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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 2:36:01 AM   
hertz


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quote:

IMO, one qualification for the terrorist designation is the intentional killing of unarmed civilians.


I agree. But it is important to recognise that the intention cannot be to 'kill 'em all'. If every unarmed civilian gets killed, then you are possibly looking at genocide or some such other evil.

The point about terrorism is that there needs to be people left to feel that terror - the objective is to get the opposition to change its behaviour. Terrorism is what is turned to when it isn't possible to kill 'em all, or when there is some advantage in not killing 'em all. This is why I would characterise IDF military actions as terrorism. The objective is to stop the Palestinians from complaining about their land being stolen. Genocide would do that, but there would be some serious consequences for Israel, so a policy of state terrorism is employed instead - a bit of ethnic cleansing here, some Apartheid there, a few killings somewhere else, a bit of random assassination and harassment, a few nasty injuries - it all counts. Killing the opposition is definitely part of the story, but it is possible to do terrorism without anyone getting killed. I think.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 2:49:58 AM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		Not sure that I can agree with the last statement, but you make good points about using different types of death and destruction. Chaos and unpredictability of violence are excellent ways to destabilize the opposition. Bombings in public places are a good example of that.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 7:47:10 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

The objective is to stop the Palestinians from complaining about their land being stolen.


Well, sure, if by complaining you mean killing women and children, and if by stolen you mean land awarded 65 years ago as a byproduct of WWII. Their objective, actually, is simply to stay alive, and they don't use anything remotely similar to terror tactics to do it.

Which most closely is a terror tactic:
1. Stopping- not attacking, with bombers and such, stopping- a flotilla on the high seas to keep it from breaking a naval blockade in place to stop people from smuggling rockets
2. Firing rockets blindly into cities.

If the middle east disarmed to the level of sticks the Israelis would leave them in peace.
If Israel disarmed they would be slaughtered to the last man (literally).



_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 8:04:51 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		If they were all disarmed to the level of sticks, they would beat each other to death with sticks.  They have been fighting each other for probably near 4000 years.  I dont see them stopping just because someone says "Now y'all make up and play nice.  You're all sons of Abraham"  Even the Shiia and Sunni happily slaughter each other if noone else is handy.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 9:18:11 AM   
hertz


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quote:

...if by stolen you mean land awarded 65 years ago as a byproduct of WWII.


There's the problem right there. Land 'awarded' by the UN without reference to the people already living there, people who were driven from their homes and villages and massacred in huge numbers by European Jews who felt they had the right to do that because the land had been 'awarded' to them as a sort of special prize for surviving the Holocaust, apparently.

I wonder how you'd feel if I decided to 'award' your home to some poor homeless Muslims without bothering to ask you? I bet you'd be delighted. You'd whinge and whine about it to the end of time, I bet....

Which, most closely, is a terror tactic?

1. Launching White Phosphorus munitions into a school?
2. Hiding under a table?


< Message edited by hertz -- 8/28/2010 9:20:26 AM >

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 10:48:48 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
I wonder how you'd feel if I decided to 'award' your home to some poor homeless Muslims without bothering to ask you? I bet you'd be delighted. You'd whinge and whine about it to the end of time, I bet....


I wouldn't have to worry about it: violation of the 3rd Amendment.

"No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

Since the soldier, is part of a militia or general army, and paid for by the goverment; any other person, paid by the goverment, would likewise be consider a 'soldier' for purposes of determining whether the goverment could force a common citizen to 'quarter' that person....even a muslim. But if the goverment is willing to pay, twice the rent, for one person.....who am I to say 'no' to? Most Muslims I've known are pretty peaceful people; one even is a gamer!

But, it all comes down to what the Supreme Court rules. Seeing as its full of 'conservative' activists judges, I'm sure having to house a Muslim will not be a problem or issue.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 11:04:45 AM   
hertz


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Status: offline 		It's a shame the 3rd Amendment doesn't apply in the West Bank or in East Jerusalem...

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 11:44:39 AM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		If the Muslim nations of the middle east disarmed to the level of sticks the Israelis would leave them in peace.
If Israel disarmed they would be slaughtered to the last man (literally).

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 11:49:32 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

...if by stolen you mean land awarded 65 years ago as a byproduct of WWII.


There's the problem right there. Land 'awarded' by the UN without reference to the people already living there, people who were driven from their homes and villages and massacred in huge numbers by European Jews who felt they had the right to do that because the land had been 'awarded' to them as a sort of special prize for surviving the Holocaust, apparently.

I wonder how you'd feel if I decided to 'award' your home to some poor homeless Muslims without bothering to ask you? I bet you'd be delighted. You'd whinge and whine about it to the end of time, I bet....

Which, most closely, is a terror tactic?

1. Launching White Phosphorus munitions into a school?
2. Hiding under a table?


Oh, I dunno, Hertz. Take my home(land), maybe I'd fight and die. Maybe I'd leave, check out Canada or Australia. If I was younger, Hong Kong.
But if my great grand children are still fighting 65 years later they're ust a bunch of hate-filled fools.

My terror questions had, I thought, clear real-world referremts. I suppose that's why you didn't answer them.

Yours don't; but give me #1 for $200.00 anyway.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 11:55:57 AM   
Real0ne


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the funny thing about terrorism is that when you ask people what specific crime is attached to the word terrorism most cannot answer because its one of those words like the word God.

When you use the word God, everyone envisions their own God if no other reference is made.

When you use the word terrorism everyone conjures up something horrible that they "think" applies regardless of whether what they conjured up is a real crime or not..

This takes people into the land of fictionville where instead of a "specific" crime being stated its left to your imagination to create the crime for your own minds sake.

I have a term for that, it is called "syntax" terrorism perpetrated against the people at large by the PTB complements of the BAR.




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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 1:53:01 PM   
hertz


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quote:

My terror questions had, I thought, clear real-world referremts. I suppose that's why you didn't answer them


I didn't answer your question directly because I thought it was biased and a bit dumb. So I created an equally biased and ridiculous question (with real-world reference) for you, hoping that you might see why I felt your question might not deserve a reply.

I failed.

quote:

But if my great grand children are still fighting 65 years later they're ust a bunch of hate-filled fools.


It takes at least two to make a fight lasting 65 years. There are fools on both sides.



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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 1:59:39 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

It takes at least two to make a fight lasting 65 years


Yup. In this case, one on offense, one on defense.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 2:44:28 PM   
hertz


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quote:

Yup. In this case, one on offense, one on defense.


At last. Agreement. We can argue about who is who if you like...

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 2:59:25 PM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

...if by stolen you mean land awarded 65 years ago as a byproduct of WWII.


There's the problem right there. Land 'awarded' by the UN without reference to the people already living there, people who were driven from their homes and villages and massacred in huge numbers by European Jews who felt they had the right to do that because the land had been 'awarded' to them as a sort of special prize for surviving the Holocaust, apparently.

I wonder how you'd feel if I decided to 'award' your home to some poor homeless Muslims without bothering to ask you? I bet you'd be delighted. You'd whinge and whine about it to the end of time, I bet....

Which, most closely, is a terror tactic?

1. Launching White Phosphorus munitions into a school?
2. Hiding under a table?




Depends where the Table is located. Using a table in a school (or Hospital) to hide under as you attack, is certainly a war crime, could be considered terrorism. It also depends what the School is being used for, if it is being used as a command structure for combatants or a fire base, it becomes a valid target.


But why do you think Isrealis hiding under the table from the daily rocket attacks is terrorism?


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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 3:39:02 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Oh please, you don't have to be an anti-Semite to believe there's something wrong with running over that unarmed kneeling protester in the way of the Palestinian houses you're trying to demolish.



quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

And I can tell who is an anti-semite the same way.



that isnt the portion of your post I was addressing and you know it.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 3:53:54 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

If the Muslim nations of the middle east disarmed to the level of sticks the Israelis would leave them in peace.
If Israel disarmed they would be slaughtered to the last man (literally).


How many times are you going to repeat those two sentences in one thread?

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 3:55:42 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

If the Muslim nations of the middle east disarmed to the level of sticks the Israelis would leave them in peace.
If Israel disarmed they would be slaughtered to the last man (literally).


How many times are you going to repeat those two sentences in one thread?



I hope he does every time its an appropriate response, because there is no credible challenge to those statements, but eventually some moron is going to try to (and I can venture a pretty solid guess who will be the first to try.)

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/28/2010 3:56:29 PM >

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 4:00:53 PM   
StrangerThan


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Status: offline 		lol

Sorry, I couldn't resist. That part about it lacking credible challenge just so... annihilates the debate. But that isn't what made me about spew iced tea on my keyboard. It was the part about solid guesses.


< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 8/28/2010 4:03:00 PM >

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 4:03:34 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
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Status: offline 		Poverty, religion and/or racism.
Wow, that was easy.

You never see a rich atheist humanist making a nailbomb.

The tough part is unmaking them.

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 8/28/2010 4:09:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

lol

Sorry, I couldn't resist. That part about it lacking credible challenge just so... annihilates the debate. But that isn't what made me about spew iced tea on my keyboard. It was the part about solid guesses.



Im not sure we are on the same wavelength on this one, because it wasnt meant to be funny, but to be clear I was not referring to RML.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/28/2010 4:10:20 PM >

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