and goals that cannot be achieved if its nominal "members" don't agree with them and won't vote for them. Your notion that party unity equates to mindless puppetry is just sour grapes.

K.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 4:23:13 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Explain to me how it is possible for a large group of people to be completely united on any issue unless there is a large amount of back room coercion going on.

We're not talking about a group of people chosen at random, yanno. We're talking about an organized national political party with a platform and goals that cannot be achieved if its nominal "members" don't agree with them and won't vote for them. Your notion that party unity equates to mindless puppetry is just sour grapes.

K.


The Democratic party has never required lockstep acceptance of some set of principles. There are soical and fiscal conservatives who identify as Democrats, what choice do they have really the GOP has gone so far right that no one who is simply right of center is acceptable, and there are social and fiscal progressives.

To complain when Democrats do not vote as a bloc on every issue shows a deep failure to understand an elected represenatatives role in a republic.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 4:30:29 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Explain to me how it is possible for a large group of people to be completely united on any issue unless there is a large amount of back room coercion going on.

We're not talking about a group of people chosen at random, yanno. We're talking about an organized national political party with a platform and goals that cannot be achieved if its nominal "members" don't agree with them and won't vote for them. Your notion that party unity equates to mindless puppetry is just sour grapes.

K.



Why would you applaud a party that votes in complete unison with each other?

To me that indicates either a complete lack of independent thought or a complete desire for the support of the party to be re-elected.

They are supposed to represent the people not the party, and while I understand those things often coincide it is ridiculous that there are bills without one single Republican member of Congress voting for them.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 4:33:45 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

To complain when Democrats do not vote as a bloc on every issue shows a deep failure to understand an elected represenatatives role in a republic.

I don't recall anyone suggesting that they had to vote in lockstep unity on every fucking issue, and I suspect the reason for that is nobody said it.

K.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 4:37:36 PM   
Hillwilliam


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My favorite one of the bunch that should resonate with tea partiers is that more illegal immigrants have been deported in the last 2 years with the Obama/Democrat congress package than were under EIGHT years of Dubya.

I didnt believe it either till I looked up the actual numbers.

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RE: Obama's Accomplishments - 8/20/2010 4:44:28 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

My favorite one of the bunch that should resonate with tea partiers is that more illegal immigrants have been deported in the last 2 years with the Obama/Democrat congress package than were under EIGHT years of Dubya.

I didnt believe it either till I looked up the actual numbers.


Thats because many people have very selective memory.
President Bush loved illegal immigration so much and slept in bed with corporations, that he did everything but go to Central America and drive them across the border to Texas in his truck.
I really believe George Bush would have done it if he could, maybe that is what he is doing now.

Want me to dig up some old Bush speeches?
My favorite is when he talks about people doing the jobs that Amerikans don't want to do.

So many forget policies, speeches, and what was done and said in the past 10 years I feel I must be in the Matrix.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/george_w__bush_immigration.htm

excerpts from the above link below, why am I one of the few that remember what George Bush said and did in regards to immigration, were you all taking the blue pill during this time?

President of the United States, Former Republican Governor (TX)
President George Bush and his immigration speeches and polices


It's time to permit temporary guest workers
America's immigration system is outdated, unsuited to the needs of our economy and to the values of our country. We should not be content with laws that punish hardworking people and deny businesses willing workers and invite chaos at our border. It is time for an immigration policy that permits temporary guest workers to fill jobs Americans will not take, that rejects amnesty, that tells us who is entering and leaving our country, and that closes the border to drug dealers and terrorists.
Source: 2005 State of the Union Speech Feb 2, 2005

Temporary workers ok, but no amnesty
Q: What should we do about the 8,000 people cross our borders illegally every day?
BUSH: We're increasing the border security of the US. There ought to be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer, so long as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up. I don't believe we ought to have amnesty. I don't think we ought to reward illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. If they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too. And here is where my opponent and I differ. In September 2003, he supported amnesty for illegal aliens.

KERRY: We need a guest-worker program. We need is to crack down on illegal hiring. And thirdly, we need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.

Source: Third Bush-Kerry Debate, in Tempe Arizona Oct 13, 2004

A time-limited worker card for the illegal immigrants
Q: At least 8,000 people cross our borders illegally every day. How do you see it? And what do we need to do about it?
A: We're increasing the border security of the US. We've got 1,000 more Border Patrol agents on the southern border. We're using new equipment. We're using unmanned vehicles to spot people coming across. We'll continue to do so over the next four years. They're coming here to work. In order to take pressure off the borders, in order to make the borders more secure, there ought to be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer to mate up, so long as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up in order to be able to fulfill the employers' needs. It makes sure that the people coming across the border are humanely treated, that they're not kept in the shadows of our society, that they're able to go back and forth to see their families. The card it'll have a period of time attached to it. It also means it takes pressure off the border.

Source: Third Bush-Kerry debate, in Tempe AZ Oct 13, 2004

Don't believe we ought to have amnesty
BUSH: I don't believe we ought to have amnesty. I don't think we ought to reward illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. And we ought not to crowd these people ahead of them in line. If they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too. Kerry supported amnesty for illegal aliens.
KERRY: The borders are more leaking today than they were before 9/11. We haven't done what we need to do to toughen up our borders, and I will. We need a guest-worker program, but if it's all we have, it's not going to solve the problem. We need to crack down on illegal hiring. It's against the law in the US to hire people illegally, and we ought to be enforcing that law properly. We need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.

Source: Third Bush-Kerry debate, in Tempe AZ Oct 13, 2004

Support temporary worker program but oppose amnesty
I ask Congress to reform our immigration laws so they reflect our values and benefit our economy. I propose a new temporary-worker program to match willing foreign workers with willing employers when no Americans can be found to fill the job. This reform will be good for our economy, because employers will find needed workers in an honest and orderly system. A temporary-worker program will help protect our homeland, allowing border patrol and law enforcement to focus on true threats to our national security.
I oppose amnesty, because it would encourage further illegal immigration and unfairly reward those who break our laws. My temporary-worker program will preserve the citizenship path for those who respect the law, while bringing millions of hardworking men and women out from the shadows of American life.

Source: 2004 State of the Union address to joint session of Congress Jan 20, 2004

New temporary worker program includes illegal aliens
President Bush, saying the nation has failed millions of illegal immigrants who live in fear of deportation, yesterday proposed an ambitious plan that would allow undocumented workers to legally hold jobs in the US for the first time. The program that would bestow temporary legal status for at least 6 years on 8 million undocumented immigrants, as long as they keep their jobs. But it would not automatically put them on a path to obtaining citizenship or even permanent resident status.
"We must make our immigration laws more rational, and more humane," Bush told 200 Latino supporters attending his first White House announcement of the election year. "I believe we can do so without jeopardizing the livelihoods of American citizens." What Bush calls his "temporary worker" program was eagerly embraced by business groups but condemned as stingy and impractical by advocates for immigrants. Many said it has little chance of passing Congress in the form Bush described.

Source: Mike Allen, Washington Post, p. A1 Jan 8, 2004

Mexico: immigration reform in exchange for oil development
Bush envisioned a Mexican border open to labor, to trade, and open to investment-especially investment in energy. Mexico had banned foreign investment in its energy industry in 1938, and ever since, Mexican oil production has been controlled by the creaky, corrupt, and polluting state monopoly, Pemex. If Mexico opened itself to the exploration and development of its oil resources by American entrepreneurs & technology, Mexican oil might possibly displace Arab oil from the US market altogether.
For this energy "quid," Mexico would of course demand some equally valuable "quo"-and in Bush's mind that "quo" was immigration reform. Bush believed that immigration was valuable to the US and praised it again and again in public speeches and his private conversations.

So the Bush administration designed a system for regularizing the Mexican-US labor relationship-not an amnesty like that of 1986, but a grander system for enabling Mexicans to work in the US temporarily and then to go home again.

Source: The Right Man, by David Frum, p. 84-85 Jun 1, 2003

Respect other languages, but teach all children English
Q: Should English be made the country’s official language?
A: The ability to speak English is the key to success in America. I support a concept I call English-plus, insisting on English proficiency but recognizing the invaluable richness that other languages and cultures brings to our nation of immigrants. In Texas, the Spanish language enhances and helps define our state’s history. My fundamental priority is results. Whether a school uses an immersion program or a bilingual program, whichever effectively teaches children to read and comprehend English as quickly as possible, I will support. The standard is English literacy and the goal is equal opportunity - all in an atmosphere where every heritage is respected and celebrated.

Source: Associated Press Nov 1, 2000

$500M to cut INS application time to 6 months
Expanding on a proposal to improve the INS, Bush pledged $500 million in new spending yesterday to cut the time needed to process an immigration application to an average of six months. Bush said the process now takes three to five years. Late last year, the INS announced that average times had been reduced from two years to 12 months, and were headed lower.
’’We will bring to the INS a new standard of service and a culture of respect,’’ Bush said. The new spending, to be doled out over five years, is the latest part of an INS overhaul plan that Bush’s campaign believes will resonate with Latino voters. ‘’We’ve got an INS that is too bureaucratic, too stuck in the past,’’ he said.

Last week, Bush announced that he wants to split the INS into two agencies: one for legitimate immigrants and one for border enforcement. He also proposed allowing relatives of permanent residents to visit the US while their own immigration papers are being processed.

Source: Paul Shepard, Associated Press, in Boston Globe, page A12 Jul 6, 2000

Welcome Latinos; immigration is not a problem to be solved
Latinos come to the US to seek the same dreams that have inspired millions of others: they want a better life for their children. Family values do not stop at the Rio Grande. Latinos enrich our country with faith in God, a strong ethic of work, community & responsibility. We can all learn from the strength, solidarity, & values of Latinos. Immigration is not a problem to be solved, it is the sign of a successful nation. New Americans are to be welcomed as neighbors and not to be feared as strangers.
Source: Speech in Washington, D.C. Jun 26, 2000

Make INS more “immigrant friendly”
Bush [would] divide the INS into two agencies: one to deal with the enforcement components of border protection and interior enforcement, and another to deal with the service components of naturalization. Bush will change the INS policy so that spouses & minor children of permanent residents can apply for visitor visas while their immigration applications are pending. He will reverse the presumption that such family members will violate their terms of admission, and will encourage family reunification.
Source: Speech in Washington, D.C. Jun 26, 2000

High tech: More H-1B worker visas; less export controls
Supports meaningful, broad-based tort reform to protect our most innovative companies from frivolous and junk lawsuits
Supports lifting the current limit on H-1B visas; believes long term solution to the shortage of high tech workers is education
Called for reforming the high tech export control system by allowing American companies to sell products in the international marketplace when these products are readily available in foreign or mass markets
Source: GeorgeWBush.com: ‘Issues: Policy Points Overview’ Apr 2, 2000

Farm policy: Open markets abroad; more H-2A worker visas
Calls upon European Union to abide by the rules of the World Trade Organization and allow importation of genetically modified farm products
Would work aggressively to open markets for U.S. products and producers
Supports reviewing and expanding the H-2A temporary agriculture workers program so that willing workers can provide much needed help to America’s farmers
Source: GeorgeWBush.com: ‘Issues: Policy Points Overview’ Apr 2, 2000

Latinos enrich us; family values go past Rio Grande
Latinos have come to the US to seek the same dreams that have inspired millions of others: they want a better life for their children. Family values do not stop at the Rio Grande River. Latinos enrich our country with faith in God, a strong ethic of work and community and responsibility. Immigration is not a problem to be solved; it is the sign of a successful nation. New Americans are not to be feared as strangers; they are to be welcomed as neighbors.
Source: Reforming the INS, in “Renewing America’s Purpose” Feb 9, 2000

More border guards to compassionately turn away Mexicans
We must do a better job of stopping those who seek to come into our country illegally. I support strict border enforcement programs such as Operation Hold the Line, which concentrate border patrol officers and resources at known border-crossing points. I believe it is far more compassionate to turn away people at the border than to attempt to find and arrest them once they start living in our country illegally.
Source: “A Charge to Keep”, p.237. Dec 9, 1999

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/20/2010 5:03:30 PM >


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As always, To EACH their Own.
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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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