RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves

RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (Full Version)

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SirGuy68 -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/13/2010 5:47:02 PM)
Well originally my knowledge quest was not what it has developed into. It was based on the idea that a Master who breaks and trains in the lifestyle and then marries his slave, do you consider the legal consequences and the power now given to your pet by marriage? Does that sway or weigh your decision to marry a pet in the life style? You may go into the marriage as D & s but upon divorce that could change. As a lifestyle Master, or let's identify it a 50's or Gorean house hold relationship, do you feel the power that your sub can have in a divorce would affect your decision to marry your pet? The Marque De Sade may have been extreme for his time and even by todays standards, quite the player but, the church and state were MUCH more powerful than M. Francois. That remains the case in many states in the US today. We all saw what the feds did in TX just because one man was polygamous and created too large a family. More recently social workers transplanted numerous children in PA? (Or was that Nevada - goes to show how in tune I am with news) stuck them in foster homes while the courts decided what was in the best interest. In both scenarios the Master had the dominance to lead and support his family and the state was able to remove it in a flash under any guise they chose to label it. I suppose this thread fits the saying: 'The only thing permanent is change' Be Well

KnightofMists -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/13/2010 6:33:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 This is why I would never recommend that someone give up their job, finances, friends, family or home to be with someone. Love does not conquer all. Common sense and self protection should be paramount to anything else. I actually disagree with the idea in general as being an absolute. Can love conquer all... well love hasn't stop world hunger so I guess that part is true. However, Love within a relationship can be very powerful. But I am not talking blind love or selfish love. It is the thoughtful and considered love we have for a person and the relationship one can build we such a person. It isn't the selfish love of what the person can do for me, but the love for who the person is and what we can do together. This kind of love can indeed conquer all that I have seen... maybe not all.... but yet we haven't failed to conquer everything in our path. Alandra and I have been together for over 20 years and well we have both given much but have recieved alot more than we have given. Kyra has been in our life for over 5 years and in particular has given up her job, moved away 2500 miles from family and friends to be with us. She was able to do this not because becauase she keep common sense and self protection as paramount and developed thoughtful and considered love for us to make these decisions. The fact of the matter is that Common Sense and self protection can co-exist rather nicely with Love.

DesFIP -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/13/2010 7:54:32 PM)
If the sub wants out, then marriage or not, he/she gets to leave. Would you really want someone living with you who despised you, distrusted you, and whose skin crawled at your touch? And in that case, the sub should not be penniless on the streets. No matter why it ended, and make no mistake, both parties bear equal amounts of the blame, they should not be homeless as a result. OP, you keep trying to make a case for being a selfish ass who holds the sub by coercion and who won't owe her a cent even of what she earned and contributed. Whether that earnings came in the form of her paycheck which she turned over to you, or by freeing you of irksome responsibilities at home so you could spend more time at the office, she earned it either way. You can do a pre-nup if one of you has a great deal more assets than the other, or you can establish a savings account for her in case of need. Either way, a decent dominant does not leave someone who he has had this kind of power over high and dry.

Zevar -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/13/2010 7:56:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirGuy68 Taking into consideration the current divorce laws in the US would you marry, from a life style point of view, a sub / slave? If so why, or why not.. What are you views, pro or con, that you see affecting a life style relationship? I ask this of men, masters, males. Be Well Marrying has nothing to do with current divorce laws. I do not see marrying in order to divorce. I am the sort of man that is in for the long haul. When my beloved companion & I married I did not do so to leave her or divorce her when I was displeased with her. Instead I vowed to love her through everything. I did what I vowed to do unto her passing. It is rather perplexing IMO to consider that a man would part with a lady he claimed to love. But then I love intensely deep with a unrelenting passion. I have no reference for abandoning a beloved companion/spouse. I could not imagine walking away once I have consciously exchanged a vow of love. I realize in some relationships issues arise that are irresolvable in relation to remaining together, one to another. Only then do I believe that parting is inevitable when abuse is acted out in a relationship. Abuse is clearly not love! Therefore unless a sustained bond of healthy love is mutually shared then I cannot justify ever relating one to another. Surely I would not consider relating simply to divorce or abandon another. How foolish to enter into an arrangement that is known to end from the beginning. Seems rather futile and purposeless. Without both parties equally committed I see no reason to proceed toward marriage & certainly not any form of long term relating either. Laws are what they are. However it is not law that governs my choice to commit to a vow of love. I am the one responsible with proceeding to Live what I vowed. I am solely responsible for my actions and words. IMO-I do means just that. I do! Integrity is nothing to play with, aye! Take care!

OsideGirl -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/14/2010 7:19:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirGuy68 You may go into the marriage as D & s but upon divorce that could change. As a lifestyle Master, or let's identify it a 50's or Gorean house hold relationship, do you feel the power that your sub can have in a divorce would affect your decision to marry your pet? If I've decided to divorce him, the power exchange is over and that happens whether there is a marriage or not. At that point, they're no longer your submissive, so shouldn't a he/she be an equal when it comes to divorce?

AquaticSub -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/14/2010 11:20:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirGuy68 You may go into the marriage as D & s but upon divorce that could change. As a lifestyle Master, or let's identify it a 50's or Gorean house hold relationship, do you feel the power that your sub can have in a divorce would affect your decision to marry your pet? Erm... anytime the relationship ends the power dynamic ends too. And you know, in some states - depending on how long you've been together or lived together, you don't have to be a married to have rights. Even if we weren't married, Valyraen would never leave me without my fair share of our accumulated money/possessions. I worked hard to please him and to bring home my paycheck as well. What does marriage have to with it? Even if he never married me, what sort of man would he be if he held back and didn't divide things fairly if our relationship ended? Certainly not one I'd want to be with. I didn't come into this relationship penniless, without anything to my name. He never consider me leaving that way.

peacefulplace -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/14/2010 11:46:00 AM)
As others have pointed out, this seems to be more of a legal question regarding divorce than anything else. As with marriage vows, any sub/slave can change her mind, depending on her mindset and the conditions of the relationship, regardless of the legality. If they are unmarried, any master who would leave his (unemployed) slave without any support should she decide that the relationship is not working, is a tool.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/14/2010 7:17:50 PM)
Yes, I would marry her . . . she wouldn't be obligated to testify against me.

FredW -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/15/2010 6:51:53 PM)
I am not interested in getting married. Neither is my collared slave. We have both been there, done that, have a divorce decree to show for it. That being said, if I were to marry, at this time I would think it would be to my sub. If I didn't think that she was special enough to keep my interest for a long time, I would not have collared her. My emotional connection to her is important to me.

thornhappy -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/15/2010 7:21:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirGuy68 We all saw what the feds did in TX just because one man was polygamous and created too large a family. .... In both scenarios the Master had the dominance to lead and support his family and the state was able to remove it in a flash under any guise they chose to label it. In the first scenario at least, that community (and its sister community in Arizona) is rife with abuse. Non-consenting abuse. If you want to learn more about it, see this article, or read Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer.

WyldHrt -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/15/2010 8:10:59 PM)
quote: We all saw what the feds did in TX just because one man was polygamous and created too large a family. More recently social workers transplanted numerous children in PA? (Or was that Nevada - goes to show how in tune I am with news) stuck them in foster homes while the courts decided what was in the best interest. In both scenarios the Master had the dominance to lead and support his family and the state was able to remove it in a flash under any guise they chose to label it. Just... wow. Please educate yourself before spewing nonsense like this. Suggesting that WIITWD has anything to do with the practices of the FLDS is completely repugnant. I would elaborate, but doing so would likely get me modded for TOS. Suffice to say that serious abuse and criminal behaviour well beyond polygamy was and is still practiced by the FLDS.

SirGuy68 -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/17/2010 5:06:56 PM)
My anology is that in both instances the federal government and the state had the power to come in and do what they please, and they did. The more recent event, that obviously you now all about so please tell me what state it was that: 1] child services did not like the children living in a polygamous enviroment, 2] scattered this family into foster homes, 3] then several months later the court ruled that there was nothing wrong with the enviroment the children were living in. There are many things that are amiss as to why David Koresh if the FEDS wanted to pick him up, why not just grab him when he was away from the compound? What little information we are allowed to be given by the feds is sparse but often at times enough to find something that does not add up. I did not post this to debate acts of the US military or our government. I just from memory ( I don't go surfing google) refferenced two events that I recalled that were not your typical 1.5 kids, picket fence and a dog and, to be blunt, the shit went down wrong. Like divorce law if the courts, goverment or police want to step in they can. How does that affect a Master's (Male) mind regarding marriage or the consequences of divroce with his slave, pet, sub or what ever you wish to label the relationship. Be Well

SirGuy68 -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/17/2010 5:17:21 PM)
>so shouldn't a he/she be an equal when it comes to divorce? I do not know that answer Oside. That is why I asked other's opinion on weighing the consequences, both good and bad surrounding marriage / divorce and how does that affect, as a Master, in a relationship not as typical marrying June Clever. Another thought. A justice of the peace, a minister, a rabbi, a ships captain and others can validate a marriage (after you get a marriage license from your town hall) in the US and it is recognized by the state and federal government but a state judge has to approve the divorce, even if both parties are in agreement.

leadership527 -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/17/2010 5:43:40 PM)
For me this is a question around courage, commitment, and honor not equality. This is how I view the question. Whether or not I had married Carol and whether or not I was obligated by law to pay her anything if we split up, the truth is we've been a partnership for 15 years now and I owe her by my own lights. So I'm not afraid of the financial part. My own honor would drive me in that direction anyway. In a purely ownership standpoint, I can't see myself being comfortable with using someone for 15 years and pocketing the entirety of the gains accrued during that time. By my own ethical standards that would be corrupt use of authority. So it costs me nothing to put in writing a commitment that I would've honored anyway. Insofar as the courage & commitment parts.... what can I say? I made a selection that I felt would "go the distance" and I was willing to have the courage of my convictions. I'm not, nor have I ever been, interest in doing much of anything half way. Honestly, it never occurred to me to think about "what if it goes belly up". If it does, financial obligations will be the least of my concerns. I have way too much emotional skin in the game for money to be an issue. And from an M/s angle, Carol has put her very being up on the table. My money is paltry in comparison.

AnimusRex -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/18/2010 8:09:55 PM)
OP- I guess part of the problem you are struggling with is that you want a long term relationship filled with intimacy and trust, but you don't want the risk of getting financially hurt. Tough to arrange, I think. Prenups, artfully arranged finances, maybe, but in the end, if someone who has lived in your home for say 20 years and performed duties and services that reasonable people would consider "wifely", then, sorry pal, you are headed for a divorce with all the trimmings of alimony, child custody/ support, property division, you name it. Trying the argument that she was a slave and not a wife might provide the judge and attorneys with some good laughter as they shared drinks afterward, but wouldn't likely help your case. Most laws and legal precedents that I am aware of are designed specifically to prevent such an outcome as you are proposing.

SirGuy68 -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/22/2010 4:30:04 AM)
No, that is not correct. I was curious from a non vanilla, atypical relationship point of view what other Masters and men felt about the current divorce laws and how, in the event of a divorce it could give your sub/ slave/ pet more control. Do they even give it any thought? Does it affect your decision of proposing? Be Well

AquaticSub -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/22/2010 10:51:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 And from an M/s angle, Carol has put her very being up on the table. My money is paltry in comparison. That's just beautiful.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/22/2010 1:04:16 PM)
Marriage is awesome - it's the only way to get a real live sales receipt and proof of ownership. Yes, I would marry again.

SirDireWolf -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/27/2010 8:01:40 PM)
I married my subby and would do it again. Marriage is a commitment, much like a collar is a commitment. One has legal meaning, the other is not. With either you should not be looking for how it is going to end. That is looking at things with a negative set of glasses. If you are not in it for the long haul, what exactly are you in it for? I think you need to break off the Poly part of the discussion. Because in my mind it is 2 seperate arguments. Poly is never going to be accepted by main stream America, any old school Mormon and answer that question. If you are going to build a very large poly house with kidlets you are bound to have problems with the authorities. Nothing will change that simple fact. I am not against Poly, just stating my opinion on how the vanilla society is going to view it. Till Next, Mike aka SirDireWolf

hausboy -> RE: Marriage, Sub and Slaves (9/27/2010 8:40:57 PM)
If you're going into your relationship already planning your divorce, do the both of you a favor, and don't marry. Divorce: = most pain I've ever experienced.....and the hardest I've ever been fucked. edited: Not directed at you SirDireWolf--meant to respond back to the original OP.

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