RE: Monogamy Agonistes (Full Version)

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Elisabella -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:52:27 PM)

-FR-

Does this site keep gender/orientation stats?

I'm actually curious now about the number of dominant women vs dominant men. A statement like "I find very few women truly satisfied by dominating men" does seem to be exaggerated (though 'few' isn't exactly quantifiable) but I think there are probably more dom males on this site who get satisfaction just from dominating (no tribute or anything) than domme females, especially taking "tribute dommes" out of the picture.




masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:53:24 PM)

I am realizing how much women generally would rather be lied to. Rather fascinating. I am not saying every man cheats (indeed, since it is not concealed, I never have), but lets assume most of you smart ladies have or will submit to a man who might have some sex appeal to women, maybe. I imagine in this world where the sexes interact much more than on earlier times, opportunities will arise. Few men are saints. Just a fact.



Elisabella -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:53:38 PM)

quote:

A read of My profile should have also informed you that I happen to have a male in My collar.  Someone that, even though he's a four time war vet, you claim society has no respect for him.


To be fair, society really doesn't have much respect for women who wear collars either.



masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:55:23 PM)

elisabella,

It is of course a generalization, and I am aware there are exceptions, but what you say about the numbers is probably correct especially after eliminating the corrupting influence of payment for kink - in which as I said the payer is ultimately in charge.



Elisabella -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:56:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg

elisabella,

It is of course a generalization, and I am aware there are exceptions, but what you say about the numbers is probably correct especially after eliminating the corrupting influence of payment for kink - in which as I said the payer is ultimately in charge.


l2capitalize plx



masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:57:06 PM)

society more understands the female submissive role.



WyldHrt -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:57:15 PM)

quote:

Every day and every way I am glad I do not identify as a slave, if in being a slave it means my happiness is soley defined by another.  I acually have needs.  The OP however, is stating sub/slaves should be ok with poly if they want the whole package.  His package better be damn fine for someone who has needs to consider his poly choice acceptable.  Based on the presentation, I doubt it.

Nicely said, Missokyst, I agree.
OP, wake up and smell the coffee. Just because someone (note the lack of gender there) identifies as submissive, that certainly does not mean that they are claiming to be, or have any desire to be, a no limits slave. You are making a huge (and incorrect) assumption, and getting your ass kicked for it.
quote:

and when she can accept that it is normal for any man, let alone an owner of women, to seek numerous pleasures and conquests

Again with the assumptions. Has it ever occurred to you that a man might not want more than one partner? I have 2 close friends, who many here are familiar with, that are in a Master/slave TPE relationship. It truly would not bother her if he were to sleep with another or take another as a slave, although that might not be her preference. That said, it is his preference, even though I'm sure he would have no trouble at all finding another partner should he want one. Years into their relationship, he simply has no desire to sexually partner anyone but his slave. Believe it or not, some dominant men do prefer monogamy.
quote:

Moreover, a woman understanding her place and properly trained will not suffer the heartbreak extremely common to women who limited their owner and discovered that his honor was lacking (indeed, has anything caused women more emotional pain than this unnatural expectation?)

If his honor is lacking, then it is lacking whether a female slave agrees to poly or not, isn't it? [8|] Honor is not limited to one specific circumstance in my book.
As for 'unnatural expectation', I already covered that but would like to add that expecting someone to be up front from the get go is not unreasonable. If a 'dom' fails to do so, see my above comments on lack of honor.
quote:

A single man of forty on this site may well be one or more of the following, live with his mother, be unemployed, have an action figure collection, speak Klingon, read comic books or be overwhelmingly unappealing physically (of course, there are exceptions).
That is just insulting to many men in my age group. I have to wonder what you think of women that are single at a similar age? It seems that you are trying to make couples, such as you and your slave, seem more appealing than a single Dom seeking a partner. Epic fail on that.
quote:

My general view of this lifestyle has always been because of the extreme vulnerability slaves are always apt to find themselves in, the quality of the owner is paramount and the conventionality of the situation secondary if not tertiary.

Of course it is. You are seeking a unicorn, and think that being condescending is a good way to make you look more appealing.
quote:

Often divorced men will have less negatives at least in traditional dating, but in the lifestyle there is the concern that they have had a woman they could not train and that may sometimes speak to their skills as a Master.
Nice attempt at trashing the competition.
quote:

I have met some very nice woman among an amazing amount of frauds on this site, but have also been told by those seeking total slavery and submission that they do not do ‘poly’ or want monogamy.

In a world where labels are simply guidelines, and everyone defines the specifics for themselves, this should not really be a surprise. Hit the 'incompatible' button and move on.
quote:

They only dilute the pool of potential owners to exclude the most desirable and talented

Yet another assumption, the the most desirable and talented owners must want poly.
quote:

I hope these words help woman, even if just a bit, that the quality of the owner is determined by his honestly and his dominance not his conventionality.

Woman no helped by pontificating post. Fail.
(sorry all, I just could not resist playing grammar nazi after the 'intelligence' claimed on his profile)




jujubeeMB -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:58:12 PM)

Man, I hate that I have to go to bed and miss this - I'm sure when I get back it'll be 16 pages long. In any case, OP: the thing is, you're just wrong. A lot of people (both men and women) are monogamous, and we should stick with those who agree with us on the issue. You are clearly into having sex with whoever you want whenever you want, so you should look for women who are into that. I personally am monogamous, and therefore stick to Doms who insist on monogamy. For some, the dynamic is much, much stronger if there are no other partners, and you insisting that that isn't the case is just silly.

What do you think is really going to happen in this thread? That we're going to drop our monogamous partners and go "you know what? My psychological and emotional needs aren't important to me anymore, because a stranger on the internet told me that I'm going about it wrong"? You're insulting, closed-minded and self-righteous in your approach, and no one is going to hear a word you say.



poise -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:58:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg
Even in the vanilla world women dating men of a certain age often point out that many, ok I get it not all, of them have reached the certain age single for the reason not solely of bad luck.


Perhaps these single over 40 men that you seem to speak so poorly of are single because they werent monogamous.
just saying..........[8|]



WyldHrt -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:59:12 PM)

quote:

In My opinion as a poly person, there are absolutely folks out there who are not wired for poly.  From My personal observation, I happen to think that more people are wired for monogamy.  It's just the way I see it.

This doesn't make one group right or wrong.  It means that individuals (hopefully) know how they are wired and what works for them.  There are even fewer folks who are willing to be added to an existing couple.  That's just the way it is and I don't blame anyone for it.  Personally, I'd rather have folks tell Me that poly won't work for them than those who aren't cut out for it make the attempt with a disastrous result.

As to the rest of your post, it bordered on insulting.  I would encourage you to remember that as you are preaching about the place of a man and a woman in this lifestyle, that not everyone fits into your beliefs.  Dominant is not a term of male gender

Have I told you lately that I love you?? [:)]



subspacepilot2 -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 7:59:41 PM)

quote:

Where as a man who is honest and upfront about requiring the true submission of his slaves, will most likely be much more honest in general. Moreover, a woman understanding her place and properly trained will not suffer the heartbreak extremely common to women who limited their owner and discovered that his honor was lacking (indeed, has anything caused women more emotional pain than this unnatural expectation?)ORIGINAL: masterpdg 


Over the decades I have seen, time and again this point of view.  "I am master, I do what I want, therefore there never can be any lack of honor."  Most often I have seen this turn into "of course I can have another slave, you will be sisters."  The end result  with only one exception that I can recall is the extreme pain that occurs when slave number one gets totally dumped..

D/s is a dance.  When one partner doesn't lead but rather drags the other around at whim, in time quality is lost. 



Elisabella -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:00:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg

society more understands the female submissive role.


Society sees a woman identifying as a slave and helping her "master" cheat on his wife as a deluded pathetic slut.

Just sayin, you might not want to build your point off of social approval.



masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:06:15 PM)

Wyld --

First of all some examples of men do not want other women are wonderful, but they do not disprove the general trend anymore than a short man disproves that men a generally taller than women.
I do not think most unattached women over 30 are 'losers' for lack of a better word. In fact just the opposite. Most are highly educated and interesting, and therefore they intimate the masses of men who are unconfident and justly so. I think on average single women in their late 30s or 40s are generally far superior to their male counterparts.
I know a lot of people are very big on the semantic distinction between sub and slave; I am less so. Submitting means placing yourself under someone and isn't a radically different concept. Conditions limit the eroticism of the concept.



sexyred1 -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:08:16 PM)

Oh my god...I just got home from seeing an amazingly deep indie film with intelligent people all around me and what do I stumble into? Another frustrated married dude who is bummed out that no one wants what he wants. Waaaaa.

Not only did I read the entire thread, but I also read the OP's profile.

So let me get this straight:

-you are married
-your wife is a slave
-you want to cheat
-you think women who have not met the ONE have not done so because they mistakenly believe in monogamy
-you think all Doms and men for that matter are not monogamous by nature
-you have called fairly everyone on the site frauds
-your profile states everyone is a "poseur"
-you have insulted Dominant women and submissive men
-you seem to think you have something special to offer the women of the world
-you think everyone is poly

Have I missed anything? I was laughing at the various bullshit generalizations abounding. I am also laughing that the OP is from NYC; where beautiful, strong, intelligent, women are on every corner. And some of those women are, gasp...submissives who have a brain, desires of their own and who get to DEFINE THEIR OWN RULES FOR SUBMISSION. Understand?

I know you called yourself intelligent on your profile, but to make such generalizations is not intelligent; it is small minded and delusional and obviously said out of frustration that none of the aforementioned women are remotely interested in submission with the OP's type of dominance.

The funniest thing you said was that it is not a D/s dynamic at all if the submissive doesn't support non-monogamy.

I will say however, that the thread is highly entertaining.



masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:09:04 PM)

Elisabella --

Please understand I could not care less what society thinks regarding this. I only say that because submissive men are held in low esteem, many people may be affected by that judgment including dominant women.



BonesFromAsh -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:11:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg

Elisabella --

Please understand I could not care less what society thinks regarding this. I only say that because submissive men are held in low esteem, many people may be affected by that judgment including dominant women.


Add this...the bolded portion... to the list of statements I'm waiting to read your basis for.



LadyPact -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:11:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt
Have I told you lately that I love you?? [:)]


Never so recent that I get tired of hearing it.

Love you and miss you.



poise -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:12:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
The funniest thing you said was that it is not a D/s dynamic at all if the submissive doesn't support non-monogamy.
I will say however, that the thread is highly entertaining.


[image]http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv215/ice_0/smilie_essen_199.gif[/image]
I brought extra....help yourself



xXsoumisXx -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:13:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Oh please. That is just retarded.
Just because you want a polyamorous relationship doesn't mean everyone does.
And it certainly doesn't make you a better person.


Exactly. Poly is not better, or more enlightened, or anything else.
it is just another choice.



masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/28/2010 8:13:49 PM)

sexyred -

that was silly mischaracterization that was beneath you.

I do not cheat. Cheating involved lying and sneaking around. I think women may have not met the ONE for all sorts of reasons. The vast majority are frauds; Im sure you've picked that up.

I do not think everyone is poly (although it is certainly an older and longer historical norm), only that most men like numerous women (it is amazing this is controversial).

RULES FOR SUBMISSION - that is exactly the kind of thing that undermines what is beautiful about this life.



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