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RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/29/2010 9:34:26 PM   
cloudboy


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Salon had an article about how Ingrid Bellemare passed away.

I'm still wondering how this guy who posted here is making out.

Assuming Ingrid was true to her words, I can only wonder how her slave is making out in her absence.
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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/30/2010 8:43:57 PM   
numuncular


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Salon had an article about how Ingrid Bellemare passed away.

I'm still wondering how this guy who posted here is making out.

Assuming Ingrid was true to her words, I can only wonder how her slave is making out in her absence.


actually, you can see from the profile on slaveregister that she updated a few months before she passed away that her slave which I assume is the one mentioned in the book had become ill, and she was searching for a new one.

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 10:19:57 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		That's a very interesting article in Salon.

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 10:50:45 AM   
Twoshoes


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Status: offline 		(I know I'm in the wrong forum, the wrong gender and orientation and everything else.)

I know the author, at the end, distances herself from the viewpoints she paraphrased from Ingrid, but what about those original viewpoints?

quote:


I married the con man and then divorced him, but first I beat him nearly to death. In his weakened state I tortured him and it was not consensual and he was frightened and knowing he was frightened I liked it more. I was beating my father, my ex husband, and my uncles and the anger came like a volcano that I couldn’t control.


Um... ok, then. Hates men - check.

quote:


In The Owning and Training of a Male Slave Ingrid writes about the training techniques and rituals which she was very disciplined about following. These included hyper-criticism of behavior, excessive punishment, and gagging (“so your slave learns not to talk back”). Branding was redone every year on the slave’s anniversary.


Seems to me like "emotional abuse" with no seeming care for the emotional well-being of her slave. Which was recently covered in this thread .

If I wrote that this was a viable way to treat female slaves (including punishing them due to a general hatred of women), I'd get crucified.

~Twoshoes

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/31/2010 11:07:00 AM >

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 11:08:10 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Well FIRST Twoshoes, you are not the wrong anything to have an opinion here.

I think that gender superiority is utter claptrap. That whole "men are inferior and deserve to be trodden down" like OWK espouses... well, that is ABUSE, in my book. I really do not see how anyone can serve effectively if they live in high level fear. The damage that all that adrenaline does to their systems must be hideous.

The lady who wrote that essay does not "hate men". She hates the things that the MEN IN HER LIFE have done to her, and how powerless she felt at the time. Please do not try to foster stereotypes when all she was doing was explaining her personal experience.



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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 11:30:36 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
If I wrote that this was a viable way to treat female slaves (including punishing them due to a general hatred of women), I'd get crucified.
Yup. I've noted the same gender bias myself. Let's face it, in our society, men are pigs.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 11:36:18 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Well FIRST Twoshoes, you are not the wrong anything to have an opinion here.

I think that gender superiority is utter claptrap. That whole "men are inferior and deserve to be trodden down" like OWK espouses... well, that is ABUSE, in my book. I really do not see how anyone can serve effectively if they live in high level fear. The damage that all that adrenaline does to their systems must be hideous.

The lady who wrote that essay does not "hate men". She hates the things that the MEN IN HER LIFE have done to her, and how powerless she felt at the time. Please do not try to foster stereotypes when all she was doing was explaining her personal experience.



At the same time, I can't say that I agree with her motivations.  Nor can I say that I have the same philosophies as Ingrid seemed to portray.  I certainly wish her peace in death, but I think I prefer My own methods.


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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 11:43:41 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
If I wrote that this was a viable way to treat female slaves (including punishing them due to a general hatred of women), I'd get crucified.
Yup. I've noted the same gender bias myself. Let's face it, in our society, men are pigs.



Well, Jeff, you ARE pigs. And not just in Western society. Burkas are there to PROTECT the wimmens, remember? (srsly.)

There is no way that I could treat another human being the way that Ingrid did. The FACT remains that I get requests like that far too often. It's not like there isn't an audience for that kind of thing, appalling as it is.

I prefer to have servants who WANT to serve me, and are happy about it. I want them to have minds and opinions, and orgasms, too! It's just better that way, in the little bubble that is my world.
~~

I am a deeply aggressive person. I am capable of really really ugly things. I do not DO those things, and I can't condone others doing them either. I was never abused, raped, or put in the position that many women have been, either. Who's to say what I MIGHT have done?

I know that when H left me, I actually took a year OFF from playing because I felt that the risk of some poor guy tripping my trigger was too great. I couldn't take the chance, though I KNOW that my self control is good.

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 11:47:18 AM   
OttersSwim


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Status: offline 		I prefer to be exultant in my defeat.   No one is served by my being ground into the dirt for better footing...

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 12:09:21 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Well, Jeff, you ARE pigs.

Well ok then... but there's no need to just go trumpeting that about *laughs*

As to the rest of your post, I'm pretty acutely aware that those sentiments are not commonly held in the female dominant community. For the most part, when I read posts over here (at least posts written by women), there tends to be a fairly strong emphasis on connection, relationship, love, and all those other wholesome things :)

My comment was only that I agreed with Twoshoes. If I wrote something like what that female dom wrote, I would be flayed alive... possibly in person as the angry mobs beat a path to my RL door. I've seen plenty of similar discrepancies on CM with things I actually have written. Note, I'm not mystified by why that is nor am I whining about it since it doesn't really effect me.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 12:15:09 PM   
Twoshoes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Well FIRST Twoshoes, you are not the wrong anything to have an opinion here.


Thank you, LH, but I figure it is always polite to ask for an invitation first. (Especially, when I am looking to write down my judgments regarding a female supremacy case.)

quote:


The lady who wrote that essay does not "hate men". She hates the things that the MEN IN HER LIFE have done to her, and how powerless she felt at the time. Please do not try to foster stereotypes when all she was doing was explaining her personal experience.

I admit to embellishing my example to include all men for dramatic impact. There is no sure way of knowing who she'd be projecting her "powerless"-ness onto.

I'll still offer my reaction to this: I am thoroughly creeped out at the thought that anyone would be thinking of their mother or father while beatings are occuring.

I was translating everything I read into a male-dominant scenario in my mind and this was the result:

"Looking for a "no-limits" female slave who I can completely rob of anything feminine, chastise her and then proceed to give as much negative feedback as possible in order to break her down psychologically. Also, might be thinking of my mother or aunt at the time..."

(The no-limits part refers to the repetitive mention of non-consentual punishments).

Just... no. I'd need to provide a truck's worth of pitchforks, rotten eggs and slingshots, before I could say anything like that.


quote:


quote:


Yup. I've noted the same gender bias myself. Let's face it, in our society, men are pigs.

Well, Jeff, you ARE pigs.

(On a slightly more entertaining note:)
As long as the reference is about the "non-threatening" kind of male pig, I don't even try to deny it!

I always answer the question "Are you trying to get in my pants?" in the affirmative, regardless of who asks.

And when I'm asked: "What are you thinking about?",
my answer usually is: "I'm trying to figure out how viable it is to fill an entire swimming pool with beer; I'm abit worried that might end up being a huge waste after a few hours in the sun."

Edit: Yes, Jeff, it doesn't affect me either, but I wonder what the reason for the discrepancy is.

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/31/2010 12:21:19 PM >

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 12:31:48 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
Edit: Yes, Jeff, it doesn't affect me either, but I wonder what the reason for the discrepancy is.
The reason? Isn't that obvious? In our society (well, the US at least, I can't speak for Canada), it is generally assumed that women are good and men are bad. The things that women crave are considered lofty. The things men crave are considered base. It's really a pretty comprehensive bias and it goes to the very heart of the male gender. All that is happening here is that the BDSM community has not re-evaluated those biases.

What I personally find a ton more fun to look at is the biases against dominance and submission. I find it hilarious that in a community where those themes are featured so prominently, there is a huge bias against them.

ETA: Oh, and I am just plain stealing that "What are you thinking?" answer.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/31/2010 12:33:27 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 1:31:29 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Interesting viewpoint, Jeff. Perhaps (and this is just me spinning here, not my opinion) because men are PRESENTED as being utterly sexually driven? And that sex stuff is all bad, right? Whereas we wimmens are all pure and virginal.

Honestly, (and this is me, now) I don't see that men are portrayed as the spirits of evil, while women are all great and wonderful. I see the patriarchy as being alive and well.

In my years here, I recally less than half a dozen women who posted regularly who identified as female supremacists. Even they did not espouse the Ingrid style. Where ARE these women? I see their profiles, heaven knows I have to beat off the wankers who buy into that fantasy with a newspaper. Are they actual women LIVING that life. or just players having bits of fantasy? When Cloudboy posted, I was thinking "Ingrid Bellemare? Who is that?" It's just not the world that ANYONE I know lives in, and I have met a lot of folks!!



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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 1:49:31 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		I read the article, She sounded like a cunt.



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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 1:56:30 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Interesting viewpoint, Jeff. Perhaps (and this is just me spinning here, not my opinion) because men are PRESENTED as being utterly sexually driven? And that sex stuff is all bad, right? Whereas we wimmens are all pure and virginal.

Honestly, (and this is me, now) I don't see that men are portrayed as the spirits of evil, while women are all great and wonderful. I see the patriarchy as being alive and well.


I do believe that there is an underlying thread that runs through life about "men and women".  It is almost always in the background of our conversations, our media, or collective thought processes in life, politics, entertainment, etc.   The thread is rampant with concepts of who is more violent, or nurturing, who communicates more and better, who invests in relationships more, who is more handy with tools and changing tires, who drives better, who is allowed to embrace style and who is not, yada, yada, yada.  

That thread is borne out in some facts and not in others.  But it is there for those who are observant about such things.  As I am a keen observer of both male and female concepts in society, I see it a lot.

What I have noticed are concepts dropping out of that thread for males - concepts of honor, dignity, honesty, and integrity.  Not everywhere...but I cannot but wonder if those males raised without those concepts driven into them of "what it means to be a 'man'"...find themselves without an internal sense of direction in some instances.

And how then do the females of the population perceive such individuals?  Is that thread gradually turning -men- into something else?  Something less?  How else do you explain Maxim magazine? 

We see a lot of guys here wrestling with the concepts of fidelity in the face of difficult circumstances - loveless marriage, vanilla partners...etc.   My own experiences over the past two plus years on this site are that many many of them espouse concepts of Female Superiority either in their posts or in their profiles. 

The whole concept of Female Superiority completely embraces the underlying thread and adds to the collective consciousness by espousing concepts that males are worthless, rudderless, in need of direction, worthy only of scorn...

It's a struggle to be a man today...even if you were raised with the concepts of honor and integrity in the face of difficulty.  The thread to my mind now whispers into every ear that it is somehow okay for men to be something less than they were before...I find that troubling. 




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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 2:03:38 PM   
SorceressJ


Posts: 2968
Joined: 7/24/2010
Status: offline 		People are human. All of us, regardless of plumbing. Individuals are just that, and it has far less to do with gender than most people seem to think.
'Gender supremacy' is at it's best a fun and pleasant fantasy, and at it's worst a damaging fallacy. All women are not this and all men are not that, sorry. This is real life; thank you, drive through.
Even as a Dominant, and with all due respect to the dead, I would never treat a male in my care as was suggested in Ms. Bellemare's work. Across-the-board female supremacy is no better or correct than it's opposite, and I will have no part of it. My opinion only:

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 2:04:02 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I read the article, She sounded like a cunt.




AYNNE is a cunt. DIVI is a cunt. Ingrid is a douchecanoe.

Get it straight, have you learned nothing from me!!

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 2:11:43 PM   
SorceressJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I read the article, She sounded like a cunt.




AYNNE is a cunt. DIVI is a cunt. Ingrid is a douchecanoe.

Get it straight, have you learned nothing from me!!


I prefer the word "bitch" to "cunt", mostly because I know very good and well I am one. I also like traffic lights and wearing big silly hats.




Attachment (1)

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 2:12:50 PM   
Twoshoes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff
I read the article, She sounded like a cunt.


Cannot Understand 'Nything you Typed.

Does your commentary come in a French or German version? I could use illustrations.

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 8/31/2010 2:14:09 PM >

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RE: RIP Ingrid Bellemare - 8/31/2010 2:18:06 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

actually, you can see from the profile on slaveregister that she updated a few months before she passed away that her slave which I assume is the one mentioned in the book had become ill, and she was searching for a new one.


Good research there. I do think he was the one who maintained her blog; now I wonder what his illness meant in terms of his relationship; she was writing about cuckholding in the end.....


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