RE: Islamophobia in America (Full Version)

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luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 3:23:24 AM)

Further more, I bet most violent crimes accross the board went up last year.

Economic desperation as well as demographics trends both Predictably increase violent crime.



jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 5:26:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Yet your table doesn't indicate an large increase in Islamophobic attacks.

The table seems meaningless. Unless you want to prooe that the islamophbia hysteria is nonsense.

Your table confirms exactly what I said all along, and your initial position denied. Claiming Christians didn't suffer attacks.

Somehow you admit that a lot of your facts and premises are flawed, yet it doesn't change your opinion at all.

18 pages into this, you are still pluralising singular events.

And declaring that an invstigation = guilt.

You are hyping this crap for political gain.

And it is disgusting



Those numbers are from 2008, and I even admitted they had dropped then. I also pointed out that the evidence, as quoted by the Southern Poverty Law Center indicates that this year incidents are on the rise (a fact you seem to ignore, but given your rightwing bias, I expect nothing different from you)

As for me gaining something politically, I doubt that seriously.

However, IF the Republicans politicians would speak out against such incidents, they might go a long way of PROVING that they are the party of the people. However, they are strangely silent. George Bush went on record shortly after 9/11 and said "we are not at war with islam."

Republican Presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich has recently released a film that indicates something different. He has released a nice little film called "America At Risk" in which he and spokespeople for his little endeavor has made it clear that the war is against Islam. check out the trailer here

That is the Republican message, which you clearly support. So much for a country of tolerance.



rulemylife -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 6:42:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Indeed that a significant chunk of the Democrat base is disconected from reality, and can do nothing but change the subject and blame others had a lot do with getting Bush elected.

It shows that the Democratics are empty.

2 years of Filibuster proof controll, and they still are blaming Republicans. Focusing on "talk Radio"

If this stuff wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.


What's hilarious is you cannot even get basic facts correct and you expect to be taken seriously.



samboct -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 6:52:34 AM)

StrangerThan

"They have the right. They will probably come up with the money. The reality of building it there is that it will accomplish something akin to Bush invading Iraq. It will create more animosity than it erases and the reason it does is not a phobia of the religion but that the religion responsible for the attack chooses to put a structure next to the site. "

Actually- let's take another look at the "reality" of the situation. New Yorkers tend to be pretty vocal people. If they're pissed off, you know it- they'll carry signs, blow razzberries, make rude and poorly understood finger and arm gestures etc. So when this prayer center was being planned back in Dec. 2009- where were the protests?

This gets back to my comment about Fox News and Rupert Murdoch wrapping themselves in free speech to deliver propaganda. There wasn't a problem until the Post ran a headline coming up with one! Your claim that this prayer center will lead to increased animosity just ignores the facts- For months- there was no animosity. I think this type of yellow journalism was termed- Tempest in a teapot.

And to BMB- sorry, but any religious organization that doesn't have to pay property taxes gets a handout from all of us. In the long run, the amount of financial support that this prayer center is getting is probably a lot less than a church not in a commercial building.


Sam



Lucylastic -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 6:55:15 AM)

or put it another way
A significant chunk of the republican base is disconnected from reality, and can do nothing but change the subject and blame others, which had a lot do with getting Obama elected.

It shows that the Republicans are empty and wouldnt know how to apologise for their fuck ups if they got a million bucks for every apology.



truckinslave -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 8:58:48 AM)

quote:

Republican Presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich has recently released a film that indicates something different. He has released a nice little film called "America At Risk" in which he and spokespeople for his little endeavor has made it clear that the war is against Islam. check out the trailer here


Newt always has fancied himself a futurist; he is clearly ahead of the curve here.
Gates of Vienna has it right; this is but the latest stage in a very old war.

Ran across this from President Jefferson, re war with Barbary Pirates:
"The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners."

Of course, the war was over 1,000 years old, then. I'm sure they had Islamapologists then too. Somewhere. Plus ca change, and all that.



Sanity -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 9:56:55 AM)


The word Myopic comes to mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Yet your table doesn't indicate an large increase in Islamophobic attacks.

The table seems meaningless. Unless you want to prooe that the islamophbia hysteria is nonsense.

Your table confirms exactly what I said all along, and your initial position denied. Claiming Christians didn't suffer attacks.

Somehow you admit that a lot of your facts and premises are flawed, yet it doesn't change your opinion at all.

18 pages into this, you are still pluralising singular events.

And declaring that an invstigation = guilt.

You are hyping this crap for political gain.

And it is disgusting



thornhappy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 11:20:35 AM)

Sikhs around here (we have a fairly large Indian community) have been mistaken for Muslims, and were hassled in local grocery stores.

Did that come from a liberal news source?  No, it came from my classmates.



jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 1:53:19 PM)

It is a sad fact of life that many on the right will deny the truth of a problem, ignore the problem or minimize the problem.

It was the liberals that pushed the civil rights legislation through congress, a point that the conservatives tried to capitalize on in the next election.

Nearly every major problem in this country has been addressed by liberal legislation, all the time the conservatives fought to put a stop to it.

Why should this problem be any different?



luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 2:00:07 PM)

Thats Jilfs way of surrendering his position with out changing it.

Change the subject.

Boring regular tactic.

You want to hype and exagerate for Political gain.

It's disgusting



jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 2:56:14 PM)

LD, you and the conservatives that deny that there is a problem is what is wrong with this country.

As been reported by polls and other sources, anti-Muslim sentiment in this country is on the rise, the more you deny it the more foolish you and the right looks. source

Of course the right is going to deny there is a problem with islamophobia, the right wing politicians have not said a word for tolerance or religious freedom.

Right wing talking heads have fed the problem by putting all Muslims in the same group, "Extremists and terrorists."

Oh wait, Beck did say that good Muslims would agree with him, Fox has implied that new mosques would be the source for "extremist" views, that the Park 51 project is being funded by terrorists (actually it is being partially funded by their second largest investor.)

Of course, the right did not see a problem with not having the equal rights legislation. Tea Party candidates have condemned the civil rights acts, have condemned new mosques, not only at Park 51, but in Murfeesboro TN.

It would seem that many on the right would prefer a Christian country with a theocracy running the show.



luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 3:04:48 PM)


"People are making a mistake of believing what the media points to as real," Wallis said. "All you have to do to get attention - whether you're in a cave in Afghanistan or a pastor in Florida - is to be on the extreme.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/11/MNB91FBRIU.DTL#ixzz0zGEHjd3g



The roots of America's continuing "ambivalence" toward Muslims and Islam is rooted in larger forces shaping the culture, said John C. Green, a professor of political science at the University of Akron and expert on the relationship of religion and politics.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/11/MNB91FBRIU.DTL#ixzz0zGEVr700



"We have a long experience with these sorts of problems in the United States, but historically we've been able to assimilate groups pretty successfully," Green said, adding that Catholics and Jews had similar experiences. "But the experience of assimilation is often fraught with conflict. In this sense, Muslims are just the latest new group to encounter this kind of pushback from the groups who are already here - many of whose ancestors experienced the same sort of pushback when they arrived."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/11/MNB91FBRIU.DTL#ixzz0zGEvOQdD




But there are signs of increased acceptance of American Muslims, who represent roughly 1 percent of the population, Green said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/11/MNB91FBRIU.DTL#ixzz0zGF2WShl




Interesting article Jilf. Why do you think it agrees with you?


And I am gettign rather sick of you saying I deny there is any problem. Pointing out that you exxagerate for political gain, is not denying that some hate crimes happen.




jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:05:48 PM)

You pointing out that I am hyping the problem for political gain is ludicrous, the fact that the right wing media keeps making claims of terrorist sponsors for the Park 51 project is truth.

That a right wing Candidate Lou Ann Zelenik says the "Islamic training center" is part of a political movement "designed to fracture the moral and political foundation of Middle Tennessee."

Is a fact.

Sarah Palin calling on all "good" Muslims to refudiate (her new word) the Park 51 Project is fact, along with her joining forces with Pamela Geller and the raving anti-Muslim Bigot Brigade at last! Her new Twitter post calls on “peaceful Muslims” to “refudiate” (yes, she really said it again and no, it doesn’t seem to be a joke) the “Ground Zero mosque.”

Fact.

Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey publicly criticized the project. "You could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, way of life, a cult, whatever you want to call it," Ramsey, then a candidate for Tennessee governor, said at a rally.

Fact.

The truth is that the right is pushing this anti-Muslim sentiment for political gain, trying to prove that Islam is the enemy.




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:12:34 PM)

well ok you can chase your tail, not adress any of my retorts and keep changing the subject.

Those people can say whatever they like, it's America.

Doesn't change you exxagerating for pages. I know Left wing activists told you to be very scared of the Evil Republicans, like Harry Reid....


you know Jilf, if you quit pretending this is a right/ left rep v dem issue.

your claims might have some merit.

How about a list of people left wingers and Dems who think its a bad idea to put it there.

You are blatantly being one sided and political about the issue (as well as exxagerating and plain making things up).

And it is disgusting.



Aneirin -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:14:24 PM)

America needs an an enemy, can it not exist without an enemy, can anyone suggest a time in American history where there was no enemy ?



thishereboi -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:25:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

America needs an an enemy, can it not exist without an enemy, can anyone suggest a time in American history where there was no enemy ?


Yea, we should have followed Britians example. Throughout history they have been known for staying inside their own borders and just being happy minding their own business[8|]



Sanity -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:38:00 PM)


Sounds more like youre describing the Islamofascists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

America needs an an enemy, can it not exist without an enemy, can anyone suggest a time in American history where there was no enemy ?



Aneirin -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:41:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Sounds more like youre describing the Islamofascists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

America needs an an enemy, can it not exist without an enemy, can anyone suggest a time in American history where there was no enemy ?



Well, can you?



Owner59 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:42:35 PM)

If it weren`t for the Brits(and those bastard commie soviets),nazi Germany would have taken over Europe and most of Asia,eventually,the world.

And eventually, putting death camps in every community and enslaving most all people.

The Brits didn`t have to do this.They had an out.They were offered to be left alone if they stayed out of the fight and they said fuck you adolph.

God bless them.

Keep that in mind while you bash the Brits.





luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 4:43:32 PM)

after ww 1 the Kellog Briand treaty was enacted outlawing war. Does that count?



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