Romance and D/s (Full Version)

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CunLinguist -> Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 2:50:18 AM)

I'm curious about the intersection of romance and D/s. I'm just calling it “romance” for lack of a better term... could mean marriage, dating relationship, life-partner, etc. And as far as the intersection of the two, what I mean is this...

I was recently in a committed relationship with a Mistress but I was, pure and simply, Her submissive toy. She was married to another Dom so the lines were clearly defined in terms of my role and how far our attachments for one another could develop. She has since released me from Her care and I'm now at a place where I'm interested in seeking a more “complete” relationship with a female, preferably a Domme. I truly enjoyed my time with Her and am very appreciative for all that She offered but I'm ready to move on.

But as I search around CM I get a little discouraged. First of all, there seems to be a plethora of women out there who are looking to get paid to dominate. Some of these Dommes sound like very interesting individuals but it seems like they have to put up a “wall to the world” so to speak... unless of course you fork out a few hundred dollars for a new pair of shoes and then you're allowed half an hour of Skype time. I'm curious to know if most of these women keep their kink-related lives separate from their more vanilla-ish romantic life? Do many of you allow yourselves to fall in love with a submissive toy? Or do you only seek romantic trysts outside of “work”? Do you deliberately seek out dominant or submissive personalities in the guys you date?

Another related question I have concerns vulnerability and respect. As far as vulnerability is concerned, how far will you let a submissive “in”? It seems like it might be tough to let your guard down around your submissive(s). I can totally understand this in a pay-for-service relationship but what about with a sub you are romantically involved/interested with? Still difficult to do? In my mind, a healthy (non-kink) relationship requires trust and vulnerability, but then in the kink-focused arena that vulnerability seems to be disproportionately centered on the shoulders of the submissive. I'm not really sure how this plays out exactly so any thoughts you may provide would be appreciated.

And as for my question regarding respect, how easy or difficult is it for you to have respect for a submissive after you've subjected him to frequent humiliations and degradations? Once again, I guess this isn't imperative in a pay-for-service situation nor with a sub who is just a play partner. But what about your sub husband or life-partner? Are you able to sissify him, slap him around a bit, have him beg and grovel and then still look at him with a sense of respect and equanimity the next morning?

Thanks for reading my post and thank you in advance for any insight you may provide. Cheers!



DarkSteven -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 5:54:15 AM)

You are saying you want a relationship.  Fair enough.

But from your profile:

In other news, a quick synopsis:
I live in Japan for the indefinite future. I'm happy with what I've got going on so I'm not really looking for any serious commitments.


?



Madame4a -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 5:55:56 AM)

While my situation is not the same as yours.. I will say that I live a very 'blended' as we call it, relationship. She's my boi, my girlfriend, my partner and my butch. A relationship that full and complete is what I wanted after having several partners at once, and several different forms of poly and several forms of very focussed relationships.

Its possible.. but I will say that we don't practice any form of humiliation, if that is what worries you. My guess is, where there is love, anything is possible. Which is a very odd statement coming from me of all people.. LOL... my motto is that love kills slowly (thanks Ed Hardy).

As to finding a partner, I would get OUT into the world, rather than relying on CM -- it can help... but it shouldn't be your only focus as you may be here for years without any luck. If you want a face to face partnership... go face to face.. and actually.. make friends, meet people.. be out and open, just like vanilla dating, and then see what happens.



CunLinguist -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 6:12:14 AM)

@ DarkSteven... The purpose of this post is in fact to satiate my curiosity about how other people are fairing in their kink relationships. I made an effort to qualify more of what I'm looking for in terms of a relationship on my profile but that's beside the point. Again, not exactly the purpose of this post.

Thank you Madame4a. And I totally agree with meeting people out in the real world and not relying on something like CM. I'm trying a bit to navigate the kink world here in Japan but it's not easy seeing as I don't speak the language yet. I'm curious though, did you meet your current partner in a kink-community or outside of it? It's sometimes difficult to bring up the topic of BDSM with a partner or romantic interest that you've met in the "vanilla world". Plus I've found that they often don't share an equivalent level of interest. But I suppose that this just proves they weren't right for me to begin with, but I digress...




Madame4a -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 8:07:50 AM)

On equivalent interest... again, just like vanilla dating, you have to find some common ground -- thing is, if you're in a kink/leather type space, you already have something in common. I'd also suggest while levels of interest and activities are always going to vary -- I've often learned new things, learned to enjoy new things either with or because of a play partner.

My boi and I have known one another for many years.. in the community. She was once the boi of someone I topped for a period of time. We came together and started dating knowing perhaps more than we wanted about each other, but it was all a good thing.

I gave up vanilla dating probably about 15 or more years ago -- it just never worked for me.



LaTigresse -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 8:37:25 AM)

Romance is not generally in my vocabulary[:D].

However......I really don't have any interest in 'just play' and I prefer a long term, committed relationship over a more casual one.



LadyPact -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 9:01:11 AM)

I am someone who has their romantic life separate from their D/s life.  I am poly and My primary relationship with My husband is the romantic one.  However, that doesn't mean that trust and vulnerability can not be in a dynamic.  It's very much the same concept as trusting someone else that you're not necessarily "in love" with.  It also doesn't necessarily mean that there is a financial exchange.  My sub doesn't pay for My time.

Personally, I don't sissify anyone.  It's one of the activities that I have absolutely no interest in and I refuse to do.  As for the rest of play activities, those are some of the things that bring us closer together.  There can be a great intimacy found in various aspects of BDSM.  When allowing a person to know the deepest parts of you that you don't share with others, it is an amazing bonding experience.  I find that can be exactly how trust and vulnerability can be expressed by both the Domme and the submissive over time.  You really are sharing your inner selves with each other and that person knows more about you through that, which actually builds your intimacy level with one another.  The experiences that you have physically together are what help you obtain that level.

I highly agree with Madame4a about meeting people in the community.  While I can feel close to someone on a friendship level prior to meeting them in the physical world, engaging in play with someone is what brings intimacy to it for Me. 



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 9:17:43 AM)

I really do not mix romance and D/s. I tried that once and the disaster was epic. I am not averse to doing it again, but I am certainly not seeking it out.

I need to get to know how people think and feel, how they react, and that has to happen in real time. I can be FRIENDS with folks online, I can form emotional bonds, but D/s in the virtual world is a no.

I do not sissify. I appreciate the transgendered, but do not want anything but friendship.



DesFIP -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/13/2010 9:21:35 AM)

Some of us feel that we won't submit to anyone who doesn't respect us. If you're going to do things to me, then you need to value me for submitting to these things, not think less of me for allowing it.



LadyLou -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 4:31:46 AM)

D/s is my romance :) I love and am very much in love with my “submissive toy' – who is my life partner in a 2 party monogamous relationship. As for respect, he is about the only person on this planet whose opinion I actually value and listen to – I still feel the same after I have 'humiliated' (or as I prefer 'humbled') him, though I never degrade him in the true sense of the term, that energy is not part of our dynamic and nor would I want it. The more extreme and 'cruel' activities we partake of are part of a natural, and innately tender, bonding and loving experience; it's not something either of us has to compartmentalise. It's just a natural flow of energy in our relationship which naturally intertwines love, romance, fun, friendship, 'vanilla', BDSM, service, D/s, passion, amongst other things; but this is they way it works for us.

Some have a hard time reconciling love, romance, BDSM and D/s and that's fine, I personally cannot relate to those situations where D/s, friendship, romance, love, BDSM, tenderness, respect, sex and passion, etc are polar opposites and are compartmentalised. For me, this is who I am, and I am very lucky to have found someone to whom we mutually fit. I would feel very unfulfilled in a relationship where I only had aspects of the above and the thought of having a relationship that was just D/s, or just BDSM, or just romance, etc, seems empty and not part of the whole that I want (and have).

When I was searching, I specifically sought men with compatible submissive traits and similar ideas regarding BDSM, D/s et al – and that's the thing, we all throw these terms around with some expectation that those we communicate to will understand what we mean. As should be evident from this forum alone, these terms have differing meanings for each person and differing nuances within these specific meanings.

As far as 'vulnerability' is concerned, that's not necessarily what I would call it. I wasn't 'vulnerable' when I let my submissive “in” (not that there was a defining moment for that, it was a gradual thing), and I don't have any “guard” up with my submissive. If I felt I had to have some sort of 'guard' up, we wouldn't have gotten very far. I guess what I am saying, is that I don't really see it in those terms. Of course, there was the initial getting-to-know-you-and-figure-you-out phase, but as time goes on, and trust, familiarity and experience with each other builds, the 'guard' goes down. I don't really see that as an issue, but I guess there are those who have it, but for me, having to have a guard up would be pretty miserable for me and would frustrate my submissive.


quote:

ORIGINAL: CunLinguist

But as I search around CM I get a little discouraged. First of all, there seems to be a plethora of women out there who are looking to get paid to dominate. Some of these Dommes sound like very interesting individuals but it seems like they have to put up a “wall to the world” so to speak... unless of course you fork out a few hundred dollars for a new pair of shoes and then you're allowed half an hour of Skype time. I'm curious to know if most of these women keep their kink-related lives separate from their more vanilla-ish romantic life? Do many of you allow yourselves to fall in love with a submissive toy? Or do you only seek romantic trysts outside of “work”? Do you deliberately seek out dominant or submissive personalities in the guys you date?





This – why are you focusing on pay-to-play profiles? Yes CollarMe is proliferated with those for whom a financial motivation is paramount. This is a free site, and for those who run this kind of business it's a free way promote themselves, so they flock here. It's a pain for those men who don't want that when the noise to signal ratio seems particularly 'noisy', but it's a perspective bias - don't focus on it or you'll end up screwing yourself over. I see this time and time again on CollarMe - embittered men who fail to see past it and continually display the most negative of their personality traits in some sort of passive-aggressive helplessness. They go around this site offending a whole gender just because they haven't the gumption to put up better filters and stop focusing on the 'shiny' profiles. I'm not saying this is what you are doing at all lol! But this forum is littered with them, learn from their mistakes and retain an objective balance.



OttersSwim -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 6:30:52 AM)

I guess I am confused as to where and how the thread of forced fem or sissy play got involved in this topic.   I don't see it anywhere in the OPs profile, nor his postings.  There are one or two pics that have a femme theme, but again, not sure what it has to do with the question of romance and D/s....

And speaking of romance and D/s...

Yes, I believe in it and I sought it out in my relationship with my Lady.  I was pretty specific in my profile (not on this site) that I was looking for a long-term relationship, that I was new to kink but interested.  My story is somewhat rare as I found someone who was my perfect match living less than 20 minutes away from me, who was looking, who was poly, and open to me being trans (cue the jackpot lights and sparkly tiara and roses action!).

But I still believe it can happen - for anyone.  Even LadyH!  It is possible for a submissive guy to sweep a dominant female completely from her feet and carry her away into words like "romance", "long-term", "marriage", and even "forever".  Well, okay, maybe not "forever".  Most have been around that block at least once to realize that forever is not what it used to be.  [;)]    You just have to be the right match for "Her", whoever She is, whatever She is looking for...and you have to be looking for that too.

Being in Japan...well that is going to present some challenges.  It is going to be difficult to get the culture to open to you, pretty much no matter how much you integrate yourself.  Midori does a great talk called "Pink Japan" about BDSM in Japan where she talks about how the Japanese approach sex and BDSM.  Very enlightening.  But...you are not the only Gaijin in the country and there may be something going on among the ex-pat community there.

Good luck to you!  :)



LadyPact -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 9:25:08 AM)

Otters, it's in the original post.

quote:

  Are you able to sissify him, slap him around a bit, have him beg and grovel and then still look at him with a sense of respect and equanimity the next morning?


I don't know about anybody else, but I considered it the third question in the original.



MMercurial -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 9:49:36 AM)

I have a ton of respect for the men I sissify, humiliate and degrade. It's just a game. The problem is, since my faves have picked up their fetish tastes from childhood abuse, they don't seem to BELIEVE it when I clearly have a ton of respect for them afterwards. So far, they've all been very intelligent, successful businessmen who have overcome the sickening aspects of their childhood, although their romantic relationships with women tend to fail.

And their disbelief in my respect makes me unbelievably sad, because I think they are so incredible, and I admire them so much.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 9:59:31 AM)

I'm not a sissy player, but speaking in terms of ANYTHING my fetish playmate wants to do that I want to share---why would I NOT respect him or her? When we play we are showing a part of our deepest selves. That kind of acceptance is priceless.



Lockit -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 10:48:32 AM)

We are women first and foremost, that happen to be dominant. As all woman are, we are different, want different things and do different things as women and as dominants. Putting us into little titled boxes is a frustration many of us have with those who make an image in their minds and then fit us into or cast us out of that image or box. I fought long and hard to get out of boxes people tried to keep me in and I am sure not going back into the box for anyone or anything. I am an individual and although I may have similarities to others, I am who I want to be and few boxes would fit me. If you cannot see us as individuals, good luck with that with anything else you might want.

For me, I find it rather interesting in a not so good way, that people think that play time comes before the feelings, deeper emotions and sex. It is said that men wish to have sex to evolve into something and women prefer to evolve into sex after more emotional attachments. An in general thing that may fit some, but not all. To me it is backwards to jump into a kinky bed with someone before I share a great deal with them on an emotional level. I sure don't want to hope for something that may never happen. That is a pretty vulnerable place to be and exactly where a lot of men want a woman to be, as they promise all the wonders of a relationship, when their idea of a relationship amounts to some great weekend fun and last as long as she doesn't realize he really doesn't want more.

I remember the old saying... if you want a woman in your bed, tell her you love her. lol That let's take our time and see where it evolves... I want a long term relationship, but need to grow into it. Somehow that growing into it get gets stunted about the time they get what they want and feel the need to move on as the expectation of some growth is seen in her. I simply do not play that game. I don't jump into fulfillment of their body before I know whether they can fulfill my body and that means a connect in every other manner. It doesn't have to be a love of a lifetime before I play, but there damn well better be respect and no man respects me if all he wants to do is play and see if something evolves. I want more and will risk having nothing as I do it my way and only my way and if a man can't handle that, he can't handle me and won't get more than a bit of time wasted trying to convince me to evolve. lol

I don't do play toys. I don't put a man in a box and say... you are worth nothing more. I won't let them do it to me and I won't do it to them. Once there are matters of the heart, mental and emotional attachments... then and only then will there be any aspect of play or toyishness added to the mix. Not all men just want to play and it is one of those rare men I seek. A man who thinks of himself as a play toy typically has one thing on his mind and may have other issues of self assessment and expectation of me that is off base and will have to prove to me there is more in there. That wouldn't be easy, let me tell you! Many have tried... so far, zero have accomplished it.

I have often said, if he wants me to put something up that ass, he best be prepared that I first climb up that ass and see what's in there. Something like a box of chocolates (Forrest said life is like a box of chocolates and I say men are like a box of chocolates)... you never know whats inside until you eat one or pick out the bottom to see the cream filling. I will surely know what's in there before I go popping one into my mouth! (I hate cream filled candy and men who are nothing but cream.)

So far, you have heard a number of different answers, proving my point, we are all different.



crazyml -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 12:02:41 PM)

Hi there,

I'm cheating slightly by answering from a Dom perspective (rather than a Domme or Mistress) but to your question....


quote:

ORIGINAL: CunLinguist
Are you able to sissify him, slap him around a bit, have him beg and grovel and then still look at him with a sense of respect and equanimity the next morning?


In my case it the question might be "Are you able to make her crawl on all fours, eat from a bowl, spank her arse, have her beg and grovel and then still look at her with a sense of respect and equanimity the next morning?

For me the answer is Absolutely, Absolutely yes.

I cannot imagine enjoying making someone crawl on all fours, eat from a bowl etc unless she was precisely the kind of woman I'd relate to with a sense of respect and equanimity the following morning.




Voodali -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 12:50:52 PM)

Despite my hard, crunchy exterior ,by which I mean a profile designed to repel more people than it attracts, I am, at my core, a romantic.  What I have always wanted is a romantic D/s relationship.  What I have found were many many temporary play partners. This provides a nice sadism fix, and keeps life interesting, but what would be better than anything would be a relationship of mutual respect, where things like SM, humuiliation, D/s protocol and service were demonstrations of love and attraction.

And regarding vulnerability, if a boy can't stick around when I'm having a bad time, it isn't love.  People who love you remain with  you when you show weakness. (I'm not talking about abuse here, but more something along the lines of crying or being sick) Others will either disappear or attack.  Being dominant doesn't mean you're going to be strong 24/7, so having that expected of you wouldn't be realistic.  We're not cartoon villainesses (as much as I sometimes think it would be delightful), but real people with emotions.  A lot of subs forget that, or never considered it, it seems.



hausboy -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 1:35:02 PM)

I completely agree with so much being said here--while I wasn't quite thrilled with the tone or implications of the original OP, I really appreciate the responses generated.

When I met my first wife, she was curious about BDSM--she had read plenty of fiction, and didn't realize that there are people out there that live out their fantasies.  She was interested in first bottoming--particularly puppy training--and I happily obliged, and she impressed and amazed me with her bravery to ask for exactly what she desired, without shame.  What an outsider might have called humiliation--I can tell you that I could not have respected her more! 

While she said that I was teaching her so much--I learned so much more from her.  When she discovered her newfound interest in femdom and administering a good spanking, I knew that she fully respected me when I submitted to her discipline and humilation.

I have never seen submissives/bottoms/slaves as weak--to me, they are as strong and courageous as the men and women they respectfully serve.

{edited for typos--I tend to type too fast}



seekingOwnertoo -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 2:47:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CunLinguist

I'm curious about the intersection of romance and D/s. I'm just calling it “romance” for lack of a better term... could mean marriage, dating relationship, life-partner, etc.


Why not?

Personally, I don't like to play anymore ... for the sake of playing.

There has to be something on an intellectual and emotional level ... before play.

Otherwise ... why not just see a Pro Domme for fantasy satisfaction?

Heck ... seeing a Pro Domme is non-committal, easy and quick ... and thus ... play ....[:D] [:D] [:D] ... IMO

[sm=2cents.gif]

Edited ... to ensure I don't offend Pro Domme's ... because that was not my intent ...



Politesub53 -> RE: Romance and D/s (9/18/2010 5:21:20 PM)

Im a romantic and want it all. D/s and vanilla, flowing easily from one to the other naturally. I love to please, not just sexually but fully, from emotional needs to doing her bidding. One day ps, one day.



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