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Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 7:39:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		This was brought up in another thread and i think it deserves to be discussed.

Sanity made the claim that single payer would cost more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Each time our comrades claim savings but each time the evidence proves that it costs more, and theres no denying that.

Yet here you are once more trying to pull that same familiar wool over everyones eyes...



To which Mnottertail replied...

quote:

single payer costs more? please state your citations for that little bit of asswipe.

between the two of us, you are the one who has dishonestly characterized links, been found 180 degrees incorrect in your statements, and a wide number of people have pointed that out to you. In writing. On these forums.

Theres no wool here, but I see your hands are in the sheepdip.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_3377257/mpage_2/tm.htm

I would also love to see Sanity's... or anyone elses... proof that this system would cost more.

Any takers?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 11:05:47 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		Sanitys responses rarely if ever actually respond to the points made, and he certainly ain't gonna change that policy for as suicidal a debate as this.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 11:09:36 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~grins

I know but i adore putting him on the spot!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 1:02:46 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Canada has single payer system. It costs about 40% less (per person) than health care in the US. Should we  believe the actual evidence or just speculate?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 2:26:47 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Everyone that wants to cling to their "Company" paid plans are a bit scary. Not sure what they think they are getting that is so special.

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 5:52:42 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
All of Canada combined has a smaller population than California alone, and as bureaucracies become larger and larger as they would have to in the United States (as compared to Canada) efficiency would plummet as would quality of care, just as certainly as costs would be much higher here.

Other notorious problems associated with the failed socialist ideology have been covered ad nauseum in other threads so theres really very little reason really for me to have to go there.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Canada has single payer system. It costs about 40% less (per person) than health care in the US. Should we  believe the actual evidence or just speculate?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 6:13:42 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Who can afford thousands of dollars for "quality care" when health insurance companies refuse to pay? First you have to spend your life savings and sell your house if you have one. Then when you run out of money, you die. The "quality care" isn't worth the risk. Also, if Canada offers such poor quality care, why is the life expectency higher for Canadians than for Americans? I plan to move to Canada with Sir when he finishes college. After living there for 3 years, I plan to apply for citizenship. I'm tired of feeling like I'm playing Russian roulette with my life simply because I wasn't born in a country with universal health care.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 8/25/2010 6:24:23 PM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 6:20:17 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Because we have more McDonald's they they do up north.  

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 6:34:59 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		A foreign exchange student in one of my classes a few years ago commented on how few Americans smoke compared to citizens of his country. The life expectency in his country was higher than in the US even with the higher percentage of smokers because they have universal health care. I'm not sure how many McDonalds they have but isn't smoking just as risky as eating at McDonalds?

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to housesub4you)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 7:42:50 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

All of Canada combined has a smaller population than California alone, and as bureaucracies become larger and larger as they would have to in the United States (as compared to Canada) efficiency would plummet as would quality of care, just as certainly as costs would be much higher here.

Other notorious problems associated with the failed socialist ideology have been covered ad nauseum in other threads so theres really very little reason really for me to have to go there.



What you said is not true. You are just making it up. Why? I don't know. Maybe something is wrong with you or maybe you own a lot of stock in corporations and are interested in protecting your profits.

I think you would get along better with other people if you stop lying. There is no relationship to population and efficiency which will cause, which will make single pair more expensive. The examples below provide evidence to support my position. In all cases single-payer is less expensive. Population has nothing to do with it. You provide no evidence whatsoever to back up your invalid claim.



Canada, Australia, and most European countries have single-payer health insurance programs. These programs provide universal health care. The United States has U.S. Medicare but this system is only for senior citizens and some of the disabled.[2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care


The Veterans Administration is a single-payer system and provides excellent quality, said Reinhardt. In a peer-reviewed paper published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, researchers of the RAND Corp. reported that the quality of care received by Veterans Administration patients scored significantly higher overall than did comparable metrics for patients currently using U.S. Medicare.[6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care


Australia's Medicare, Canada's Medicare, the United Kingdom's National Health Service[citation needed], and Taiwan's National Health Insurance are examples of single-payer universal health care systems. Medicare in the United States is an example of a single-payer system for a specified, limited group of persons within a country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 8:48:28 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Every country has problems. The fact is the quality of care is the same and it costs less in Canada compared to the US. Even things you pay out of pocket are less expensive like drugs and dental care. Americans need to see honest analysis where the money actually goes. I am sure it has been done. I have used US care for cash and I have felt being ripped off. It would be interesting to know how the profits are distributed.  

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Single payer costs - 8/25/2010 11:50:22 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		"All of Canada combined has a smaller population than California alone, and as bureaucracies become larger and larger as they would have to in the United States (as compared to Canada) efficiency would plummet as would quality of care, just as certainly as costs would be much higher here."


Oh that's a good argument, "It just would, okay!" is hard to poke holes in.

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 12:42:39 AM   
mstrj69


Posts: 295
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		I am not sure anyone can ever make a fair comparison because to do so, you would have to tak einto account the number of people that pay nothing for healthcare in this country and thus push up the cost to those patients that actually can pay. There is also the differrences in tax systems and the way the people are taxed and who gets what in return.

Most people that I have heard argue for our health system argue about the people from other countries with universal health coming here to get medical care in a timely fashion. Of course most of those people can pay the higher cost. Hospitals here push up cost by always renovating and having the newest equpment possible.

How many people here on social security are making a good living when if the money they were forced to pay into social security could have been invested in whatever they wanted and not loaned to the government and replaced with an IOU? Why aren't retirees in their 70's and 80's getting a minimum of 1500 to 2000 per month, if not more? Why is the minimum still at 600 or less?

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 12:47:35 AM   
mstrj69


Posts: 295
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		I am not trying to change subjects, just show that the U.S. government can not control costs and thus keep health care costs down to where it would be reasonable.

(in reply to mstrj69)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 4:39:53 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Libraries/Committee_Docs/SinglePayer101.sflb.ashx

This may answer your questions.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mstrj69)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 5:06:45 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Some people trust government; some people trust the market (and themselves).

Some people look at Canada and think: Free! FREE!!!! FRREEEEEE!!!!!!!!

Others read about the problems in Canada. I have a daughter who weighed one pound nine ounces at birth. She did beautifully in a West Virginia NICU. West. Virginia. Try that in Canada....

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 5:44:13 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Anyone who looks at canada and thinks free is a dumbass
Anyone who looks at the NHS and thinks free is a dumbass
So you think that the NICUs in canada dont have tiny preemies ??? yes there have been problems but its not going to be the just richest parents who get the only chance at living to be someones princess.



_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 5:50:53 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

So you think that the NICUs in canada dont have tiny preemies


I know that those who can cross the border.
PS- We're not rich. I drive a truck, remember......

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 5:51:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Lucy, dont let him pull your chain. Healthcare isnt perfect anywhere. Look at Duke Medical University. One of the best in this country.



How the mismatch occurred is still unclear. Although Jésica had type O-positive blood, she received type A organs in the Feb. 7 transplant.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/449763

So tell me, truckin. Where was the superior system you keep insisting is here in the US but not in Canada when this girl died?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Single payer costs - 8/26/2010 5:57:51 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Hey Tazzy, oh Im not just sometimes you know it just feels good to reach out and slap the stupid?



_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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