RE: Islamophobia in America

RE: Islamophobia in America (Full Version)

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truckinslave -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 3:07:49 PM)
You think I defend that?? You think I would leave my (grand) children alone for two minutes with a Catholic priest? If you do you think wrong.

SaintIntensity -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 3:18:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave When Christians want to kill my children I'll equate them with Muslims. look outside ... see that stranger passing by? the one looking at your house, the one noting the kids' toys in the yard? He may want to kill your children. Or worse. He may just want to rob and kill you, and the kids are a bonus. Hey, this IS American, right? Of all the threats to your kids, Muslim extremists probably won't make the Top 10. Your paranoia is a victory for bad people everywhere. Fear is the new American religion - and you embrace it neatly. Better a foreign, identifiable (ie considerately coloured) foe than the ones (the REAL ones) that you are within yards of you, every day of your terrified life. Sleep well, terrified America. They ARE all out to get you.

thornhappy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 3:35:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: The Bible is probably just as full of violence but it's the individual interpretation that counts No. To most of us its the New Testament that counts. That, and/or current events. Say, violence less than 50 years old. Until it comes to gays. 50 years old only carries you back to the '60s. That's not very long ago. By that reasoning, you could disregard KKK activities, Bull Connor and his fire hoses, etc.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 3:54:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave You think I defend that?? You think I would leave my (grand) children alone for two minutes with a Catholic priest? If you do you think wrong. July 15, 2010 Amish leaders in Michigan learn from sex abuse case near Seymour MO Monday, August 02, 2010 Episcopal leaders taking steps to address sex abuse by clergy quote: According to the survey, 61 percent of Canadians trust church representatives, far below the 97 percent who trust firefighters and the 94 percent who trust nurses. The good news in this poll, if there is any, is that clergy still rank above the pollsters themselves (59 percent), journalists (48 percent) and politicians (just 15 percent). Small comfort it seems. Although this particular story doesn’t report it, without a doubt, the trustworthiness of clergy in the United States has suffered a similar sharp decline in recent years. Most of this, of course, is related to the well-documented clergy sexual abuse crisis. And while Catholic priests have received most of the attention, there have been abuses and scandals in just about every church and denomination – evangelicals, mainline Protestants, Jewish, Muslim, and homemade religions to be sure. When Preachers fall from Grace

thornhappy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 5:44:50 PM)
Say, anyone else see the video of a guy that ended up getting hassled by the anti-Park51 crowd? He's black and was wearing a kufi (skullcap common among several religions in Africa, and among a variety of men here. I've seen them worn by various men around several campuses.) Evidently the guy's a union steelworker working on the WTC site. I found it on LittleGreenFootballs. I'm wondering if folks are going to say the guy incited it, was a liberal plant, etc. et al. Or if Breitbart's going to host it on his site. Or how far it's going to spread on cable or talk radio. It'll be interesting to hear more about it; I'm thinking folks will sit back a bit before broadcasting (there were a hell of a lot of cameras there.) Here's the link and this was the caption: "A man walks through the crowd at the Ground Zero protest and is mistaken as a Muslim. The crowd turns on him and confronts him. The man in the blue hard hat calls him a coward and tries to fight him. The tall man who I think was one of the organizers tried to get between the two men. Later I caught up with the man who’s name is Kenny. He is a Union carpenter who works at Ground Zero. We discussed what a scary moment that was for him. I told him that I hoped it did not ruin his day."

Aneirin -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 6:41:34 PM)
FR Am just wondering here, who or what is America going to identify next as the bogeyman to keep the taxes being poured into the military whilst your countrymen suffer hard times or maybe even starve. The bogeyman exists to keep the rich rich and the poor poor, it is the wall between the classes in America. Classes, yes, that once and still fascination of the Brits has infected the US too, for the US increasingly is being seen as a society of classes.

StrangerThan -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 8:01:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I get the impression from a few posters that they would not be happy unless every Muslim in America were deported I don't think anyone wants them all deported. The 'Right' most certainly wants them deported. Including those who are US Citizens; just remove their citizenship, and then remove them. Or do you want to try to argue the 'right' in this country, DOESNT, have the grand majority of racists, conspiracists, militiamen, or delusional people, on its side? Rather then hold them accountible, they embrace and encourage the attitudes. Heck, they are pouring money so This nutjob can run for public office. quote: ORIGINAL Strangerthan I do think however, that there is a decent segment of the population who does want people to quit telling us that what we see is not what we see, that what we hear is not what we hear, that what we read is not what we read, that what we have personally experienced is not what we experienced. Like These Anti-'Fox News' Guys? Or how about these guys? quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan I think most people will grant you that islam has its peaceful side and its violent side. Just like any other religion in the world, big or small. Or have you already forgotten These Guys, in American History? quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan I think a good portion of the population of the US would also agree that islam needs to clean itself up before presenting itself to the world as a peaceful and compassionate religion. Just like Republicans should clean up their act? Just like conservatives should clean up their act?. How about the Tea Party Movement cleans up its act? Just like Christinas should clean up their act? Or are you trying to say, that only those of the Islamic faith, have done wrong to the USA in the last twenty years? As each of those groups, are part of the same philosophy: If they dont get what they want, they'll just use Second Amendment Remedies. quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan It's kinda like... combing your hair, scrubbing your face, and donning a new pair of pants but wearing shoes covered in dog crap. .....That is actually pretty good quote, StrangerThan (Take a Bow); to bad for you, the arguement works against you too. quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan And yes, we all know how bad Christians have been in the past. I say that, because someone will inevitably link some event from a few centuries ago to highlight reasons why we should all sing camp songs with the one religion most equated with violent activities in the world today. Why go back a few centuries? None of my links are of events older then 30 years. Only someone promoting hatred, anger, violence, and suffering, would make a claim like this. You should really study about The Sith Lords. Those guys, while fictional, are based on alot of real world history, concepts, and religious/political outlooks of the world. They deal in absolutes: Good vs. Evil, Right vs. Wrong, Truth vs. Fact (ironic, eh?). You know who The Sith, most remind me of, StrangerThan? These guys! I will most certainly argue that the majority of conspirators and racists is not on the right. There are more conspiracy theories here than I've ever heard of anywhere. As far as racists go, the left can't see anything but. The rest of the world will never manage to look at a man as a man or a woman as a woman as long as there's a liberal in the room. You and jt both assume that my issue with this mosque/cultural center is based on religion or politics. That means you both can pull your head out of your asses. As I have stated many times in this debate, it is not about religious tolerance, not about any hatred of islam, nor about politics in general. It is that this structure is at the wrong place, at the wrong time. The majority of America is not going to ride this boat with you. Insisting that they do so, insisting they ignore an islamic place of worship being constructed near ground zero, only gives pundits the ammunition they need to point out that supporters who use A) religious tolerance are incredibly and insanely hypocritical as evidenced by the hatred of Christians that they use in defense, B) supporters who insist this is a cultural center only won't answer the simple questions of if it is, why does it need the islamic tag on it, why does every other reporting organization use mosque synonymously with the structure? and C) why a good portion of those same supporters aren;t supporting the rebuilding of the greek orthodox church.. you want me to keep going? The religious intolerance tact being played out on the left is nothing short of laughable. This structure does not belong here at this point in time. Period. They certainly have the right to build it, but it is incredibly insensitive and downright stupid to go ahead with it. You can take heart though, you have a Hamas founder on your side. Just admit it joe. You hate conservatives. You hate Christians. And the only reason you want to ride this boat is.. I don't know. Tell me why. Tell me why it's so important to you to dig up every piece of crap you can find to support a religion whose practitioners, for the most part, are going to have less tolerance for you than the one you already can't stand. Before you start arguing that point, get off your bottom and get over to the birthplaces of islam and tell them what you think.

StrangerThan -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 8:26:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Maybe you should listen to other sources, like your president, NPR, ABC, oh hell, pick one. What you will find is mosque used in synonymous terms with the structure. From NPR "Right now, it’s a visceral feeling — this is a place where Americans died," Lombardo says, despite the fact that it is a misconception that the Islamic center, which would include a mosque at the site of what used to be a Burlington Coat Factory outlet, would sit on ground zero. From ABC The proposed center is two blocks from the site of the World Trade Center. It has often been referred to as the "Ground Zero Mosque," although its supporters say it would mainly be a community center, not principally a mosque. From your president "the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances." People screaming no mosque are ignoring virtually the entire body of reporting done on it in order to cling to some technicality. This is Orwellian double-speak at its best. I posted a ton of links on another thread to show this once before, and it is the last time I will do your fucking research for you. Edited to add, I tried to stick to the left of reporting services - mostly because I know anything not left of common sense will be immediately derided. So deride your own folks if you wish. And they are all mis stating the purpose of the center. Again, a mosque is a building or structure where only religious services can be held. A mosque cannot contain a community center, a culinary school or a gym. A community center can contain a masjids, which is a place for the five daily prayers required by the Muslim religion. I am sorry that these people do not know the definition, nor do they seem to know anything about the religion in general. Of course, by your very argument, any building that houses a chapel is a church. That would make every hospital a church, the Pentagon becomes a church, the capital becomes a church (the used to hold religious services in the House Chamber.) You're arguing with the wrong person jlf. Today's headline, Associated Press http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nyc_mosque quote from "Around the corner from the cordoned-off old building that is to become a 13-story Islamic community center and mosque, police separated the two groups of demonstrators." Same article quotes the Imam, and his wife. But I'm sure they'll let you define for them what their vision is - especially since you have the mosque dictionary. I'm sure they'd hate to learn they didn't know as much about their religion as you did. Want a win-win situation? Build it, just not there. Fuck it, I'll go to it. If I go twice, it'll about match the times I've been in any other kind of church in the last few years.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 8:37:08 PM)
Nowhere in the AP/yahoo article does Imam Rauf use the word "mosque", as you imply in your second-to-last sentence, stranger.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 8:42:50 PM)
When this all started, the Imam and his wife called it a community center. And having read the article, I see no direct quote of them calling it a mosque. Daisy Khan was on CNN and ABC recently and referred to is as a community center, and in other interviews, said it would be similar to a nearby 'Y.'

Danniela -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 8:45:07 PM)
Interesting. Hello everyone, I've been in Turkey for the past 15 years and I'd like to clear something up. Turkey is -not- a muslim country, it's a republic. We have at least 1 church in (almost) every city and you are free to believe in any religion. Now, even in Turkey there are anti-muslim communities because in some countries Islam is (hopefully) interpreted wrong and their ways are breaking the rules against basic human rights and goes as far to female genital mutiliation. Now that does have to stop. Every religion has violent rules in their book, but as long as the believers limit themselves within the borders of laws and human rights, there is nothing to judge. However if muslim countries are breaking those universal human rights and doing it under the name Islam it is only natural that other nations critisize. please excuse my English. D.

Kirata -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 8:52:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I am sorry that these people do not know the definition, nor do they seem to know anything about the religion in general. I think you should seriously consider informing the Imam and the Cordoba Initiative of their shameful ignorance as soon as possible, before they embarrass themselves further, because the list of Facilities at the planned Park51 center includes "a mosque". K.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 9:00:47 PM)
Kirata, I just read the official homepage of the project, and stand corrected. However, might I point out something that is NOT being noted by anyone about this project? quote: Park51 will grow into a world-class community center, planned to include the following facilities: * outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court) * a 500-seat auditorium * a restaurant and culinary school * cultural amenities including exhibitions * education programs * a library, reading room and art studios * childcare services * a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community * a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all Facilities That still does not give a good enough reason to protest the project.

thornhappy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 9:37:24 PM)
If you want a good look at Islamophobia, check the comments on Fox News.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 9:59:26 PM)
I do believe that there are some who would condemn, vilify, attack, persecute and otherwise ignore the constitution as long as it was all directed at Muslims.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 10:12:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I am sorry that these people do not know the definition, nor do they seem to know anything about the religion in general. I think you should seriously consider informing the Imam and the Cordoba Initiative of their shameful ignorance as soon as possible, before they embarrass themselves further, because the list of Facilities at the planned Park51 center includes "a mosque". K. Interesting. I stand corrected as well. (so easy to get rid of cognitive dissonance!) I imagine that running the prayer room(s) separately would make it a mosque.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 10:32:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy If you want a good look at Islamophobia, check the comments on Fox News. You should see the right-wingnut comments on Daily Kos. I posted two of them here. There are a lot of truly "worms in the brain" Newtshit crazy idiots on the right.

Kirata -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 10:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Kirata, I just read the official homepage of the project, and stand corrected. No problem. Sorry about the sarcastic way I presented the link. K.

Kirata -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 10:47:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Interesting. I stand corrected as well. (so easy to get rid of cognitive dissonance!) If it was easy, trust me, you weren't invested enough in your position to have experienced much cognitive dissonance over it. [:D] K.

jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/22/2010 11:01:04 PM)
Of course, the true purpose of this topic is to discuss the Anti-Muslim hysteria that seems to be taking over the United States. And considering the venom in some people's posts, I think that many would be happier if they (the Muslims) were rounded up and put in camps or deported.

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