RE: Sympathy for the devil?

RE: Sympathy for the devil? (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 11:28:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam One way to look at it is this. He was found guilty in a court of law and then he was sentenced by a jury of his peers. Fellow felons. So you approve of rape? That's basically what this comes down to. Regardless of what he did, he was sentenced under our justice system. That punishment did not include repeated sexual violations. If you feel that we should have a system that includes sexual violation as a punishment, I suggest lobbying your Senator. The individual, in this case, really isn't the point. The point is that we have a prison system rampent with abuse and rape of fellow inmates. Allowing it in any cases is unacceptable and simply defeats the point of the time they spend there. Why should anyone in there reform when society allows them to be raped?

AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 11:30:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zenny quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub But I don't want our nation's prisons to be a place where the men and woman that go in come out worse than they were because such violence is tolerated. He sentenced to time in jail - not rape. Unfortunately that's exactly what happens. Just a fyi but there is a large difference between jail and prison. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm aware that there is a difference but frequently use the terms interchangably even though I know they aren't interchangable. I just forget. [:)]

rulemylife -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 12:08:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam One way to look at it is this. He was found guilty in a court of law and then he was sentenced by a jury of his peers. Fellow felons. My understanding was he pled guilty but was awaiting sentencing, but that's beside the point. He might have done a few years in prison but he would not have been given a death sentence, which is exactly what the guards attempted to impose when they looked the other way while another inmate was stomping repeatedly on his head.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 12:24:11 PM)
If you plead guilty in court, then you are found guilty. You are just hoping for a lighter sentence. In cases of child particularly heinous child molestation, I'm all for the death penalty. I'd call generating explicit child pornography particularly heinous. You are possibly correct that he shouldnt have been put in prison where his person might have been violated. I mean the guy that did him might catch most anything. No, he should have been just taken out back and shot like a mad dog. Otherwise, as you said, he would have served a few years and gotten out. Gotten out to do more children. As it is we, the taxpayers, will have to maintain him for the rest of his life in a nursing home where, if he regains consciousness and his faculties, he will be a risk to prey on the other residents.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 12:32:48 PM)
In theory I'm with you regarding the death penalty for child molesters and the like. Of course it depends on the case's specifics. However, the sentence must be carried out by the state according to the laws set by the state regarding the taking of human life. Not by inmates and not by guards. If we allow it in one circumstance, it only encourages it in others, causes more problems, breeds violence in our prisons and we have quite enough of that.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 12:38:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam One way to look at it is this. He was found guilty in a court of law and then he was sentenced by a jury of his peers. Fellow felons. So you approve of rape? That's basically what this comes down to. Regardless of what he did, he was sentenced under our justice system. That punishment did not include repeated sexual violations. If you feel that we should have a system that includes sexual violation as a punishment, I suggest lobbying your Senator. The individual, in this case, really isn't the point. The point is that we have a prison system rampent with abuse and rape of fellow inmates. Allowing it in any cases is unacceptable and simply defeats the point of the time they spend there. Why should anyone in there reform when society allows them to be raped? I'm sorry but I can't generate any sympathy for a convicted child pornographer, molester, rapist, etc. I really can't come up one bit of give a damn about either him being or having his head slammed into the concrete. I believe those types should just be executed. That said I have a huge problem with the prison guards not doing their job. Prison is not supposed to be a free for all. We can not allow this type of behavior.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 12:40:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 I'm sorry but I can't generate any sympathy for a convicted child pornographer, molester, rapist, etc. I really can't come up one bit of give a damn about either him being or having his head slammed into the concrete. I believe those types should just be executed. That said I have a huge problem with the prison guards not doing their job. Prison is not supposed to be a free for all. We can not allow this type of behavior. Like I said... really doesn't matter if you feel sympathy for him or not. It's a question of if we are going to allow inmates to rape each other. Edited to add: FYI, if you'll note, I said I don't have much for him either. I simply don't believe that allowing the inmates to dole out punishments is a good idea and that this shouldn't be encouraged or tolerated in any form.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 12:55:29 PM)
I also said this *That said I have a huge problem with the prison guards not doing their job. Prison is not supposed to be a free for all. We can not allow this type of behavior.* But he is not the one to pick to point out the problem. I don't know about PA, but I don't think there is anywhere in the South that you could get those guards or administrators punished for anything.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 12:58:19 PM)
Why not? He's an inmate, he's supposed to be protected by the rules just as anyone else in there - it's a prison, people are in there for a reason. It's not like we are going to find a little six year old poster child for everyone to rally behind. People simply need to decide they are comfortable with sexual violation as a punishment in our prisons. I'm simply not comfortable inmate rape being part of our justice system.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 1:20:36 PM)
It's the nature of the crime. It's hard to find anyone who cares about what happens to him, not even the inmates.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 1:27:37 PM)
ESPECIALLY not the inmates.

Rule -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 1:32:05 PM)
His crime is irrelevant. His punishment by lawful sentence is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether the mores and laws serving to protect our citizens and guests from violence and harassment are valid for all of the population or whether inmates are excluded from these protections. In my opinion anyone who condones and approves of violence and harassment of inmates cannot conscientiously oppose the same treatment of innocent citizens. How inmates are treated is a yardstick by which the degree of civilization of a country is measured, I reiterate. As for me, I would do away with prisons altogether. There are other - sometimes violent, but honorable - ways to come to terms with a convicted person.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 5:06:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 It's the nature of the crime. It's hard to find anyone who cares about what happens to him, not even the inmates. So what? Do you really think it make that much of a difference if he was in there for a white collar crime of embezzling? "Oh well he fucked people over financially, let him get fucked physically!" People don't care what happens to inmates. Particularly male ones. quote: ESPECIALLY not the inmates. Yeah the drug dealers, murderers, thieves, kidnappers, swindlers, etc of the world have such a great moral compass. We should totally follow their example in how we structure our justice system and hand out punishments.

rulemylife -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 6:17:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If you plead guilty in court, then you are found guilty. You are just hoping for a lighter sentence. In cases of child particularly heinous child molestation, I'm all for the death penalty. I'd call generating explicit child pornography particularly heinous. You are possibly correct that he shouldnt have been put in prison where his person might have been violated. I mean the guy that did him might catch most anything. No, he should have been just taken out back and shot like a mad dog. Otherwise, as you said, he would have served a few years and gotten out. Gotten out to do more children. As it is we, the taxpayers, will have to maintain him for the rest of his life in a nursing home where, if he regains consciousness and his faculties, he will be a risk to prey on the other residents. Why would I be hoping for a lighter sentence? I've got no stake in defending him. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of your argument. If you believe that the death penalty is appropriate then petition to change the laws, but vigilante justice just makes us lawless.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 7:59:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If you plead guilty in court, then you are found guilty. You are just hoping for a lighter sentence. In cases of child particularly heinous child molestation, I'm all for the death penalty. I'd call generating explicit child pornography particularly heinous. You are possibly correct that he shouldnt have been put in prison where his person might have been violated. I mean the guy that did him might catch most anything. No, he should have been just taken out back and shot like a mad dog. Otherwise, as you said, he would have served a few years and gotten out. Gotten out to do more children. As it is we, the taxpayers, will have to maintain him for the rest of his life in a nursing home where, if he regains consciousness and his faculties, he will be a risk to prey on the other residents. Why would I be hoping for a lighter sentence? I've got no stake in defending him. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of your argument. If you believe that the death penalty is appropriate then petition to change the laws, but vigilante justice just makes us lawless. Pleease, reading comprehension. When someone writes "If you plead guilty in court, then you are found guilty. You are just hoping for a lighter sentence. " They dont mean YOU as an individual, they mean ANYONE that pleads guilty. SHEESH Therefore, there is no fallacy in My argument. You are the one that said he would serve a few years and get out. do you approve of that? Get out to prey on more children? Rape them? Force them into sex acts?. We would be a LOT better off if animals like that were taken out back after conviction and shot. My main sympathy is for the state that will have to pay for his medical care and the guy he called "silverback" that might now have a nasty infection.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 8:02:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam We would be a LOT better off if animals like that were taken out back after conviction and shot. Perhaps and I'd agree with you if not for the fact that people are occasionally convincted falsely and, hence, everyone deserves the same number of appeals. However, the sentences should be handled by the state. Not by fellow criminals at the guards urging. Anything less and we become what they are. Honestly, do you really think tolerating violence in the prisons is a good thing? That just shows the inmates that they can get away with what they want. This time you approve because they are going for someone who turns your stomach. What about when they go for a guard?

TheHeretic -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 8:13:34 PM)
Yeah, I'm having a hard time working up much sympathy here. I'm pretty much an intolerant, violent, asshole when it comes to such predators who do it for fun. Put one in front of me who was doing it for money and a proper stomping might seem like a good way to start. That said, if guards were involved in the attacks on this man, they should be forfeiting their jobs and pensions as an absolute minimum.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 8:21:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam We would be a LOT better off if animals like that were taken out back after conviction and shot. Perhaps and I'd agree with you if not for the fact that people are occasionally convincted falsely and, hence, everyone deserves the same number of appeals. However, the sentences should be handled by the state. Not by fellow criminals at the guards urging. Anything less and we become what they are. Honestly, do you really think tolerating violence in the prisons is a good thing? That just shows the inmates that they can get away with what they want. This time you approve because they are going for someone who turns your stomach. What about when they go for a guard? Had there been a trial, Id be inclined to agree about the appeals but in this case, he pled guilty. I'm assuming he did that because he knew he was nailed and wanted to get a lighter sentence.

AquaticSub -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 8:33:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Had there been a trial, Id be inclined to agree about the appeals but in this case, he pled guilty. I'm assuming he did that because he knew he was nailed and wanted to get a lighter sentence. Maybe, maybe not. There have been isolated cases where people were pressured into pleading. But, even if we have a system where a guilty plea means a death sentence, it's still a matter for the state and not the inmates. I stand firm that tolerating any inmate violence is terrible idea. Even if you have no compassion for the rape victims in prison, surely you don't think fostering a culture of violence and rape is healthy for inmates and those whose job it is to guard and tend to them?

tazzygirl -> RE: Sympathy for the devil? (8/30/2010 8:44:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam One way to look at it is this. He was found guilty in a court of law and then he was sentenced by a jury of his peers. Fellow felons. That is indeed one way of looking at it. Looking at it that way implies that one approves of and condones violence and the promulgation of human suffering. Now I do think that violence and death can serve a purpose. I know about a truck driver who every morning early came to pick up a mate and used his claxon to announce his presence, waking up everybody in the vicinity. Someone eventually got so mad about that that he ran out, pulled open the door of that truck and gave the driver a punch in the face, and subsequently nicely asked him not to use his claxon any more that early in the morning. He appreciated that request and henceforth abstained from waking up the neighborhood. Similarly, I think that my neighbor with his loud music would be reborn as a civilized person if someone punched him hard in the face and subsequently asked him nicely to not harass his neighbors any more with his uncivilized behavior. Unfortunately I neither have the muscles nor the personality to civilize this anti-social ogre. However, putting a chicken in the chicken coop and allowing him and even encouraging him to be picked to death by the other chickens in the coop is callous and inhumane behavior in my opinion. And not a proper way for those other chickens to regain some honor. Wait... isnt this the same man that said the following.... quote: Sexually transmitted diseases are a blessing for the human race, given to us by one of the mighty pagan gods - and thus by the his will facilitating Divine. All those who circumcise or with a circumcised penis, oppose this god's will and thus blaspheme; they ought to be dead. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3236501 And he is now trying to sit in moral judgement on others?

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