How hard is it for (straight) men? (Full Version)

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rednicky -> How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:06:36 AM)

I went out the other night with some friends to a club because one of my friends was feeling down. It was a club or the older crowd. 30+. I felt out of place (I wasn't dressed properly since this was a last minute decision) so I decided to just sit at the table and watch bags and jackets. While there, I had a chance to observe men and women interacting. What I saw sort of surprised me. The women had more than enough attention and usually when one danced alone, it was because she wanted to. But for men, they'd camp along the walls and observed. Unless one came with a girl, they seemed to have a tough time finding a dance partner or someone to just talk to. Very few actually took that chance and approached a woman to ask to dance. They'd wait and hope for an opening (a smile, a come-hither glance, etc...). But none would actually put themselves on the line and risk embarrassment to speak with a girl. Still, you'd rather stand on the wall and not move for the entire night than just walk up to the girl and take whatever happens?

Of course, I'm in no position to judge. I'm not a man. Perhaps it's not that simple. I've never really had a firm grasp of how hard or easy it is for men to find women. Since I don't have many male friends and watch waaaaay too much tv for my own good, I really don't know what it's like for men to go out and find women. Last time I checked, I thought men had an easy time with women. especially when alcohol is involved. but is this just tv? Do guys really struggle? Should women cut them some slack? What can we do to make things easier if it is indeed impossibly hard to approach a woman?

p.s- I know there is no bdsm to this question but I didn't feel it was appropriate for general.



SubPet715 -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:13:43 AM)

It is too tv but it also doesn't help that men...people in general do not take rejection well. It would ruin their night and in general, but i'm speaking for them I don't go to clubs I think it is a terrible place to meet someone.

Do nothing to make it easier on men, it's a culling technique. Wouldn't you rather make it more difficult for a man to approach you so that you get the cream of the crop of men? Rather than just making it easier for every spineless, weak, shy, wallflower to come up to you and get rejected?



juliaoceania -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:18:14 AM)

When I was younger I worked in clubs and went to clubs. Here is how it usually broke down. There are some men that like to go to clubs with their friends and try to get lucky. There are men that take their dates dancing. There are couples that go dancing alone. There are a few lone wolves that hover on the sidelines waiting for a doe to falter so they can score.

The meat market scene is something I have been out of since I was in my 20s and quit bartending. For the most part, men have a hard time picking up a female anytime they like. It just isn't that easy. Lone wolves are the smallest demographic, because most men want to at least have fun with their buddies and socialize if they can't pick up a chick. Women like to go in herds, men like to go in packs, basically. Many people do not go to get picked up at all, but just to dance, or just to have a night out with friends.

What you will see if you go to the same place over and over is there are a small number of women that go specifically to get picked up in bars. They are there to get laid. These are the women that make it worthwhile for men to go to clubs. The "bar fly" is a woman that will get picked up every weekend by a different man. She is often going through a divorce, or some other sort of relationship breakup that left her feeling insecure and/or lonely...

This is just my experience... working in nightclubs sucked. I only go out with friends in large groups now. That might happen once every couple of years for someone's birthday, etc.



rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:22:23 AM)

I dunno. Getting a good man by playing hard to get sounds good in theory. But there are some perfectly nice guys out there who are just plain shy. Sometimes I get really happy just knowing that it's traditional for guys to do the approaching. If it were the other way around, I dunno what I'd do. The great looking guys would have women swarming around them. I'd have no opening. Still, you make a point about getting the cream of the crop by not being so easy.



SubPet715 -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:35:55 AM)

Furthermore to that if you want a good guy, like classic good guy has a job wakes up before noon, pays his bills, stable kind of guy...you can't look in a club.

The people at my job who go to clubs, they're not scum or lower in any way, but their attitude is a very "worry about it tomorrow" so I wouldn't count on them for any sort of stability.

Reading your profile, you want a man to take charge and come to you, at the same time you are intrigued by the shy wallflower types, it's sort of hard to have it every way but never settle for less than you want.

I am "shy" not because women intimidate me but because I mostly observe. Observing people, seeing what is around me, not so much on action unless it strikes me on occasion. Then when it does I am a spectacular person, going above and beyond to prove to the woman I am with that I am worth every iota of trust that she has put in me. But now I think i'm ranting...the point is never settle for less than what you want.



rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:37:03 AM)

to julia...

Lol you make it sound like some sort of animalistic hunt. I love it!
Yea, I noticed that a lot of guys didn't come alone. They either came with their gf, or some female friends, or some guy friends. But, at this place anyway, there were a looot of men who came alone. The people who were with friends sat at the tables around this big dance floor. But the walls were lined with guys (only guys). There just wasn't any place for one to stand against the wall because it was literally full. They all had drinks. And they all stared and watched. This place didn't seem the type to be swarming with bar flies (although the idea of bar flies is kinda cool...get your freak on, lady). Most women were dressed to impress and very few stopped to drink much. The ladies were genuinely having a good time. laughing it up. Dancing together. There was no room for alcohol. But the men looked miserable. Those who weren't miserable were focused. Maybe after falter-ers? What do you mean by falter btw? Like trip? Mess up dancing? Or are they being harassed and are in need of male assistance? The reason I ask is because one of the friends who went with us was male. At some point he put his arm around me and pretended to pick me up (since I was sitting at the table and looked bored and all). I played along but I played the part of appalled female club-goer. "Excuse me, did you need something?" "How dare you say that to me!" And he was like "lol stop. There are plenty of guys here who would love to swoop in and be your white knight." I didn't believe him. But is this an example of a falter?



juliaoceania -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:45:22 AM)

What I meant was, a woman who is so drunk she becomes an easy mark.



rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 9:47:14 AM)

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I am not interested in these wall flowers. I wasn't looking for a guy at all simply because I don't know i they are dominant enough. Part of the reason i turned to the internetz to help me find a guy is because men who come off as dominant in real life, usually back down when the woman raises her voice even a little, for fear of her calling the cops or whatever. They seem to tolerate bitchiness and I don't much care for that. I want a guy who'll put me in my place if I start to step out of line. Not someone who will walk away to avoid issues rather than dealing with the problem right then and there.

I just feel for the wall flowers. That's all. And there were so many. For me, it's like seeing a starving dog watch other dogs chow down on some nice juicy steaks. Stop being hungry! Go out and eat! Have fun! Be happy. You got dressed up and spent money to get here. And obviously you're here to interact with the opposite sex, otherwise you probably would just go to a bar. The drinks are cheaper and the dress code isn't so demanding. But you are 'here'. Talk to women. Dance with women. They seem nice enough. They aren't looking to destroy you. I dunno. I just don't like to see people like that. I can't explain it.



Musicmystery -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 10:15:44 AM)

quote:

The women had more than enough attention and usually when one danced alone, it was because she wanted to. But for men, they'd camp along the walls and observed.


Then just who is giving these women that attention, if not the men?

PLENTY of women sit around complaining "Why can't I meet any guys?"



TheHeretic -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 10:20:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

What I meant was, a woman who is so drunk she becomes an easy mark.



Your first description was more accurate.



DCWoody -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 10:34:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

When I was younger I worked in clubs and went to clubs. Here is how it usually broke down. There are some men that like to go to clubs with their friends and try to get lucky. There are men that take their dates dancing. There are couples that go dancing alone. There are a few lone wolves that hover on the sidelines waiting for a doe to falter so they can score.

The meat market scene is something I have been out of since I was in my 20s and quit bartending. For the most part, men have a hard time picking up a female anytime they like. It just isn't that easy. Lone wolves are the smallest demographic, because most men want to at least have fun with their buddies and socialize if they can't pick up a chick. Women like to go in herds, men like to go in packs, basically. Many people do not go to get picked up at all, but just to dance, or just to have a night out with friends.

What you will see if you go to the same place over and over is there are a small number of women that go specifically to get picked up in bars. They are there to get laid. These are the women that make it worthwhile for men to go to clubs. The "bar fly" is a woman that will get picked up every weekend by a different man. She is often going through a divorce, or some other sort of relationship breakup that left her feeling insecure and/or lonely...

This is just my experience... working in nightclubs sucked. I only go out with friends in large groups now. That might happen once every couple of years for someone's birthday, etc.



Women who go out looking to get laid are going through hard times, feeling insecure, vunerable......whereas men who go out looking to get laid are predators? [:D]



rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 10:40:06 AM)

I think she was referring to 'how' men did it. Men who were looking for sex (in her description anyways) looked for someone who was weak, drunk, vulnerable, which makes them predators. And music, the women on the dance floor were dancing with either each other or men that they came with. Very few danced with people they just met. And Plenty of women sit around complaining "why can't I find the 'right' man?" And those same women will complain about getting a ton of attention from the wrong kinds of guys, i.e those guys who get drunk first before approaching.



Lockit -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 10:49:01 AM)

Oh yes, I went to bars to get me some because I was insecure, lonely and needed a man... just like I am here at a site like this and just need to get me some. This is what drives me a little batty... this general attitude that if a women is in a certain place... she just wants to get some. She is a bar fly, a queen of the happy drinking hole sitting on her throne, easy mark, lonely, insecure, wounded and there for pleasing males who go in herds to do some mating ritual that doesn't make them lonely, insecure, wounded or a bar fly.

Why is it seen as dysfunctional to go to a bar or a web site such as this? Why must there be something wrong with a person who does these things?

I went to bars to make money. I went to bars to shoot pool. I went to dance and listen to live bands and I went for the laughs. I went after work to chill before going home. I went to drink. I rarely decided I was horny and wanted to get me some. Going out wasn't the answer to anything but some enjoyment. Yet... men wouldn't leave me alone and it did bother me. So much in fact that I stopped doing all those things I enjoyed because I couldn't sit and have a drink and relax or just go for a good time without most men in the joint thinking I was looking for a 'good time' and that would be providing their enjoyment with a one night stand. There were men looking for the same things I was and didn't treat me or the situation like a meat market because the place served alcohol and entertainment. Not all men were there to get them some.

When I first started bartending, I went to other bars or clubs for live music as those weren't the types of bars I worked at. I liked working neighborhood bars and sports bars. I would see men come in and be the wall flower type and would go and invite them to join me in whatever it was I was doing. Most were receptive and very thankful. I had made another friend. Only one rejected me and the look of disgust on his face when I asked him to join us was amazing. 'Look man I don't need some bar fly trying to get what's in my pocket!' Idiot, he was alone and I like people to have a good time. You want to spend money standing there not having a good time, go for it, but I thought to give you another option, not give you some. The disgust on his face said it all. He wasn't sitting, he was standing and looking around and all I did was welcome him. Maybe he just wanted to relax after work, but my welcoming him wasn't a pick up line.

Many I met were going through a break up and were a little lost, but some were working out of town and were bored and needed to let off a little steam or have something to do other than look at motel walls. Some didn't know how to dance, some didn't shoot pool, some were angry, some were shy. I wouldn't want to assume why they did it, I asked and sometimes did something about it. But there are times that both men and women just want to sit and have a drink and do nothing but that, relaxing from the day. It can be just as simple as that. Then again it can simply be a meat market, if that is all someone wants to make of it.

Cheers



rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 10:59:22 AM)

are you getting bar and club mixed up?



Lockit -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 11:02:49 AM)

There can be a difference between a bar and a club... yes, but basically a woman in either place is seen as an easy mark looking to fill a spot in her life and prey to herds of men looking to get some. Just as women here are seen as an easy mark and a play toy. It isn't the place, it's an attitude.



rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 11:21:23 AM)

Your views on clubs and bars are a little askew. I wonder where you've actually been. It depends on what a woman does there that tells men how to handle her. I'm not one for bars. Bars seem to be all about drinking and drinking is a waste (to me). But I can't speak for what goes on in bars. Clubs are all about interacting closely with others, usually the opposite sex (or the sex you are attracted to). If it were just about being with friends, you could stay home and drink and play. Save your gas. It's about being social.

And, in a club scene, the attitude is the exact opposite. Men bitch about women being total prudes. pushing them away at times when they no longer want to dance. The only exception with this club that I reference is that all the women seemed friendly and fun. Still guys didn't move.



Lockit -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 11:31:47 AM)

LOL my views on clubs and bars is askew? I think they are wonderful places that people can go to, to do many different things. Yes there are some idiots found there, but they are found anywhere.

You seem to be the one that has an assessment of bars or clubs that would be your own opinion and something you are categorizing people and places with and expecting that is how it is all the time. I find it odd that so many think that people in bars or clubs are any different than anyone just about anywhere. I don't care if people drink or where they drink as long as they are responsible about it. I don't judge someone in a bar because they don't do something or they do. Whether it is a happy, free flowing place or a place where everyone is a snob or sits on their ass doing nothing, people are people wherever they go and they do what they do.

Because a woman is friendly and welcoming doesn't mean a man wants to be welcomed or take part. Doesn't mean there is something wrong with him or the big bad women. Stop trying to find fault with women dissing men so badly that they are wimps! Stop assuming because a woman is friendly and out going, men should know how to deal with her. Would they know how to deal with her if she wore a skimpy outfit or a suit? Oh the suit gets respect the skimpy outfit doesn't get? How the fuck do they know how to deal with a woman by how she acts? Judgment, assumptions and all that could be wrong. Many men thought because I smiled it was a come on. Hell, I was just being friendly but not that damn friendly!



rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 11:39:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Stop trying to find fault with women dissing men so badly that they are wimps! Stop assuming because a woman is friendly and out going, men should know how to deal with her. Would they know how to deal with her if she wore a skimpy outfit or a suit? Oh the suit gets respect the skimpy outfit doesn't get? How the fuck do they know how to deal with a woman by how she acts? Judgment, assumptions and all that could be wrong. Many men thought because I smiled it was a come on. Hell, I was just being friendly but not that damn friendly!



Lol you are waaaay out there. Sounds like you're ranting to...no one...rather than really adding anything to the thread.

quote:



Stop assuming because a woman is friendly and out going, men should know how to deal with her. Would they know how to deal with her if she wore a skimpy outfit or a suit? Oh the suit gets respect the skimpy outfit doesn't get? How the fuck do they know how to deal with a woman by how she acts? Judgment, assumptions and all that could be wrong. Many men thought because I smiled it was a come on. Hell, I was just being friendly but not that damn friendly!



no one said anything about any of that...but you. No one said women who did this or that shouldn't be respected but you. No one mentioned skimpy outfits or friendly women being misinterpreted as slutty or gold digging. No one said anything about judging. Except for you of course.



Lockit -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 11:46:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

Your views on clubs and bars are a little askew. I wonder where you've actually been. It depends on what a woman does there that tells men how to handle her. I'm not one for bars. Bars seem to be all about drinking and drinking is a waste (to me). But I can't speak for what goes on in bars. Clubs are all about interacting closely with others, usually the opposite sex (or the sex you are attracted to). If it were just about being with friends, you could stay home and drink and play. Save your gas. It's about being social.

And, in a club scene, the attitude is the exact opposite. Men bitch about women being total prudes. pushing them away at times when they no longer want to dance. The only exception with this club that I reference is that all the women seemed friendly and fun. Still guys didn't move.


What was it you just said? lol



DomImus -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 11:46:58 AM)

I think you are making way too many assumptions based on your observations. I played in bar bands off and on for twenty years and was able to witness all of this. Many people just like to go out to go out. I think your premise that these unescorted men in bars are mostly unhappy wallflowers is mostly incorrect. I wonder how many of those guys had discussions the next day with their friends about "that poor girl at that table who was the designated purse and coat minder".





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