RE: Islamophobia in America (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 5:38:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

The peeing on the rug was a solitary incident, and was not a hate crime.



Actually considering that alcohol lowers inhibitions, (medically proven) he basically did what he wanted to do, the only thing that had stopped him before was a social conscience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
The cabbie slasher was not a right wing Christian hater.


The cabbie slasher as you refer to him is only one instance and the only instance that you refer to. It is being prosecuted as a hate crime due to his beginning the attack after being told affirmative to his question asking if the driver was Muslim

You failed to note there was at least one other incident, or you did not read the entire thread, but to help you out.

quote:

Sunnyvale: Man attacked for being Muslim, public safety officers say


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Sunnyvale: Man attacked for being Muslim, public safety officers say

By Lisa Fernandez

[email protected]
Posted: 06/14/2010 02:59:34 PM PDT
Updated: 06/14/2010 09:49:40 PM PDT


Sunnyvale public safety officers are trying to track down two young men who struck someone in the face on a busy street, apparently simply for being a Muslim man who was wearing a black cap and holding a Koran.

He might be the third victim in Santa Clara County this year to fall victim to a reported anti-Muslim crime, according to the county's Office of Human Relations. Last year there were none.

"They asked him if he was Jewish, and when he said, "No, I'm a Muslim,' they told him that was worse, you must be a terrorist," said Capt. Dave Verbrugge, a Sunnyvale Public Safety Department spokesman.

Some Jewish men wear a skull cap called a yarmulke or kippah, and some Muslim men customarily wear a cap called a kufi or taqiyah.

The attackers approached the 40-something man on El Camino Real at Sycamore Terrace on Friday. source


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
I do remember you claiming there were no Church Burnings, nor Church Protests, which I disproved with 30 seconds of looking.


I also accepted your statement.


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
But please post the links to multiple Prayer rug peeings.



One Incident of someone peeing on a prayer rug in a mosque.
Desicration, I must point out takes different forms.


There was the vandalism of the Mosque in Hudson NY.

The FBI are investigating a case of Mosque vandalism in Phoenix Arizona as a hate crime, Nashville Police are investigating the vandalism of a mosque in the Nashville area as a hate crime.

A mosque was vandalized in California with anti-Muslim graffiti.

Protesters have brought dogs to Mosques in order to disrupt prayer services.

The simple fact is that all evidence supports a increase in the rate of hate crimes against Muslims, and you really cannot ignore that fact.

Oh, wait, yes you can, but then your bias has been proved a number of times.




truckinslave -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 5:53:45 PM)

quote:

The simple fact is that all evidence supports a increase in the rate of hate crimes against Muslims,

Anecdotes do not- cannot- of themselves amount to evidence of an increase.




jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 6:02:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

The simple fact is that all evidence supports a increase in the rate of hate crimes against Muslims,

Anecdotes do not- cannot- of themselves amount to evidence of an increase.



[snip]ReprintPrint Email Font Resize
Sunnyvale: Man attacked for being Muslim, public safety officers say

By Lisa Fernandez

lfernandez****mercurynews.com
Posted: 06/14/2010 02:59:34 PM PDT
Updated: 06/14/2010 09:49:40 PM PDT


Sunnyvale public safety officers are trying to track down two young men who struck someone in the face on a busy street, apparently simply for being a Muslim man who was wearing a black cap and holding a Koran.

He might be the third victim in Santa Clara County this year to fall victim to a reported anti-Muslim crime, according to the county's Office of Human Relations. Last year there were none.


[/snip]

you go from none to three, okay, you may have a point. Although in the school I went to, 3 is greater than 0

quote:

Without a real-time system for tabulating national crime statistics, it will be a while before we know whether that trend was reversed in 2010. But “anecdotally there is no question that we are seeing a spate of anti-Muslim hate crimes,” says Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Source




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 6:11:07 PM)

I missed you apology for turning the rug peeing into a hate crime and pluralizing it.

Also you pluralise some one bringing a dog to a protest. Not to a mosque to disrupt a service. Or provide some evidence.

You make huge assumptions in declaring that an investigation as a hate crime demonstrates guilt. In fact the idea is nonsense.


Your statement on Alcohol is purile nonsense also. Alcohol can have many different effects and ineract with different sorts of Brain conditions in different ways. Or even if you are correct that his social conscience was stopping him before, it could be for literally thousands of reasons, besides Islamaphobia.

Yet because you need to see it, it is all hate crimes, and plural. You have a need to exagerate this stuff? Why?

You list 6 things none confirmed and one you mistate. Why?


What are the actuall number of Islamophobic incidents? You got any data on that? Maybe I missed it in the list of fake and exagerated stuff you posted. But what is the documented rate in increase in hate crimes against Muslims, adn how does it compare to the rate of hate crimes vs others? and the Crime rate in general?




Elisabella -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 6:14:14 PM)

quote:


What are the actuall number of Islamophobic incidents? You got any data on that? Maybe I missed it in the list of fake and exagerated stuff you posted. But what is the documented rate in increase in hate crimes against Muslims, adn how does it compare to the rate of hate crimes vs others? and the Crime rate in general?


Just to be clear - is it your position that negative sentiment toward Muslims and Islam has not increased at all since 9/11?




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 6:15:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

The simple fact is that all evidence supports a increase in the rate of hate crimes against Muslims,

Anecdotes do not- cannot- of themselves amount to evidence of an increase.



[snip]ReprintPrint Email Font Resize
Sunnyvale: Man attacked for being Muslim, public safety officers say

By Lisa Fernandez

lfernandez****mercurynews.com
Posted: 06/14/2010 02:59:34 PM PDT
Updated: 06/14/2010 09:49:40 PM PDT


Sunnyvale public safety officers are trying to track down two young men who struck someone in the face on a busy street, apparently simply for being a Muslim man who was wearing a black cap and holding a Koran.

He might be the third victim in Santa Clara County this year to fall victim to a reported anti-Muslim crime, according to the county's Office of Human Relations. Last year there were none.


[/snip]

you go from none to three, okay, you may have a point. Although in the school I went to, 3 is greater than 0

quote:

Without a real-time system for tabulating national crime statistics, it will be a while before we know whether that trend was reversed in 2010. But “anecdotally there is no question that we are seeing a spate of anti-Muslim hate crimes,” says Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Source




"Might" does not mean "is".


A good part of what you list as "andecotal evidence" is not true or confirmed.




Still missing you apologizing for pluralising singular events.

and Admiting the Pee on rug thing wasn't a hate crime.




Sanity -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 6:20:21 PM)


Did something happen on 9/11?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Just to be clear - is it your position that negative sentiment toward Muslims and Islam has not increased at all since 9/11?




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 6:20:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:


What are the actuall number of Islamophobic incidents? You got any data on that? Maybe I missed it in the list of fake and exagerated stuff you posted. But what is the documented rate in increase in hate crimes against Muslims, adn how does it compare to the rate of hate crimes vs others? and the Crime rate in general?


Just to be clear - is it your position that negative sentiment toward Muslims and Islam has not increased at all since 9/11?



Did I say that?

Do you for some reason think that there are only 2 positions to be held here?


To be more clear, I think Jilf is exxagerating and being hysterical. As well as declaring guilt before an investigation. And he is doing with a tinderbox issue in the modern world. For Political reasons.

I think being hysterical and exxagerating real problems is damaging. Sort of like crying wolf.

I oppose that.



and I really oppose silly diametric thinking.




truckinslave -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 7:17:39 PM)

Thanks to both you and Mr Potok for making my point for me. The expanded quote:

"Indeed, reported hate crimes targeting Muslims had dropped by more than 75 percent in 2008 since their peak in 2001, according to the FBI. Without a real-time system for tabulating national crime statistics, it will be a while before we know whether that trend was reversed in 2010."





jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 7:42:25 PM)

I do apologize for pluralizing the rug peeing incident.

I also would like you to admit there is a problem in the United States directed at Muslims. I know you wont do that, once more your bias, prejudice and bigotry is well known.



I gave sources for all incidents, the simple fact that you refuse to admit that they actually happened is your problem. If you had read the entire thread instead of just picking out what you want to attack, you would have seen the sources cited.

quote:

Temecula, CA: "Foes of proposed mosques have deployed dogs to intimidate Muslims holding prayer services and spray painted 'Not Welcome' on a construction sign." The AP also reported, "In Temecula, Calif., opponents brought dogs to protest a proposed 25,000-square-foot mosque that would sit on four acres next to a Baptist church. Opponents worry it will turn the town into haven for Islamic extremists, but mosque leaders say they are peaceful and just need more room to serve members." An August 19 Christian Science Monitor article further reported:

source



quote:

An explosion and fire at a Jacksonville mosque is being investigated as a possible hate crime, prompting local religious leaders to condemn the arson as a “cowardly” act and issue calls for tolerance.

What happened Monday night has caused more emotional than physical damage to the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida.

The mosque’s vice chairman, Ashrad Shaikh , said he settled in Jacksonville 36 years ago because he felt welcome and safe here. Now he’s feeling fear and anger.

“I thought we were making so much progress … that we had started getting beyond tolerance to friendship,” Shaikh said Tuesday. “We have never, ever had anything that even came close to what we had last night.”

Someone planted a device that exploded around 9:30 p.m. behind the mosque on St. Johns Bluff Road. At the time, about 60 people were inside for evening prayers.source


There are no current numbers of how many hate crimes against Muslims for 2010. Of course you can deny that there are ANY, which is what you seem to be doing. The simple fact that the evidence, as pointed out by the Southern Poverty Law Center is that anti-Muslim hate crimes are on an increase.

Of course you can deny the statement by the SPLC, it makes no difference to me.

When the news sources state the FBI is investigating INCIDENTS (plural) as hate crimes, pretty much makes them hate crimes. When a source that I have cited states that a man was attacked for being Muslim makes it a hate crime.

When the graffiti painted on a mosque is anti-Muslim, it is a hate crime.

quote:

Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.



quote:

Sep. 07, 2010
DOJ Investigating At Least 5 Anti-Muslim Acts
Justice Department Investigating At Least 5 Anti-Muslim Acts In 4 States; Holder Meets Clerics

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(AP) WASHINGTON (AP) - The Justice Department is investigating a handful of apparently anti-Muslim incidents in four states, including the stabbing of a Muslim cab driver in New York City.

FBI agents and civil rights division investigators also are looking into vandalism and other incidents at mosques or mosque construction sites in Arlington, Texas; Murfreesboro, Tenn.; Madera, Calif.; and Waterport, N.Y.

The open criminal investigations were confirmed by civil rights division spokeswoman Xochitl (SOH-chee) Hinojosa in response to a query from The Associated Press.

The suspected anti-Muslim incidents, following the uproar over a planned mosque near ground zero in New York and Saturday's planned burning of copies of the Quran at a church in Gainesville, Fla., were the topics of a meeting Tuesday between Attorney General Eric Holder and Muslim and other religious leaders.

Holder called the planned Quran burning, to coincide with the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, "idiotic and dangerous," the religious leaders said following the private meeting.source




SorceressJ -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 7:43:52 PM)

Because I want no part of the sanctimonious mudslinging and bullshit in this and other threads like it, I leave ungentle readers with this link, and I'm outta here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100911/us_time/08599201744700

Stop. The. Hate. Or continue becoming it; you're all doing a fine job, after all. Your choice.




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 8:53:33 PM)

So you quote Media Matters Jilf?!?!?

your bolded quote is from Media Matters. Its political swill.


I strongly disagree with your Anti American assertion that charging = guilt.


so far 4 of the 6 cases you have cited were either BS or exxagerated.

Thats a fact.





Owner59 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 9:06:45 PM)

If facts are independently verified, the source reporting the fact(s) could be any one.


MM doesn`t have a history of making shit up and printing it as fact,like your Bratfart biggovernment asshole or fuxnews does.


Doesn`t show much corrage,running from the facts and hiding.




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 9:20:57 PM)

Sure o59.

media Matters is a valid source......

Not a partisan blog.

And Dogs are peeing in Mosques all over the USA right now. It's a monstrous explosion of cracker hate!!!! Even Harry Reid is part of it!!! Damn Racist neo con!!! Muslims are hiding in thier basements, scafred of certain death if they step outside!!!!

You have to vote Democrat to stop it!!!!

Or the KKK will ride dinsouars in the streets!!!!




Owner59 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 9:33:31 PM)

The measure of credibility is accuracy of facts.

Something you seem unable to achieve.

If Glen Beck says something that true and factual,that doesn`t matter, as long as the facts are verifiable by multiple independent source.

The problem is Beck is a lying fuck and most rightest media is a lie echo chamber.

We dislike rightest media for poisoning the newstream.You guys disike liberal media for exposing it.

Question.

Why don`t you ever argue the merits and facts of an issue?

You spend all your energy avoiding them.





luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 9:45:34 PM)

Yes like the fact that Jilf, following Media Matters and other left wing activist groups lead, is exxagerating the fact and scale of anti Muslim feeling in the USA (which I have pointed often with his own links).

But you want to change the subject to Glen Beck.

Classic Liberal derail move.

lame





Owner59 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 10:02:22 PM)

This folks......is how bush got into office........



Take note.




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/10/2010 10:06:12 PM)

Indeed that a significant chunk of the Democrat base is disconected from reality, and can do nothing but change the subject and blame others had a lot do with getting Bush elected.

It shows that the Democratics are empty.

2 years of Filibuster proof controll, and they still are blaming Republicans. Focusing on "talk Radio"

If this stuff wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.




jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 12:04:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

So you quote Media Matters Jilf?!?!?

your bolded quote is from Media Matters. Its political swill.


I strongly disagree with your Anti American assertion that charging = guilt.


so far 4 of the 6 cases you have cited were either BS or exxagerated.

Thats a fact.





Of course you will not think to check the other links involved at the media matters web site. Of course you will not look at the entire page, check each link they give, that would be too open minded.

Give it up dawg, you are doing nothing more than proving that you are a prejudiced and biased right wing individual. You toe the party line and deny the facts presented. You deny that the people who make a point to watch such statistics have found enough evidence to support the fact that this year anti-Muslim hate crimes seems to have escalated.

I can tell you that there had been a study drop in anti-Muslim hate crimes through 2008, I will even post the graph and source for you to look at.

[image]http://www.hyscience.com/fbi-stats-2004-thru-20081.jpg[/image]

source... right wing source at that

However, that table has one flaw, that being grouping all hate Crimes against Christians in one number.

According to information found here, the FBI breaks anti-religious hate crimes as follows:

quote:

There were 1,606 hate crime offenses motivated by religious bias in 2008. A breakdown of these offenses shows:

* 65.7 percent were anti-Jewish.
* 13.2 percent were anti-other religion.
* 7.7 percent were anti-Islamic.
* 4.7 percent were anti-Catholic.
* 4.2 percent were anti-multiple religions, group.
* 3.7 percent were anti-Protestant.
* 0.9 percent were anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. (Based on Table 1.)




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (9/11/2010 3:21:47 AM)

Yet your table doesn't indicate an large increase in Islamophobic attacks.

The table seems meaningless. Unless you want to prooe that the islamophbia hysteria is nonsense.

Your table confirms exactly what I said all along, and your initial position denied. Claiming Christians didn't suffer attacks.

Somehow you admit that a lot of your facts and premises are flawed, yet it doesn't change your opinion at all.

18 pages into this, you are still pluralising singular events.

And declaring that an invstigation = guilt.

You are hyping this crap for political gain.

And it is disgusting




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