RE: Islamophobia in America

RE: Islamophobia in America (Full Version)

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truckinslave -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/21/2010 10:06:14 PM)
quote: Muslim history had nothing to compare to the Spanish Inquisition, Read any of the news out of north Africa in the past couple decades. I wonder about, and do not comprehend, the mind that uses ancient history to set up a false moral equivalence to current hatred and atrocity. Bizarre.

thornhappy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/21/2010 10:13:17 PM)
In this vein, has anyone seen the articles today about Al-Quaeda and related organizations using the 51 Park uproar as anti-US propaganda?

truckinslave -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/21/2010 10:37:58 PM)
I haven't, and would give it the shortest of shrift. That our enemies would call strength, weakness, does not surprise me. Ever heard of taqiyya? Kitman? Remember Baghdad Bob? Know anything about the role of deceit in Arab mythology? It surprises me that anyone would take much of what is printed or said in the Middle East for our consumption at any value at all. Walid Shoebat has been quite eloquent on the subject, and yes, imo, he would know.

luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 2:12:18 AM)
Julia, it is Jlf, who thinks that, not I. So jlf thinks allowign the subjugated to live(as long as the subjugated know thier place and obey all the Dhimi rules) is the same as Freedom. hard to come up with a response to nonsense like that.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 5:24:06 AM)
I get the impression from a few posters that they would not be happy unless every Muslim in America were deported

RacerJim -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 5:44:02 AM)
It's not Islamophobia to ask why yet another mosque near ground zero when the Masjid Manhattan mosque is only four blocks from ground zero and the Masjid al-Farah mosque is only 12 blocks from ground zero?

Moonhead -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 5:48:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I get the impression from a few posters that they would not be happy unless every Muslim in America were deported I don't. A few seem to be holding out for "executed".

StrangerThan -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 5:53:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I get the impression from a few posters that they would not be happy unless every Muslim in America were deported I don't think anyone wants them all deported. I do think however, that there is a decent segment of the population who does want people to quit telling us that what we see is not what we see, that what we hear is not what we hear, that what we read is not what we read, that what we have personally experienced is not what we experienced. I think most people will grant you that islam has its peaceful side and its violent side. I think a good portion of the population of the US would also agree that islam needs to clean itself up before presenting itself to the world as a peaceful and compassionate religion. It's kinda like... combing your hair, scrubbing your face, and donning a new pair of pants but wearing shoes covered in dog crap. And yes, we all know how bad Christians have been in the past. I say that, because someone will inevitably link some event from a few centuries ago to highlight reasons why we should all sing camp songs with the one religion most equated with violent activities in the world today.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 5:54:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim It's not Islamophobia to ask why yet another mosque near ground zero when the Masjid Manhattan mosque is only four blocks from ground zero and the Masjid al-Farah mosque is only 12 blocks from ground zero? First, it is not a mosque, it is a community center. A mosque is a place where only worship services can be conducted. 52 Park Center will have a cooking school, a gym and other activities. The top two floors will house a prayer center. Second, the "mosque" four blocks away from ground zero is in the basement of a building and not all of the members can use it at the same time due to its small size.

StrangerThan -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 5:56:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim It's not Islamophobia to ask why yet another mosque near ground zero when the Masjid Manhattan mosque is only four blocks from ground zero and the Masjid al-Farah mosque is only 12 blocks from ground zero? First, it is not a mosque, it is a community center. A mosque is a place where only worship services can be conducted. 52 Park Center will have a cooking school, a gym and other activities. The top two floors will house a prayer center. Second, the "mosque" four blocks away from ground zero is in the basement of a building and not all of the members can use it at the same time due to its small size. Your community center houses a mosque. I don't know why it is so important for some to insist there is no mosque involved with this structure. Isn't there a thread on cognitive dissonance somewhere around here?

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 6:01:11 AM)
A mosque is a place of worship for followers of Islam. Muslims often refer to the mosque by its Arabic name masjid[1] (Arabic: مسجد‎ — Arabic pronunciation: [ˈmæsdʒɪd] (pl. masājid, Arabic: مساجد‎ — [mæˈsæːdʒɪd]), which literally means a place of prostration. The word "mosque" in English refers to all types of buildings dedicated for Islamic worship although there is a distinction in Arabic between the smaller, masjids dedicated for daily five prayers and the larger masajid where the daily five prayers and the Friday congregation sermons are held (مسجد جامع, masjid jāmi‘), which is attended by more people and play more roles such as teaching Qur'an. The community center cannot house a mosque. At most it is a masjid, or a prayer center. There is a distinction. By your argument, a hospital with a chapel is a church.

StrangerThan -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 6:12:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 A mosque is a place of worship for followers of Islam. Muslims often refer to the mosque by its Arabic name masjid[1] (Arabic: مسجد‎ — Arabic pronunciation: [ˈmæsdʒɪd] (pl. masājid, Arabic: مساجد‎ — [mæˈsæːdʒɪd]), which literally means a place of prostration. The word "mosque" in English refers to all types of buildings dedicated for Islamic worship although there is a distinction in Arabic between the smaller, masjids dedicated for daily five prayers and the larger masajid where the daily five prayers and the Friday congregation sermons are held (مسجد جامع, masjid jāmi‘), which is attended by more people and play more roles such as teaching Qur'an. The community center cannot house a mosque. At most it is a masjid, or a prayer center. There is a distinction. By your argument, a hospital with a chapel is a church. I'm not positing an argument. I'm commenting on what has been published in every news outlet in the country. Even those screaming IT"S NOT A MOSQUE, contain the disclaimer somewhere down inside, in small print of course, the words.... a mosque. So now you want me to ignore the fact there is a mosque embedded since it doesn't specifically meet the Arab definition of a mosque? Lol. I swear. See? It's that telling me that what I read, see, hear, and have experienced thing. I guess though, every news outlet in the country is wrong and you're right.

truckinslave -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 10:35:28 AM)
If if if they are here legally, why should they go away? We allow other hateful groups; why pick on just them. But this assumption that they are deserving of more respect than the KKK is just fanciful. They need to be marginalized and watched just like any other intolerant, violent, subversive group.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 11:05:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan I'm not positing an argument. I'm commenting on what has been published in every news outlet in the country. Even those screaming IT"S NOT A MOSQUE, contain the disclaimer somewhere down inside, in small print of course, the words.... a mosque. So now you want me to ignore the fact there is a mosque embedded since it doesn't specifically meet the Arab definition of a mosque? Lol. I swear. See? It's that telling me that what I read, see, hear, and have experienced thing. I guess though, every news outlet in the country is wrong and you're right. I have been following this little right wing conservative bullshit storm since it started. And NO ONE supporting the project has said anything about there being a mosque involved in the project, what everyone is saying is that the top TWO floors will be dedicated PRAYER space. If such a statement has actually been made, please by all means, post the link and source.

Rule -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 11:10:58 AM)
http://www.collarchat.com/m_3372364/tm.htm

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 11:24:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave If if if they are here legally, why should they go away? We allow other hateful groups; why pick on just them. But this assumption that they are deserving of more respect than the KKK is just fanciful. They need to be marginalized and watched just like any other intolerant, violent, subversive group. The same could be said for the militia groups in the US, the religious right anti abortion extremists, or to put it more bluntly, about half of the ultra conservative base the Republicans depend on.

Rule -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 11:32:42 AM)
That is what tis said.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 12:00:32 PM)
Who spoke these words? "We are here to assert the Islamic conviction of the moral equivalency of our Abrahamic faiths. If to be a Jew means to say with all one's heart, mind and soul Shma` Yisrael, Adonai Elohenu Adonai Ahad; hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One, not only today I am a Jew, I have always been one, Mr. Pearl. If to be a Christian is to love the Lord our God with all of my heart, mind and soul, and to love for my fellow human being what I love for myself, then not only am I a Christian, but I have always been one Mr. Pearl. And I am here to inform you, with the full authority of the Quranic texts and the practice of the Prophet Muhammad, that to say La ilaha illallah Muhammadun rasulullah is no different. It expresses the same theological and ethical principles and values."

StrangerThan -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 12:06:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan I'm not positing an argument. I'm commenting on what has been published in every news outlet in the country. Even those screaming IT"S NOT A MOSQUE, contain the disclaimer somewhere down inside, in small print of course, the words.... a mosque. So now you want me to ignore the fact there is a mosque embedded since it doesn't specifically meet the Arab definition of a mosque? Lol. I swear. See? It's that telling me that what I read, see, hear, and have experienced thing. I guess though, every news outlet in the country is wrong and you're right. I have been following this little right wing conservative bullshit storm since it started. And NO ONE supporting the project has said anything about there being a mosque involved in the project, what everyone is saying is that the top TWO floors will be dedicated PRAYER space. If such a statement has actually been made, please by all means, post the link and source. Maybe you should listen to other sources, like your president, NPR, ABC, oh hell, pick one. What you will find is mosque used in synonymous terms with the structure. From NPR "Right now, it’s a visceral feeling — this is a place where Americans died," Lombardo says, despite the fact that it is a misconception that the Islamic center, which would include a mosque at the site of what used to be a Burlington Coat Factory outlet, would sit on ground zero. From ABC The proposed center is two blocks from the site of the World Trade Center. It has often been referred to as the "Ground Zero Mosque," although its supporters say it would mainly be a community center, not principally a mosque. From your president "the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances." People screaming no mosque are ignoring virtually the entire body of reporting done on it in order to cling to some technicality. This is Orwellian double-speak at its best. I posted a ton of links on another thread to show this once before, and it is the last time I will do your fucking research for you. Edited to add, I tried to stick to the left of reporting services - mostly because I know anything not left of common sense will be immediately derided. So deride your own folks if you wish.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 12:12:07 PM)
That means, according to the definition given by jlf, that all those sources used the wrong terminology. Calling a melon a lemon don't make it a lemon.

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