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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 9/1/2010 1:16:41 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Slamming a few airliners into buildings and killing thousands of people will do it for me!


What about attacking and destroying a country that had nothing to do with it, because GWB couldn't find the real terrorists? Does that count?

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 9/1/2010 3:33:19 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain



Why do so many terrorists have engineering degrees? - By Benjamin Popper - Slate Magazine

A paper (PDF) released this summer by two sociologists, Diego Gambetta and Steffen Hertog, adds empirical evidence to this observation. The pair looked at more than 400 radical Islamic terrorists from more than 30 nations in the Middle East and Africa born mostly between the 1950s and 1970s. Earlier studies had shown that terrorists tend to be wealthier and better-educated than their countrymen, but Gambetta and Hertog found that engineers, in particular, were three to four times more likely to become violent terrorists than their peers in finance, medicine or the sciences. The next most radicalizing graduate degree, in a distant second, was Islamic Studies.


What else might account for the radical, violent politics of so many former engineering students? Is there some set of traits that makes engineers more likely to participate in acts of terrorism? To answer this question, Gambetta and Hertog updated a study that was first published in 1972, when a pair of researchers named Seymour Lipset and Carl Ladd surveyed the ideological bent of their fellow American academics. According to the original paper, engineers described themselves as "strongly conservative" and "deeply religious" more often than professors in any other field. Gambetta and Hertog repeated this analysis for data gathered in 1984, so it might better match up with their terrorist sample. They found similar results, with 46 percent of the (male American) engineers describing themselves as both conservative and religious, compared with 22 percent of scientists.

Gambetta and Hertog write about a particular mind-set among engineers that disdains ambiguity and compromise. They might be more passionate about bringing order to their society and see the rigid, religious law put forward in radical Islam as the best way of achieving those goals. In online postings, Abdulmutallab expressed concern over the conflict between his secular lifestyle and more extreme religious views. "How should one put the balance right?" he wrote.

Terrorist organizations seem to have recognized this proclivity—in Abdulmutallab, obviously, but also among engineers in general. A 2005 report from British intelligence noted that Islamic extremists were frequenting college campuses, looking for "inquisitive" students who might be susceptible to their message. In particular, the report noted, they targeted engineers.


http://www.slate.com/id/2240157



and what court made that decision?

the court of misinformed MSM popular "opinion"?

Nice Jawjack material but thats as far as it goes IMO.

People quoting news articles and the opines therein as remotely bon-a-fide may as well get a job with alex jones and join him making a living at it.


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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 9/1/2010 5:56:56 PM   
Aneirin


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I know engineers have a mind set that when they are committed they go for it and over come any problem that stands between them and their goal

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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 9/2/2010 1:41:00 AM   
Real0ne


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sort of an easy thing to gauge though.  Just need to look at the source.  If its politics or news and their lips are moving its a lie.

It was not to long ago I watched the news demolish the reputation of a family and it made national.  It was all bullshit.  All trumped up shit to "make" news.   Even I was shocked at the lengths they went to just to put up a story and it takes a lot to surprise much less shock me.  We spent about 2 weeks on and off going over a list of 40+ causes in tort.  The whole neighborhood was shocked. (at the MSM not them)


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: What makes a Terrorist ? - 9/2/2010 7:00:09 AM   
samboct


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To the OP

I think Lenin said it best. "The purpose of terrorism is to terrorize."

In terms of the Princeton article- well, clearly I'm not an economist and in this case, the cobbler should stick to his last. Looking for economic motivations in terrorism is silly- it's a lousy framework.

There are a couple of conflated questions going on here-

1) How is a terrorist made?

2) What are the uses of terrorism?

Let's look at how terrorist are made:

First and foremost- a terrorist- i.e. someone who is willing to blow stuff up or kill to accomplish a goal has two main drivers: one, honor, and two, takes joy in destruction. Whether it's Timothy McVeigh, angered by the FBI's attack on Koresh's compound in Waco, to the Japanese samurai assassinating Prime Minister after Prime Minister in Japan in the 1920s (I doubt if any political figure in Japan could get life insurance at that time.) to the minions of Osama Bin Towel (I will not dignify that individual by using his name....), the motivations of these people are all pretty similar in terms of framework- the specifics do differ. All of these people were driven by honor- the Japanese have just codified it the most clearly with the code of Bushido. The rest are just not as well trained or educated in the art of terrorism. For terrorism to flourish, there has to be injustice, and a personal exposure to it. So poverty- especially poverty where there are examples of great wealth, is a great garden for terrorists.

Humans are driven by fairness- if everybody is living in a mudhole, then you don't worry about it. But when a few people have houses on stilts, and you see that some people are living in a mudhole with feces around, while others live in clean air- this inequity generates anger in a lot of people. Anybody who's walked down the streets of a city and come face to face with a homeless person may have felt this. I certainly do- why should he be homeless and not me? Those who blame the homeless person for his straits probably also don't get terrorism.

The inequity that is pointed out can be either nationalistically based or religiously based. I don't think it matters. Humans like to generalize, so we tar the religion or the nationality with the same broad brush. Those guys come from the same country as those nuts who killed themselves and the prime minister- or they have the same religion as the guys on the airplane that flew it into the towers. It's similar behavior on the part of the terrorists and the terrorized.

In terms of joy of destruction...well, that's pretty common. When I was a kid, I watched a buddy of mine fly a glider he just built. It landed on a basketball court, and one of the kids playing basketball deliberately dribbled a ball onto it- destroying it. My buddy went and beat the kid up for a few dollars so he could get another kit. I watched the kids playing basketball take the carcass of the airplane and stuff it into a basket. Humans take joy in destroying another humans possessions. The greater the effort in construction, the greater the joy in destruction. It's a common human trait, and this joy is something that I'll lay long odds drives most terrorists deep down. So to make a terrorist you need two things- honor- a desire to write a perceived wrong, and a joy of destruction.

Not surprisingly then, terrorists have to be educated people. Indigent individuals are far more focused on their own survival, honor goes out the window when you're scavenging from a garbage can. But terrorists have to see something that angers them- and that injustice is generally linked to poverty.

I think that's how terrorists are made. How terrorists are used is a different question, but it clearly has a lot to do with achieving political goals. If you can't convince people that you're correct by rational discussion, then terrorism becomes a viable option. There are two ways that rational discussion fails- either the other side holds all the cards and won't listen to you (Menachim Begin was certainly called a terrorist by the British), or your goal is antithetical to the multitude, so you have to cause them to fear you. (Lenin.)


Sam

(in reply to Real0ne)
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