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RE: Training ?????? - 8/30/2010 9:23:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

I would still like specifics on what the difference is between teaching and training. I understand prefering one term over another but when you are going to create a X vs. Y debate, you need to define your terms.

Example: What is the difference between teaching someone to fold a shirt and training them to fold a shirt?

_____________________________


AS,

As I indicated to your good friend and co contibutor, I believe that your not truely interested in contributing to this thread in any meaningful manner but to just entertain yourself and a few buds with your slice and dice comments.

Regardless of what I offered it would be a situation of if I said up your reply would be down.....perhaps it is entertaining to you but for myself it is a waste of time. Thyere have been many fine contributions to this thread by those that understand what it is all about............ for you its word games.

CP


You were the one who made this into a word game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

Training is a part of everyday life. Training on a job, training children, training submissives, ect ect ect.

I view training as teaching. How does he like his bed made? The toilet paper roll hung? His socks folded? His coffee made?

All these, and so much more, are part of a training program.


tazzygirl,

Thanks for your input, bowever I have to say the way you put it might apply to every interpersonal relationship on earth.
I was focusing on the D/s aspect.

CP


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3378018

When i asked for clarification of what YOU meant by the D/s aspect as opposed to a "vanilla" aspect, you began to backstroke right out of the discussion.

Since you were focusing on the D/s aspect, you obviously implied you had some train of thought that was running differently than mine and many others who have posted.

Again, i ask, what D/s aspect where you implying?

And, please, dont try and make it look like AS and i are in a conspiracy against you. Thats weak minded as an argument and does not deflect one bit from your obvious refusal to answer a simple question you, yourself, brought to light.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Training ?????? - 8/31/2010 6:41:16 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The differences in what we want the submissive to be are obvious from the comments. The meaning of training can be debated. It is teaching, helping, physical or just learning each other? Both people in a relationship give ideas, both are examples for each other.

Getting back to the question, my training is putting my own effort forward to be in a caring relationship. As the relationship grows, I want increased BDSM play. I will encourage her to take a harder whipping (that I am careful with) is the simplest way to say it. I’ll also offer my advice in other areas as she will offer her ideas to me. Both should expect their advice to affect the other if the suggestions are sound.

It’s also much more. Her training is me whispering in her ear that she can’t do without me while she stands nude and I run a leather slapper over her breasts. When she nods her head and says she can’t do without me, no matter what, I reward her with a few slaps, bring her into my arms and kiss her deeply. Her training is working.


_____________________________


ExSteel

Thanks for your forthright and informative rely. While I do not particularely agree with your method, if it works then its fine, especially if she is into it.

CP

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Training ?????? - 8/31/2010 7:02:59 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		The op could use a shitload of training. Maybe it's time to contact the folks and see where it all went wrong. Glad you are not on Fet.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Training ?????? - 8/31/2010 7:03:22 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

You're entirely incorrect about me. I have never insulted you, called you names or said that you were wrong or incorrect in your thinking. I have simply asked you, repeatedly, to define your terms and explain what you are disavowing. Something you are perfectly willing to let others do but refuse to do so yourself.

Even if you truly, but falsely, believe that I'm here to cut and dice you, what do you have to hide? If you believe in these things so passionately, why conceal them? Why not share them so that others could read them and simply block me?

< Message edited by AquaticSub


AS,

The above is a fine example of your method of partisipation to read or misread what is presented.

1 I never suggested that you insulted me, or called me names so why put thaty is a post?
2. If the answer to your quest is covered in another's post and I will agree or disagree with it then you have learned what you seek...........what is gained by your further insistance?
3, smiles, you do not possess the ability to slice and dice me...... the reference is to your purchance to slice and dice a comment or words because you do not yet see what you want to see.
4. I hope I have made myselt clear.

CP

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Training ?????? - 8/31/2010 7:04:31 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		You are far too thick to slice and dice. You should be beaten and pummeled.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Training ?????? - 8/31/2010 11:11:50 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

You are far too thick to slice and dice. You should be beaten and pummeled.


yawns and chuckes!

CP

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Training ?????? - 9/1/2010 3:33:11 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

No problem. I'll train you.

a) Find some worthy master
b) obey him

OK, I know that's a bit tongue in cheek.. but really when you get down to it, that's what submission is. It's kind of like checkers. 3 seconds to explain the rules and a life time to master the strategy.

_____________________________

~Jeff


jeff,

well said in a nutshell.

CP

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 12:14:55 PM   
bambihappy


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		That is exciting how i feel, molding myself to the authority and force of the Alpha gives me thrill of my life, i think it is down to the nature of male, we (males) are all slaves.

(in reply to SaharahEve)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 6:27:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		all males are slaves?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to bambihappy)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 6:52:16 PM   
roughleather


Posts: 232
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline 		Training a sub isn't that hard if you've trained animals

A good start is to put your sub through basic dog training - stand, sit, kneel, lie down, roll over, heel, both on verbal command and hand signals. It's a conditioning exercise - it teaches her to obey quickly, without thinking about it. This drives home the meaning of submission.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 6:56:05 PM   
HELPsupport


Posts: 11
Joined: 9/1/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

Training a sub isn't that hard if you've trained animals

A good start is to put your sub through basic dog training - stand, sit, kneel, lie down, roll over, heel, both on verbal command and hand signals. It's a conditioning exercise - it teaches her to obey quickly, without thinking about it. This drives home the meaning of submission.



It's also good to read parenting books: corner time, time out,  1-2-3 magic  Talking on their level, thinking about how it would feel to be them and wording your orders accordingly; schedules, rules, bed times, etc.  It  all helps!  Only, you get to use Dr. Spock's advice, too, without anyone threatening to take what's yours away for spanking it.



(in reply to roughleather)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 9:43:21 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You do know Spock didnt advocate bed times, feeding schedules and the like.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to HELPsupport)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 10:34:23 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		I was.  It ended up being an online only relationship, in the end, but at the time it was online and telephone with the ability to move to real life as the relationship progressed.

Unfortunately though, I did some very shitty things, and got my self released before we ever had the chance to do more than one real life meeting.

He had protocols he expected me to follow, from how I was to present myself verbally on the phone to him every time we spoke, and what I was to do after I presented myself to him.

and he taught or trained if you like,  me how he expected them done.

And when I forgot, he told me again, and reinforced what he was telling me, and then each subsequent conversation after that by not being as lax as he might of been on the issue, had I not forgotten.  He enjoyed my enthusiasm and eagerness to speak to him, and after a while, unless I was in trouble or my good behavior had begun slipping, he let presentation protocols slide.


And when I was forgetting my place and becoming  rude on the telephone, He'd give me a warning, or if it was bad enough, he'd give me the command that meant I was to shut up and stop speaking NOW, and I was expected to follow his expectations of me.


Sometimes if I pissed him off enough, by being rude enough to him, he'd flat out hang up on me. No warning no command that meant shut up now, just a click in my ear.


Now if I ever sought out a dominant again, that I wanted training from, or he was into training and I was willing to accept that, then it'd be similar. I'd be trained and taught to do things the way he liked and expected.


Is it nessesary, yes. I think so.

All though some people prefer to call it learning his or her preferences  of how things are done and adopting them, Which I do anyway, but to me, it's a bit more formal than that.
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Training ??????????

For those that have a fair amount of time in this path we walk..were you ever trained?

For those relatively new folks that "seek" to be trained by their model Dominant...what do you think it means?
For years this term has raised the hackles on my neck whenever it comes up in conversation of in some profile as I grope for a sense of what it is or how it is to be employed.


For some it is meeting tests; for others it is being subjected to being broken and the list goes on. In your view is it necessary?

What say you on the subject?

CP


_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 10:48:09 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		I think that comment is kind of insulting. Not every one has a great memory, or picks things up instantly, and does not need retelling a bit before it's set into their memory good and solid.

I have memory problems, my memory in some area's has never been very good. And maybe it's just cause I was lazy or something, but I frequently forgot stuff, and  I can forget something that happened 4 minutes ago, and need reminded sometimes.

I also rode a short bus for school.

No, I'm not retarded, though  all the other children on the bus were mentally challenged in some ways from full out mental problems /retardation to slight retardation.

For my neighborhood and the school, it was the only school bus that picked up in the neighborhood.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Ruff, ruff -    training is for dogs.    For me, all that is required is a polite request, and it's filed away and remembered.

Of course, i do have a short term memory, and use it. Those that don't may need reiteration in regards to dominants desires.  I guess that could be considered training - but it seems a bit ................ short bus to me.



_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 10:52:13 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		peppermint, that is so true.

Like for instance, I love Daddy calling me a slut and or whore, but say stupid whore, or worthless whore, an I aint having it. I will tell you in no uncertain terms, "stupid" are absolutely no gos, want to be with me don't do it more than once.

quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint
but we can't always help the personal connotaions that certain words seem to have.


_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to peppermint)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 11:06:13 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		And for me, my idea of sharing is something he just happened to or wanted  to say and doesn't expect me to take note of it and remember it lol.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1



I don't know Katy, I don't see it that way. I see it as sharing.


_____________________________

One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 11:13:27 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		  It would be wonderful, and no I am not being sarcastic, for every relationship to end nicely on an amicable note, but that's just not always possible.

Unfortunately a lot of relationships end on a nasty note.

But I think it speaks a whole lot, and in a very good way of someone, if even though things ended nastily, the PERSON themselves is not nasty to the other, or about the breakup afterwards.

Like going around and saying things like " oh they were such a slut and a stupid drama lamma who wouldn't know brains, if brains introduced themselves to her."

Of course  our break up was kind of nasty, and I have hard feelings about my x,  like "he's a momma's boy and a wimp" that I have no problem stating if people ask, so I am not one to talk about taking the high road hehehe.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

  • It'd be a good goal to try to make sure a relationship won't end badly too. This just promotes even more considerate behaviour.




    • _____________________________

    One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

    (in reply to Twoshoes)
    Profile   Post #: 137
    RE: Training ?????? - 9/7/2010 11:38:33 PM   
    Toppingfrmbottom


    Posts: 6528
    Joined: 6/7/2009
    Status: offline     		I'm not so sure I agree.

    When I was brand new, I was not e ven sure what I was, sub, or not, ect ect. And the guy I chose for my very first Dominant, was going to teach me what it meant to be a sub.

    I do believe, that you can taught how to be a sub or a dom, or a switch, and it's not something you simply "are, or are not"

    I also believe, that through enough perhaps  in some cases negative conditioning you can force people to act submissively or passively..

    Ie beat me enough  or provide enough negative reinforcement say for example, when I do not lower my eyes to you when we're talking, I will eventually, if I don't have the back bone to leave you, lower my eyes when you're around.  Now that will of course mean I am not A submissive, but I ACT submissive.

    Well to me anyway.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957


    thought one either is submissive or is not.....you either are or you aren't.



    _____________________________

    One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

    (in reply to sweetsub1957)
    Profile   Post #: 138
    RE: Training ?????? - 9/8/2010 2:46:53 AM   
    CelticPrince


    Posts: 3613
    Joined: 4/15/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    Unfortunately though, I did some very shitty things, and got my self released before we ever had the chance to do more than one real life meeting.


    Topping,

    Sounds like you had a good thing going but oh those short fuses will do it every time.

    CP

    (in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)
    Profile   Post #: 139
    RE: Training ?????? - 9/8/2010 2:50:44 AM   
    Toppingfrmbottom


    Posts: 6528
    Joined: 6/7/2009
    Status: offline     		He was a good thing, and a good man. Yes.



    Ironically it wasn't my short fuse, and I wasn't rude to often, just now and again,  it was something else shitty I did.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: CelticPrince



    Topping,

    Sounds like you had a good thing going but oh those short fuses will do it every time.

    CP


    _____________________________

    One world under lube with vibrators and dildo's for all! quote from the sex toy 101 book

    (in reply to CelticPrince)
    Profile   Post #: 140
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